So i test drove a Defender today…. (2 Viewers)

[greynolds]

Hopefully some of the new Defender owners will provide 1 year reviews. That will be a good indicator as to how it’s holding up.

The TFL guys actually seem to be happy with their 3rd Defender (the first 2 had issues...) so far. They've had it for a while now without any issues AFAIK. Of course, the first one had a fatal engine failure after a few hundred miles. On the 2nd one, the dealer techs fatally destroyed a wiring harness while attempting to install a factory winch option (not a LR quality control fault, but kind of scary that installing a factory option had such a high level of risk).

Well said. I have always been torn about the Gwagon and it’s biggest fan. You’re right about the upkeep and getting parts. What I appreciate about my experiences with Merc is the fantastic service center and always getting a nice loaner. Porsche service center has been by far my favorite experience, especially when it comes to loaner rides. If they could offer a more off-road ordinated Cayenne, but getting rock sliders,wheels and real skid plates for it would be a custom job$$$$ I’m sure. As far as replacing my 200 with another comparable suv would just wait and see what the new LX will look like in the U.S.

The fantastic service centers are great, but that's a big part of the reason why service is so expensive . The local Merc dealer has a really nice coffee bar that's nice to hang out at for a shorter service visit and "free" loaner cars, but Toyota service is much less expensive. The Toyota dealer I bought from has a nice comfy waiting area, but doesn't do free loaners unless it's for something they screwed up. But that's mostly OK with me as I don't expect to need to go to the dealer nearly as often .

 

[Gun Runner 5]

The TFL guys actually seem to be happy with their 3rd Defender (the first 2 had issues...) so far. They've had it for a while now without any issues AFAIK. Of course, the first one had a fatal engine failure after a few hundred miles. On the 2nd one, the dealer techs fatally destroyed a wiring harness while attempting to install a factory winch option (not a LR quality control fault, but kind of scary that installing a factory option had such a high level of risk).


The fantastic service centers are great, but that's a big part of the reason why service is so expensive . The local Merc dealer has a really nice coffee bar that's nice to hang out at for a shorter service visit and "free" loaner cars, but Toyota service is much less expensive. The Toyota dealer I bought from has a nice comfy waiting area, but doesn't do free loaners unless it's for something they screwed up. But that's mostly OK with me as I don't expect to need to go to the dealer nearly as often .

Kinda like cracking 3 eggs for an omelet only to discover the first 2 are rotten. You still end up with an omelet but you never truly trust the egg supplier.

 

[gx2lc]

My vehicle prior to the 200 was a 2017 G63 that I had purchased new. It was fantastic in so many ways. It was fast (quite a bit faster than the 200), it handled well (better than the 200 on the highway), it had lots of room, it was comfortable for long drives, it had an iconic look that everyone recognizes, it had factory triple lockers, it had Apple CarPlay, and so on. But it was extremely expensive to maintain and not at Toyota's level of quality control and reliability. Brake parts were VERY expensive. Some parts were very difficult to get (it took 9 months for them to get warranty replacements for cracked tail light assemblies). I moved on because I was getting close to the end of my warranty and it was becoming clear that it was going to cost $$$ to keep it going if I kept it.

The recognizable thing led to a few amusing moments, but was mostly a good thing with lots of thumbs up and positive comments. I was actually surprised that I got very few negative comments over the years of owning G-wagons (I had 3, starting with a 2014 G550, 2016 G550, and finally the 2017 G63).

Shortly after I got the 2014, I took my mom shopping (being the good son that I am...). When we were walking back to the car, a couple in their 60's was getting out of their car parked near mine. The husband made a comment along the lines of "that's pretty cool" and the wife said something along the lines of "that's for someone who's overcompensating" (I don't recall exactly what she said), just as I was pressing the remote button to unlock it. She looked pretty embarrassed when she realized I heard what she had said. I just found it amusing as I didn't really care what other people thought - as long as I was happy with it, that's all that mattered.

