Pura Vida
What an absolute noob
If you buy a defender, make sure to get 2 so that you have something to drive while the other one is in the shop
So i test drove a Defender today….
- Thread starter stonepa
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I’m curious did your 2016 LC actually die? 5 years seems a little soon no?
bloc
SILVER Star
At the failure rate we are seeing you might need 3 to be really sure.
Most welcome - I was sending some info along to a friend about the Armada (he's looking to build up something to tag along on some trips) so I thought I would post that up for anyone who is thinking about a Y62.
Yes, the LX version of the LC300 is supposed to come over, but I will feel better when I see an order guide. As for the extra $ to purchase and cut away some front moldings for clearance... I've spent more money more questionable pursuits over the years so
we will see how it looks when it arrives.As for the Armada, if you're going to beat up on it off road, hands down, they make a ton of sense. They are far cheaper in the U.S. than any LC200, year to year and comparing similar miles, even if you are importing parts from Australia (with a caveat on you have to have a connection there, and or, your connection has to be able to actually get the parts to be able to ship to you
). I tried to help a friend build up a CPO'd Armada SV last year - he finally gave up on parts from down under due to shipping delays and just threw 35's on it (no BMC or fussing with caster to make it fit) and a rough skid over the oil pan. While it does not have a ton of wheel travel at either end, it has decent clearance on the 35's and power for days to just plow through stuff. On a lot of trails in the States I think you would run out of room to squeeze the body through tight spots before you run out of capability on a well driven Y62 with decent tires.
Markuson
SILVER Star
On the other hand… I distinctly recall my own opinion when the 200 first came out.
-I really didnt like its looks. At all. It really did closely resemble the Highlander that was out at the same time, and from a distance, I actually got them mixed up more than once.
BUT… The 200 grew on me, and now I think its amazing. Maybe not in stock firm, but built I like them.
I was looking at the Bronco the other day, and if you ignore its interesting grill/front end…its a really boring shape. So is the Defender if you ignore its little doodads here and there and its many large labels telling you its a “Defender.”
The 300 looks boxy and dull. Agree. But the 200 looked like a puffed up toad when it came out.
So who knows… Clearly I have no idea yet. heheh
bloc
SILVER Star
Defender... of the tow truck industry?
I really think this hit the nail on the head. Buying JLR and RR is a emotional-driven decision and this is entirely marketing driven along with the upscale image that RR has towards royalty and the wealthy elite. The budget for marketing for RR and the Defender is far far higher than that with the Land Cruiser. I find this is the same case with the Ford F-150 and the gaudy marketing that is done day in day out. 99% of people take these commercials and extremely biased reviews (even independent reviewers, as they won't actually speak bad about the product so they keep getting test vehicles and product launch invites), and the population can't distinguish that its actually a poor product long-term. Land Rovers sell like hotcakes in the north east because of the image it presents (wealthy estate Barbour and Wellington wearing white aristocrat). If everyone bought cars based on logic and not emotion, everyone would all be driving Toyotas, Hondas, and Kia/Hyundais.
Hell, Land Cruisers sell themselves. They sell them through the countries national Toyota distributor by the tens of thousands every year overseas and also fleet sales. Toyota LCs testament towards durability and quality is the marketing that it does to sell itself. And to some, and many other here on Mud, the great logic behind them ends up becoming the emotional-driven decision to get these.
Will I be picking up a Defender? Yes, I will be when they're 50-60%+ depreciated very soon. I will certainly rag on it too. Sure they aren't reliable but I actually want to wrench and work on them. I nerd out over design and engineering so my curiosity in the Defender is high with what is it made of. First thing I'm going to pick up is the GAP diagnostic tool for Land Rovers. My only exposure into Land Rover is when a very good friend lent me their 2016 Range Rover Sport that was their Tahoe ski-house vehicle for a week when I was there. It felt bland and emotion-less personally to me. Anyways, I'm excited to pick up a used Defender so I can make the decision personally if these are actually POS or if they're worth at least some of their weight. I'm more excited to be taking failed parts off and seeing how they failed, including the complex computer system they've got.
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Markuson
SILVER Star
That’s a fascinating hobby for sure. Buying stuff that breaks a lot so you can figure out their mistakes.
Honest suggestion for you and perhaps your dream job:
-Go work for LR!! They make stuff that breaks, and they desperately need someone like you who loves to figure out WHY!
Only problem is… If you succeed, and they figure it out as a result…you’ll be out of a job! lol…
No! The 2016 was doing great. But it is such a great vehicle for me I wanted to extend the period of time that I can drive a Land Cruiser. The 2021 I now have is almost identical to the 2016 I had along with the HE refinements. And it was essentially the last, new LC in Central Oregon. Nothing more than resetting the clock/miles.
An interesting side point. The difference in $ between what I paid for the 2014 Land Rover LR4 (new) and what I got back as a trade-in was almost the same as the difference between what I paid for my 2016 LC (new) and what I traded it in for. But for that nearly the same amount of money I got 2 years and 55K miles out of the LR4 whereas I got 5 years and 108K miles out of the Land Cruiser.
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CharlieS
GOLD Star
If I was just going to be commuting in safe neighborhoods always in cell range with a tow truck readily available, and a readily available backup vehicle, I could see how living with a vehicle with questionable reliability might be tolerable. Might. Inconvenience factor aside. Maybe. But to have a vehicle on the trail where you very well could be breaking down in the middle of nowhere, there is a strong likelihood of poor to no cell service, you are likely inconveniencing others you are driving with, and getting out safely is a non-trivial matter. No thank you. Hard pass.
