I seriously doubt it will take 20 years for these things to fall apart.
So i test drove a Defender today….
- Thread starter stonepa
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I seriously doubt it will take 20 years for these things to fall apart.
I am sure that it was a typo…20 days.
I was looking hard at a new G-Wagon coming from an Audi A8 - I like German luxury cars. But, DAMN, I can buy LC oil filters for less than $3 in bulk. The Toyota dealer covers RSM through 30,000 (I think?) and in between oil changes are cheap. Even replacement HE BBS wheels are less than $500ea. I give the G-Wagon the edge on cool factor, but I would not take it where I've already taken my LC. It's kind of liberating.
Also looked at the Defender, but I was uneasy about the reliability. Maybe once they are all sorted I'll go back and have a look at adding a 90, but for now I sleep well when on road trips.
greynolds
SILVER Star
Yeah, I just double checked my receipts and the brake job on the G63 was just over $2200 and that was with employee pricing on the parts (I had become good buddies with one of the service advisors). That was for new front/rear pads and new front rotors IIRC. Supposedly the rotors couldn't be reused. Pretty sure a comparable brake job on the LC should be a lot less than that, even without a buddy discount. The "cool" factor was definitely higher on the G-Wagon and the thing was a blast to drive - with about 550HP and a much sportier suspension despite having solid axles front and rear, the thing handled much more like a sports car than the LC does. It really was a tough decision to give it up once I had it, but I ultimately decided it was going to be an ongoing financial burden I didn't want to deal with and I don't have THAT good of an income where it's just pocket change like it is for the "typical" G-wagon owner.
After seeing some of the new Defender reviews and having owned a 2014 Range Rover briefly, I just wouldn't consider them period. I think several of the Land Rover models have a lot going for them and Land Rover actually does quite a few things really well, but the reliability and quality control are so bad that they just can't be ignored. Unless Land Rover turns things around on those 2 points, I just can't see myself ever buying another one.
Apparently it’s 20 minutes. It breaks down on the ride home from the dealer.
bloc
SILVER Star
Will that ever really happen?
bloc
SILVER Star
Most American consumers are too used to what junk costs to buy.
greynolds
SILVER Star
Marketing and packaging can go a looooong way.
The Land Cruiser is kind of weird for Toyota in the USA because it's quite a bit more expensive than pretty much anything else they sell and they only bring a pretty much fully loaded model in. That's presumably the case in other countries as well, for the highest spec Land Cruisers. But other countries get less luxurious versions that would be relatively less expensive and that probably helps to bring people into the dealership looking for one. Toyota probably has some pretty smart people on staff to figure this stuff out, but I do wonder if they could boost Land Cruiser sales significantly in the USA if they brought less expensive trim levels in. They have to factor in what their total production capacity is as well - they probably don't have the capacity to build another 50 thousand (to pick a number) in the same plant and building them elsewhere might negatively impact quality or perceived quality.
Very true. I almost feel like the LC is lost on US buyers because the Sequoia exists. Bigger and less $ obviously means more value to most Yanks or something
21 but close enough...
Update: We’ve Owned Our Land Rover Defender For About 3 Weeks, And It’s Been Broken Almost The Whole Time
After three weeks of ownership, our 2020 Land Rover Defender has spent more time at the dealer for repairs than it has at our HQ - here's what is going on.
tflcar.com
bloc
SILVER Star
Reduce (profitable) high trim levels, and you cut into (profitable) high trim (profitable) 4runner and sequoia sales.
Not selling lower trim levels is a conscious business decision here, and the fact that the base of the vehicle is so high quality that only so much of the price can be cut out, is a major factor in that decision.
But I’m taking the bait. This has been debated ad-nauseum here.
At the end of the day, not enough Americans want to pay what it costs to make a LandCruiser worth selling at a Toyota dealership. Lexus has an advantage in that equation, and they will get the 300.
greynolds
SILVER Star
I wasn’t baiting anybody and I do get it. But at the same time, when Toyota seems to be complaining that not enough people buy the Land Cruiser here, it really isn’t difficult to figure out some of the reasons why. At the end of the day, it’s all a balancing act and ultimately about making the most money they can. I suspect they do know what they’re doing even if we don’t like it.
bloc
SILVER Star
Didn't mean to come across that way, it is the bait of the conversation in general.
Pura Vida
What an absolute noob
Also, the land cruiser is not flashy at all. It just looks like a normal SUV. Unless you know what it is, it isn’t impressive. The buyers are people who want a nice car without it looking like they have a nice car. That’s a small amount of buyers, however those buyers are very loyal. Lexus and Mercedes and Land Rover have that name value for the flash, but nobody looks at a Toyota and sees a luxury vehicle. They see a base model Camry they got at a used lot for their 16 year old. Most people don’t understand what it is, and even if they did, it wouldn’t really bring in the buyers. That’s why the LX sells, and the LC doesn’t. Lexus has that “wow” factor even though they are very similar cars
Yep, the only vehicle I consider being anywhere near what the LC 200 has to offer is the Merc G wagon, however build quality is still a concern compared to buying a vehicle Made in Japan, let alone the Toyota Aichi factory turning out the LC.And there is no way I’ll be replacing my 200 with one of those at any point. I like the styling but the choice of interior plastics is weird, the 6 cylinder engine is harsh and idles roughly, the interior sound deadening is poor, the roof rails look like they would be difficult to use, the electronic shift knob is just plain annoying, and you have to hit way too many buttons/screens to do simple things. Definitely not for me. I guess my 200 will have to do for another decade.
So you mentioned G-wagen. Its actually assembled by Magna Steyr, in Graz. Magna Steyr also assembles the Supra for Toyota/BMW....also in Graz. Having a vehicle assembled by Magna, build quality rivals Aichi and probably has more automation. I really don't think build quality should be of any concern, not even a single bit. This isn't a Benz SUV/C-class out of their Alabama plant.
If it was a GLS or a GLE, then yeah...no thanks.
I had several mechanical issues with my old 2004 G-wagen (bought new). Hopefully my current LC will do better in that.
I’ve owned 4 Land Rovers (1963 & 1969 Series 2A’s, 1971 Series lll, and a 1995 D-90 ) and for the most part, Land Rover did “simple” quite well. What they fail at is “complicated” which unfortunately includes all of their newer offerings.
greynolds
SILVER Star
Having owned 3 new G-wagons, a 2014 G550, 2016 G550, and 2017 G63, I would say that the build quality and reliability were probably better than average for Mercedes, but definitely not to the level of the Land Cruiser. In case people are wondering, I traded in the 2014 to get the newer engine, CarPlay, and a few other things I wanted (different color combo, etc.) and I traded the 2016 in for the G63 because I got a really good deal and found the G63 handled FAR better on the highway. The AMG suspension made a huge difference in driving characteristics. Resale value was great, so these moves didn’t cost me much. When I traded the G63 in for the LC, I felt like I did quite well on the trade in. G-wagons definitely have very good resale values.
I’ve still been following the G-wagon forums and feedback on the all new 2019+ G-wagons hasn’t been as good so far. They definitely have some issues they need to sort out still. There have been issues with the windshields and weird cabin pressure issues, as well as some electronic and mechanical issues. Nothing too bad, but enough issues that I wouldn’t want one until they sort those issues out.