The other amusing moment could have turned out ugly. My dad, brother, and I drove up to Newfoundland in one of my G-wagons (I don't remember which one it was). In a small town, there was a nice pier with some colorful boats and a few small icebergs that had come in, so we parked and got out to take some pictures. About that time, we noticed some locals giving us a bit of a dirty look, which was very uncharacteristic for folks up in Newfoundland (they're always incredibly friendly). A few minutes later, one of them came over to welcome us and told us they initially thought we were government inspectors coming to give them a hassle when they saw the G-wagon. Once they figured out we were just tourists, all was fine.

Based on owning both, cargo space seems to be pretty comparable overall, but the distribution of the dimensions is definitely somewhat different, so that would definitely have an impact on the ability to sleep inside with a pet and so forth. The new G-wagons (2019+), however, have less cargo space than the older G-wagons (201. They made them longer overall, but sacrificed some cargo space to give the rear seats more legroom. When the new model first came out, I was debating about trading in for a new one, so I took a tape measure to a new one that had come in at the local dealership. The space above the wheel wells on the new models is also taken up by things like a subwoofer. All in all, the new model loses about 15% of cargo space based on the measurements I took. The MSRP also shot through the roof - a comparably configured G63 to my 2017 is now about $20-30K more than my 2017 was. The 2017 was pretty much at the limit of what I was comfortable paying, so the price increase was too much.

The new G63 is much faster than my 2017 was and the new G550 is just about as fast as my 2017 G63 was, so a new G550 would probably be plenty fast if you do decide to go with a new G-wagon at some point.

Regarding electric, I think it's going to take quite a bit more than 2-3 years to get the charging infrastructure to the point where it needs to be for electric to really take off. The current typical range of 200-300 miles just isn't enough - I think they need to get to 500 miles. On a long trip, it just isn't practical to drive 200 miles out of 500 on a long driving day and then have to stop for a couple of hours to charge the battery back up (if you can even find a charger). A range of 500 miles would probably be enough for any 1 driving day for me and it could then charge up at the hotel overnight. On our trips, we often have 1 long driving day on each end of the trip (MA to VA, for example) and then the days in the middle are typically much less driving and focused on enjoying scenery, hiking, scenic train rides, etc.

Getting back to cargo space for a moment, something I really wish manufacturers would do with SUVs is make the 2nd and 3rd row seats easily removable like they often do with mini vans. In both the LC and the G-wagon, when you fold the 2nd rows seats forward, you lose a LOT of cargo space to those seats. If they had quick release mechanisms like in mini vans, you could get the seats completely out of the way and gain quite a bit of usable cargo space. It's kind of a pain to unbolt seats to remove them temporarily. In the G-wagon, putting the rear seat back in was difficult because there was an assist strut or spring that required a special tool to reattach properly. I really don't get why no SUV, to my knowledge, has ever had this feature.

thanks for telling the stories and I had no idea the new G63 has LESS cargo space! They made it longer and wider for crying out loud! I would prob get the oldest CPO one I can that has CarPlay which probably is the 2017 with the MBenz eq of bumper to bumper extended warranty.

QQ: what do you do if there is an 8 month delay for parts?! Just drive a loaner till they’re in?!

I agree on electric I’m just trusting Elon and co to deliver the 500 mile range tri motor cyber truck in the next year or two. We’ll see…at $70k looks aside if that thing can deliver..it’s a good deal. But I buy 3 years after a model starts to ensure I have an understanding of reliability and the first gen issues are sorting out. This means I’m looking at 3-5 years with the LC before I might consider moving on.

The left side of my brain also reminds the right that the Gwagon or 4D Bronco don’t solve for my core use case of something I can use to tote my family to remote places and back without issue.

 

[greynolds]

thanks for telling the stories and I had no idea the new G63 has LESS cargo space! They made it longer and wider for crying out loud! I would prob get the oldest CPO one I can that has CarPlay which probably is the 2017 with the MBenz eq of bumper to bumper extended warranty.

