So i test drove a Defender today….

[CharlieS]

A classic FJ-40 style body on a modern platform... So more or less what Mercedes has done with the G-Wagon. While I appreciate what they attempted to do with the FJ Cruiser, I really didn't like the look of the body style at all.

Yes!! ^this. Maybe too much (or too little) coffee for me today, but a FJ40-esque rugged body on a land cruiser (quality!) chassis, at a Jeep Rubicon price point. Yeah I know, it probably wouldn't work. There is a reason I'm not in marketing - it would probably be a flop. But it would be sooooo cool if they did it. Yeah, the FJ Cruiser didn't do it for me either. right idea, wrong body design (plus the rear and side visibility was the worst of any vehicle I've driven).

 

[Pura Vida]

Same here. Wouldn't it be amazing if all of the otherwise good options had something close to the reliability and quality control of Toyota. If that were the case, I suspect quite a few here would actually end up picking something other than a LC because these 2 factors (reliability and quality control) overrode other priorities. Honda obviously does really well on these 2 priorities, but doesn't exactly have an option that would otherwise fit what most of us are looking for.

After having a recent Armada as a rental a few years ago on a trip, I seriously considered one (or the sister QX80) when I bought the LC, but reliability and quality control concerns as well as Nissan's questionable short/long term viability in the USA removed it from the list. It wouldn't be quite as rugged off road as the LC, but if I'm being 100% honest, that really wouldn't be a problem for my intended use. Overall, we enjoyed having it as the rental on our vacation - it handled well (for what it is), had plenty of power, and was very comfortable on the long driving days. I probably could have gotten a much more significant discount off of MSRP on an Armada too, which would have been a nice cost savings.

The new generation armada is a rebranded patrol. Honestly a good option in the future in case you want a new overlander luxury car, since Toyota is pulling the LC in USA.

I have seen a lot of Australian overlanders use patrols, and they are very popular in the UAE too. Apply a bull bar and a 2 inch lift and you are ready for any terrain

 

[Pura Vida]

A classic FJ-40 style body on a modern platform... So more or less what Mercedes has done with the G-Wagon. While I appreciate what they attempted to do with the FJ Cruiser, I really didn't like the look of the body style at all.

A restored and imported 70 seems like what you want. Facelift maybe? Restored ones go cheaper than a 200 so.....

 

[greynolds]

A restored and imported 70 seems like what you want. Facelift maybe? Restored ones go cheaper than a 200 so.....

We’re discussing brand new options that the manufacturer would sell at their dealership.

 

[Pura Vida]

We’re discussing brand new options that the manufacturer would sell at their dealership.

Yea, the 70 series is still new in some markets, but no way they would sell new ones in USA. The closes I could see is MAYBE an FJ cruiser 2 or something

 

[greynolds]

The new generation armada is a rebranded patrol. Honestly a good option in the future in case you want a new overlander luxury car, since Toyota is pulling the LC in USA.

I have seen a lot of Australian overlanders use patrols, and they are very popular in the UAE too. Apply a bull bar and a 2 inch lift and you are ready for any terrain

Yes, I know that it’s on the Patrol platform. But my understanding is that, while it’s based on the same platform, the Armada is a bit less robust than the Patrol with a less robust rear suspension and axle setup, for example. But like I said, it would probably be perfectly fine for my needs anyway. Quality control, reliability, and Nissan‘s viability as a business were the main concerns.

 

[Pura Vida]

Yes, I know that it’s on the Patrol platform. But my understanding is that, while it’s based on the same platform, the Armada is a bit less robust than the Patrol with a less robust rear suspension and axle setup, for example. But like I said, it would probably be perfectly fine for my needs anyway. Quality control, reliability, and Nissan‘s viability as a business were the main concerns.

From 2017 onwards, it’s basically the same truck, but the American ones have a few modifications like different bumpers, and different creature comforts, but they are built at the same plant, and overall the same. It’s like the land cruiser VX in Australia vs the US Spec. The US spec is nicer and a little different because nobody needs to overland, so it becomes a luxury truck first, but still with the famous land cruiser or patrol capabilities. The older armadas were different but the new ones are the same

although Land cruiser beats patrol any day, armada is still an excellent choice if you want a new luxury overlander post 2022

 

[Tex68w]

Yes!! ^this. Maybe too much (or too little) coffee for me today, but a FJ40-esque rugged body on a land cruiser (quality!) chassis, at a Jeep Rubicon price point. Yeah I know, it probably wouldn't work. There is a reason I'm not in marketing - it would probably be a flop. But it would be sooooo cool if they did it. Yeah, the FJ Cruiser didn't do it for me either. right idea, wrong body design (plus the rear and side visibility was the worst of any vehicle I've driven).

I owned two FJC's and while I never totally fell in love with the styling I did enjoying driving them and their off-road capability. You're correct about the blind spots, they were the absolute worst of any vehicle I have owned and by a long shot lol.