The irony is all of these issues where already known before they started selling to the public. The gave them to RR enthusiasts for review and they all came back saying WTF?! It's broke already. I used to be a fan boi or RR but I switched to LC. Tired of all the issues and breakdowns. It looks like it's only getting worse. They do not market them any more for folks that take them off road. They market them to people that want to look like they go off road and have a perfect manicured beard and want the luxury to go with an image. Nothing wrong with that it's marketing for a sale. Every company does it. Aftermarket parts companies won't even go near them. Liability. They are nothing more than a super model, male or female. Great looking but that's it. Don't attempt a conversation. I don't feel bad for the company. Who owns them now anyway. They sell the brand every 5 years so it's not like it's the original owners? Dig your own grave. It's only a matter of time till people stop buying them because they are so unreliable. If they break down 2x in the first year or more how do you justify that to the consumer? If I bought a lawnmower that broke down at this rate I would get rid of it and never buy that brand again warranty be damned. And that's my rant.
.....and that “Jeep wave” thing.
I dont even like the styling and aesthetics of the new Defender. The new Defender is doing a great job of defending its reputation of poor reliability. Its just one big box of garbage in my opinion.
On the other hand, the new Bronco.... I love everything about it. Except, the Auto Start/stop, "crash bars", TPMS, GPS tracking, the "connected" aspect of it, basically, all types of things that are being forced to be standard on ALL new vehicles. Ive come to the conclusion that I probably wont ever like ANY new car, and will just keep enjoying "old" cars.
So I guess Im not a good judge of any new model. I doubt I would have ever even wanted a 300 Series LC if there was one offered in the US.
On the other hand, the new Bronco.... I love everything about it. Except, the Auto Start/stop, "crash bars", TPMS, GPS tracking, the "connected" aspect of it, basically, all types of things that are being forced to be standard on ALL new vehicles. Ive come to the conclusion that I probably wont ever like ANY new car, and will just keep enjoying "old" cars.
So I guess Im not a good judge of any new model. I doubt I would have ever even wanted a 300 Series LC if there was one offered in the US.
greynolds
SILVER Star
I like the styling of the new Defender well enough (and have seen a few out in the wild around town), except that it looks more like what should have been the next Discovery rather than a Defender replacement to me. I don't like the look of the current Discovery at all.
That's hilarious.
JLR is owned by Tata Motors of India now. They introduced the economical "Tata Nano" to India. Their highest end SUV sold today starts at ~$20k USD. The lowest end car starts at just under $7k USD. All of which are a far cry from Jaguar/Land Rover prices. So anyone who expects high quality from a notoriously unreliable brand which was sold to a company who has zero understanding of any market outside of India is absolutely insane.
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Tata Motors official website for passenger cars in India. Explore the latest cars and SUVs by Tata Motors, specifications, colors & features. Book a test drive today.
The Nano, btw, is a huge step up from the 2-cycle auto-rickshaws that are all over India, and which apparently can be had off ebay for about $100.
Bajaj Auto Taxi Tuk Tuk 3 Wheeler Soft Yellow Top Roof Canopy Hood Cover | eBay
It is a Soft Canopy Top in yellow color. Color : Yellow.
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I've ridden in them in Bangalore. Honestly though once you've been in any vehicle in India all of the honking that NYC cab drivers do makes total sense. Driving is absolutely INSANE there.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
They’re also building to a price point for the market. Most people can’t afford an expensive vehicle, and large cars are the exception. (I’ve also been to Bangalore, a half dozen times or so)
One of my staff had a Toyota Fortuner (slightly smaller than a 4Runner), which was one of the larger vehicles on the road and they run about 30 lakh give or take. I think that is about $40k usd. Doesn’t sound like much until you look at what people are paid. That might be twice the annual salary of a skilled knowledge worker.
I think Tata is a lot like Mitsubishi, a huge conglomerate that has their hands in a lot of industries. I don’t think that their ownership of JLR, or the fact that one of their subsidiaries makes cheap cars should impact of the expectations people should have for the quality of Land Rover Defenders.
The British have always done a shoddy job of building rovers all on their own. Most cars for that matter, but that’s a rant for another day.
One of my staff had a Toyota Fortuner (slightly smaller than a 4Runner), which was one of the larger vehicles on the road and they run about 30 lakh give or take. I think that is about $40k usd. Doesn’t sound like much until you look at what people are paid. That might be twice the annual salary of a skilled knowledge worker.
I think Tata is a lot like Mitsubishi, a huge conglomerate that has their hands in a lot of industries. I don’t think that their ownership of JLR, or the fact that one of their subsidiaries makes cheap cars should impact of the expectations people should have for the quality of Land Rover Defenders.
The British have always done a shoddy job of building rovers all on their own. Most cars for that matter, but that’s a rant for another day.
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I am going to provide my .02 even though it wasn't requested.... I had a new defender that was lemon lawed and after months of issues it was finally bought back by JLR. The Defenders are nice to drive and capable cars but I would wait another two years before pulling the trigger as there are many teething problems. I had 17 miles on the clock and electrical gremlins were rampant-- even worse the dealer stated "its a land rover they are not perfect"
Also I am now in a 200 series cruiser....
Also I am now in a 200 series cruiser....
CharlieS
GOLD Star
Your screen name is perfect given that background!