Yeah, I think 2017 G-wagons were the first to have CarPlay. But it wasn't wireless FYI and wireless is a game changer for making it usable. There are aftermarket gizmos that can convert wired CarPlay to wireless though, so that's an option if you were to end up going with a G-wagon.

QQ: what do you do if there is an 8 month delay for parts?! Just drive a loaner till they’re in?!

Fortunately, the car was driveable in this case. Technically, cracked tail lights should have failed MA state inspection, but whoever did the inspection didn't notice. But yeah, I would think they would have had to provide me with a loaner in a case like that; I don't see how they could have gotten around it on something that's under warranty.

 

[Pura Vida]

If you want to be bold, Ineos Grenadier test mule

I want that car to be good, but it is certainly a possibility it turns out worse than the new defender in terms of quality control

It is basically targeted towards people like us, but you have to remember is a new car from a company that has never manufactured a car before. Although, at the moment they are currently manufacturing the smart car in order to get the hang of car manufacturing. I don’t know if that says anything, never driven a smart car.

it checks all the boxes, but at the same time, every car checks all the boxes when word only comes from the manufacturer. I would wait to watch a Doug Demuro car review before I buy it.

 

[04UZJ100]

If you want to be bold, Ineos Grenadier test mule

I want that car to be good, but it is certainly a possibility it turns out worse than the new defender in terms of quality control

It is basically targeted towards people like us, but you have to remember is a new car from a company that has never manufactured a car before. Although, at the moment they are currently manufacturing the smart car in order to get the hang of car manufacturing. I don’t know if that says anything, never driven a smart car.

it checks all the boxes, but at the same time, every car checks all the boxes when word only comes from the manufacturer. I would wait to watch a Doug Demuro car review before I buy it.

A Doug Demuro review is a joke, right? His video reviews are wordy surface level garbage.

 

[greynolds]

If you want to be bold, Ineos Grenadier test mule

I want that car to be good, but it is certainly a possibility it turns out worse than the new defender in terms of quality control

It is basically targeted towards people like us, but you have to remember is a new car from a company that has never manufactured a car before. Although, at the moment they are currently manufacturing the smart car in order to get the hang of car manufacturing. I don’t know if that says anything, never driven a smart car.

it checks all the boxes, but at the same time, every car checks all the boxes when word only comes from the manufacturer. I would wait to watch a Doug Demuro car review before I buy it.

There's a lot to like about the Ineos, but there's no way I would buy one until they've established themselves. Same thing with Rivian. I wouldn't typically be inclined to buy the first model year of an all new Toyota and they know what they're doing usually .

 

[Madtiger]

.

A Doug Demuro review is a joke, right? His video reviews are wordy surface level garbage.

I find his video quite entertaining. And for most part, similar to my views.

 

[Pura Vida]

A Doug Demuro review is a joke, right? His video reviews are wordy surface level garbage.

He shows details and a lot of different aspects of the car, and then drives them and gives a driving impression. I don’t see many other people going in depth about what each button or cubby or whatever does. I feel those are important things to know if I am looking at a car. You don’t think about the tiny details until you have already bought the vehicle usually. His videos seem to be a lot more informative than other people’s reviews in my opinion.

 

[Madtiger]

He shows details and a lot of different aspects of the car, and then drives them and gives a driving impression. I don’t see many other people going in depth about what each button or cubby or whatever does. I feel those are important things to know if I am looking at a car. You don’t think about the tiny details until you have already bought the vehicle usually. His videos seem to be a lot more informative than other people’s reviews in my opinion.

And don’t forget…he actually takes off-roaders off-road! He took LC200 off-road…great video!

 

[Tex68w]

He's entertaining yet a tad obnoxious, but I do appreciate his tendency to inspect every nook and cranny to find hidden gems. I find him wildly wowed by the most trivial stuff and his rating systems seem to be skewed towards these meaningless trinkets. I do not find his opinion to be of any real value beyond pure entertainment.