 

[Pura Vida]

I owned two FJC's and while I never totally fell in love with the styling I did enjoying driving them and their off-road capability. You're correct about the blind spots, they were the absolute worst of any vehicle I have owned and by a long shot lol.

My friend has a triple locked, late model FJC, and it it the most epic thing ever. I drive a 40, and I am still a little jealous......it’s essentially a rebodied 4Runner but I still love it. To each their own though. It’s kind of a niche vehicle. Not everyone’s cup of tea...,although he constantly gets calls from dealers trying to buy his car because demand is so high right now

 

[greynolds]

From 2017 onwards, it’s basically the same truck, but the American ones have a few modifications like different bumpers, and different creature comforts, but they are built at the same plant, and overall the same. It’s like the land cruiser VX in Australia vs the US Spec. The US spec is nicer and a little different because nobody needs to overland, so it becomes a luxury truck first, but still with the famous land cruiser or patrol capabilities. The older armadas were different but the new ones are the same

Unfortunately, there's a lot of conflicting information out there about the current generation being identical (I'm talking about suspension / axles and ignoring things like the bumpers) to the Patrol or being slightly less heavy duty and it's hard to tell for sure who's correct. At the time I was shopping for the LC I ended up buying, it seemed like half the people said the Patrol and Armada are just as rugged as each other and the other half said the USA spec Armada isn't as rugged...

My friend has a triple locked, late model FJC, and it it the most epic thing ever. I drive a 40, and I am still a little jealous......it’s essentially a rebodied 4Runner but I still love it. To each their own though. It’s kind of a niche vehicle. Not everyone’s cup of tea...,although he constantly gets calls from dealers trying to buy his car because demand is so high right now

Yeah, there's no denying the capability of the FJC. But I would never buy one due to the blind spots and I just don't like the body style at all. IF Toyota came out with a FJC 2 that had a body style that was much closer to the classic FJ-40, that's something I would seriously consider buying if I wanted to replace the LC.

 

[Markuson]

I owned two FJC's and while I never totally fell in love with the styling I did enjoying driving them and their off-road capability. You're correct about the blind spots, they were the absolute worst of any vehicle I have owned and by a long shot lol.

When the FJC first came out…visibility is what instantly killed it for me when I sat in one. The short windshield that is soooo far forward felt like I was looking through a tube. Couldn’t lean forward and look up at birds, cliffs, clouds, trails. Just ceiling. Then there was rearward.

Love the approach and departure angles, but I want to actually SEE where I’m wandering/exploring.
Couldn’t do it.

 

[Pura Vida]

Unfortunately, there's a lot of conflicting information out there about the current generation being identical (I'm talking about suspension / axles and ignoring things like the bumpers) to the Patrol or being slightly less heavy duty and it's hard to tell for sure who's correct. At the time I was shopping for the LC I ended up buying, it seemed like half the people said the Patrol and Armada are just as rugged as each other and the other half said the USA spec Armada isn't as rugged...


Yeah, there's no denying the capability of the FJC. But I would never buy one due to the blind spots and I just don't like the body style at all. IF Toyota came out with a FJC 2 that had a body style that was much closer to the classic FJ-40, that's something I would seriously consider buying if I wanted to replace the LC.

Armada doesn’t have lockers and has different suspension more suited to road use, but that is easy enough to fix. The highest trim armada is till cheaper than an LC, so they can be fixed up to great capabilities pretty well.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I bought my LX at a LandRover dealership. When driving out, I remarked to my wife about the horrible mistake some fool made when trading it in.

 

[Tex68w]

When the FJC first came out…visibility is what instantly killed it for me when I sat in one. The short windshield that is soooo far forward felt like I was looking through a tube. Couldn’t lean forward and look up at birds, cliffs, clouds, trails. Just ceiling. Then there was rearward.

Love the approach and departure angles, but I want to actually SEE where I’m wandering/exploring.
Couldn’t do it.

The front visibility never bothered me as much as the rearward visibility or lack thereof did lol.

The day I sold her back in 2015.

 

[TaishoCruiser]

Unfortunately, there's a lot of conflicting information out there about the current generation being identical (I'm talking about suspension / axles and ignoring things like the bumpers) to the Patrol or being slightly less heavy duty and it's hard to tell for sure who's correct. At the time I was shopping for the LC I ended up buying, it seemed like half the people said the Patrol and Armada are just as rugged as each other and the other half said the USA spec Armada isn't as rugged...


Yeah, there's no denying the capability of the FJC. But I would never buy one due to the blind spots and I just don't like the body style at all. IF Toyota came out with a FJC 2 that had a body style that was much closer to the classic FJ-40, that's something I would seriously consider buying if I wanted to replace the LC.