 

[Chewbacca]

So an Nissan Armada or Infiniti QX80 would probably be what I would go with. I'm a bit uneasy about Nissan's future and quality control wouldn't be as good as Toyota, but much better than Land Rover. I had an Armada rental for 2 weeks a few years ago on a vacation in Colorado and really enjoyed it. It was very comfortable, handled well, had plenty of power, and had lots of cargo space. The infotainment system was terrible, but they seem to have addressed that and added CarPlay, so that wouldn't be an issue now. I honestly don't need something that's an absolute beast off road, so the fact that the USA spec Armada (vs an Austraila spec Patrol) is less capable offroad than a LC really wouldn't be a huge problem for me. When I bought the LC about a year ago, I seriously considered an Armada, but I was just too concerned about the uncertainty with Nissan that I decided against it.

We had a QX80 prior to getting our 200. Quality was great. Engine has noticeably more power than the LC, especially in the mountains where I am.

The downsides were the terrible infotainment center (ours was a 2017), hated that the 3rd row didn't stow flat so our dogs had to lie on an incline back there, and like you say, it's not anywhere near the LC when it comes to going off pavement. It was good enough to do Engineer Pass without incident, though.

Overall it was a good car, just some things irritated me about it. Really the only thing I miss about that truck was the engine.

 

[Chewbacca]

If you like the Armada and QX80, their natural competitor is more aligned to the Sequoia, albeit dated in its current form. All are fully independent suspensions. As well as being larger full size SUVs with the Armada/QX80 sisters at 121.1" wheelbase, versus Sequoia at 122". 200-series is 112.2".

We drove a Sequoia before getting the QX80 a few years ago. I was all but set on getting one. The ride was so bad that we only drove it for maybe 2 minutes before turning around and taking it back to the dealership. I have heard that the Platinums have a better ride (we drove a Limited because they didn't have any Platinums on the lot), but it was just awful.

 

[Pura Vida]

He's entertaining yet a tad obnoxious, but I do appreciate his tendency to inspect every nook and cranny to find hidden gems. I find him wildly wowed by the most trivial stuff and his rating systems seem to be skewed towards these meaningless trinkets. I do not find his opinion to be of any real value beyond pure entertainment.

Yea, his rating system is a bit odd but I never really watch that part much anyway. I usually stop after he drives the car. I would never buy a car after only looking at 1 review anyway, but I would definitely watch a Doug demuro video first so that I know what to look for in the other reviews. I find them entertaining and pretty informative. Shows a side to the car almost nobody else shows

 

[nautiquelover]

We drove a Sequoia before getting the QX80 a few years ago. I was all but set on getting one. The ride was so bad that we only drove it for maybe 2 minutes before turning around and taking it back to the dealership. I have heard that the Platinums have a better ride (we drove a Limited because they didn't have any Platinums on the lot), but it was just awful.

I test drove a Limited at one dealer because that's all they had in stock and thought it rode just ok. It wasn't as comfortable as I thought it would be. When I knew it was what I wanted, I made sure to order a platinum and have been thrilled ever since. Wayyyyy better ride and the shocks are adjustable so on windy mountain roads you can have less body lean and when cruising everywhere else, the suspension can be super soft.

 

[Chewbacca]

I test drove a Limited at one dealer because that's all they had in stock and thought it rode just ok. It wasn't as comfortable as I thought it would be. When I knew it was what I wanted, I made sure to order a platinum and have been thrilled ever since. Wayyyyy better ride and the shocks are adjustable so on windy mountain roads you can have less body lean and when cruising everywhere else, the suspension can be super soft.

Meh, I'm more than happy with the 200. Not going to be in the market for another LC sized vehicle for a while. Wife is wanting an A6 Allroad, though. Hope I can hold her off for a while.

 

[MRego]

Bumping up this thread to check if anybody has updates on how Defenders are holding up.

Am I crazy to consider putting an order for a base model (yes, 4 cylinder+steelies+all the off-road goodies+automatic cruise control). This configuration is circa $62k. I test drove a 4cyl and (although light years from the LC power) it seemed pretty adequate with the turbo. LR says it would take about 8 to 10 months for the car to arrive, which is fine by me. Not in a hurry and I will die before paying for any of these mark ups and crazy pre-owned prices going on today. By then I could sell the LC for waaaay more than I paid and even have a lower car payment with a brand new car (under warranty - I know - Land Rover).

I love my LC, but have to admit the videos I saw of the Defender in some rock crawling situations were pretty impressive. Mainly because of the tremendous ground clearance the air suspension gives you. To mimic that in the LC, my only choice is going the full lift route and I am not a very big fan of that. The only other reason for me to consider the Defender is the full ACC that brings the car to stop and go in traffic jams (no, I am not Doug).

 

[Madtiger]

Bumping up this thread to check if anybody has updates on how Defenders are holding up.

Am I crazy to consider putting an order for a base model (yes, 4 cylinder+steelies+all the off-road goodies+automatic cruise control). This configuration is circa $62k. I test drove a 4cyl and (although light years from the LC power) it seemed pretty adequate with the turbo. LR says it would take about 8 to 10 months for the car to arrive, which is fine by me. Not in a hurry and I will die before paying for any of these mark ups and crazy pre-owned prices going on today. By then I could sell the LC for waaaay more than I paid and even have a lower car payment with a brand new car (under warranty - I know - Land Rover).

I love my LC, but have to admit the videos I saw of the Defender in some rock crawling situations were pretty impressive. Mainly because of the tremendous ground clearance the air suspension gives you. To mimic that in the LC, my only choice is going the full lift route and I am not a very big fan of that. The only other reason for me to consider the Defender is the full ACC that brings the car to stop and go in traffic jams (no, I am not Doug).

My neighbor just got a Defender. Beautiful. Then one day, i don’t see it for 1.5 weeks…and he was driving a dealer LR for that time. I wonder what happened….

 

[greynolds]

Bumping up this thread to check if anybody has updates on how Defenders are holding up.

Am I crazy to consider putting an order for a base model (yes, 4 cylinder+steelies+all the off-road goodies+automatic cruise control). This configuration is circa $62k. I test drove a 4cyl and (although light years from the LC power) it seemed pretty adequate with the turbo. LR says it would take about 8 to 10 months for the car to arrive, which is fine by me. Not in a hurry and I will die before paying for any of these mark ups and crazy pre-owned prices going on today. By then I could sell the LC for waaaay more than I paid and even have a lower car payment with a brand new car (under warranty - I know - Land Rover).

I love my LC, but have to admit the videos I saw of the Defender in some rock crawling situations were pretty impressive. Mainly because of the tremendous ground clearance the air suspension gives you. To mimic that in the LC, my only choice is going the full lift route and I am not a very big fan of that. The only other reason for me to consider the Defender is the full ACC that brings the car to stop and go in traffic jams (no, I am not Doug).

Keep in mind that in the high suspension modes, the Defender will give a pretty terrible ride. The TFL guys have mentioned this a number of times. If you switch from a Land Cruiser to a Defender, be prepared for a lot more visits to the dealer. I haven't heard anything that suggests that Land Rover's "quality control" has improved in recent years. My 2014 Range Rover came with some pretty baffling issues from the factory. At least 1 was something the dealer should have noticed and fixed when they received the vehicle before I took delivery (the hood wasn't latching shut).

 

[greynolds]

My neighbor just got a Defender. Beautiful. Then one day, i don’t see it for 1.5 weeks…and he was driving a dealer LR for that time. I wonder what happened….

It's a Land Rover thing, (as a Land Cruiser owner) you wouldn't understand...

If Land Rover could finally figure out what the heck quality control is, I would buy a Defender without having to give it much thought. The infotainment system is apparently a bit difficult to use, but it's not like the infotainment system in our LC's is great. But other than that and the potential quality control nightmares, Land Rover makes a fantastic product.