I really like the Australian Y62 - if Nissan or Infiniti has sold that vehicle here and backed it up with decent service, Nissan could have added some healthy competition to the full-site offload arena. The 2017+ US Armada has some of the same underpinnings (frame, engine, transmission, transfer case), however, among other things, the rear differential is smaller and lacks the factory locker, the front differential has a smaller ring gear and aluminum housing versus the iron housing in the Australian version, an the axles in the front and year are smaller in the U.S. spec. If the Y62 was sold by Lexus I would have one and would deal with the hassle and wait of getting the factory upgraded parts from Aus, but after my last few Infiniti 'service' visits for the better half's car, the Y62 QX/Armada fell off the list.

I also want to love the New Defender - I don't mind the styling, I am okay with IFS and IRS as long as I have long travel options down the road, and JLR put some time and effort into crash safety, which is more than I can say for FCA on the JL and Gladiator. But after test driving a new Defender with issues missed during the pre-delivery inspection and meeting an owner trading one in for his second Defender in six months after his first had issues the dealer and JLRNA couldn't remedy, I just couldn't pull the trigger.

I hope the LC300 comes here as an LX in 2022, and I hope an LC300 version of the Land Cruiser, with some of the rest of the world options like a factory locking differential, makes its way here in 2023. If not, between the Cybertruck, the F150 Lighning, and other EV trucks that have space for a range extending generator in the back if I want to get away from it all (including away from charging points), I will hang onto my LX and I will look forward to what the EV future holds.

And yes, if anyone from Lexus or Toyota North America happens across this thread, I would happily hop in line for a gas, plug in hybrid, or electric LC300 (preferably with a range extender).

 

[Pura Vida]

I really like the Australian Y62 - if Nissan or Infiniti has sold that vehicle here and backed it up with decent service, Nissan could have added some healthy competition to the full-site offload arena. The 2017+ US Armada has some of the same underpinnings (frame, engine, transmission, transfer case), however, among other things, the rear differential is smaller and lacks the factory locker, the front differential has a smaller ring gear and aluminum housing versus the iron housing in the Australian version, an the axles in the front and year are smaller in the U.S. spec. If the Y62 was sold by Lexus I would have one and would deal with the hassle and wait of getting the factory upgraded parts from Aus, but after my last few Infiniti 'service' visits for the better half's car, the Y62 QX/Armada fell off the list.

I also want to love the New Defender - I don't mind the styling, I am okay with IFS and IRS as long as I have long travel options down the road, and JLR put some time and effort into crash safety, which is more than I can say for FCA on the JL and Gladiator. But after test driving a new Defender with issues missed during the pre-delivery inspection and meeting an owner trading one in for his second Defender in six months after his first had issues the dealer and JLRNA couldn't remedy, I just couldn't pull the trigger.

I hope the LC300 comes here as an LX in 2022, and I hope an LC300 version of the Land Cruiser, with some of the rest of the world options like a factory locking differential, makes its way here in 2023. If not, between the Cybertruck, the F150 Lighning, and other EV trucks that have space for a range extending generator in the back if I want to get away from it all (including away from charging points), I will hang onto my LX and I will look forward to what the EV future holds.

And yes, if anyone from Lexus or Toyota North America happens across this thread, I would happily hop in line for a gas, plug in hybrid, or electric LC300 (preferably with a range extender).

The LX is returning to the USA, and because the GX is basically a prado since the beginning, It would be pretty safe to say the LX will be a rebodied 300 with new springs, although you may need to do some work on the face to get better angles, and pay a little extra $$$ for the Lexus badge, but nonetheless a land cruiser. I would go for the armada just because it is so much more reasonable, and a lot of the issues with the diff and etc can be fixed with some time. Some LX models can go up to 100k ver easily, while the armada starts at 50k and can go up to 70k in options. Both are very nice vehicles.

 

[Tex68w]

The Infiniti feels much cheaper in terms of build quality and interior textiles IMHO. Their resale values are pretty poor in comparison to the Lexus/Toyota product as well. For some that can be seen as a good thing because their money will go further with a Nissan/Infiiniti product. I too hope that the Land Cruiser returns in the coming years so that I can take our current 200 from the misses and build it out to my personal tastes and get her a new one to keep stock lol. If that doesn't materialize I'll likely find myself in the new Bronco in a few years.

 

[Pura Vida]

The Infiniti feels much cheaper in terms of build quality and interior textiles IMHO. Their resale values are pretty poor in comparison to the Lexus/Toyota product as well. For some that can be seen as a good thing because their money will go further with a Nissan/Infiiniti product. I too hope that the Land Cruiser returns in the coming years so that I can take our current 200 from the misses and build it out to my personal tastes and get her a new one to keep stock lol. If that doesn't materialize I'll likely find myself in the new Bronco in a few years.

The bronco looks great. The land cruiser is either leaving in 2022 or 2021 in the USA, not quite sure but it is very soon. Ford knows what they are doing, and honestly made the best wrangler competitor I have seen. It can fit 37s stock. Looks amazing.

 

[greynolds]

I really like the Australian Y62 - if Nissan or Infiniti has sold that vehicle here and backed it up with decent service, Nissan could have added some healthy competition to the full-site offload arena. The 2017+ US Armada has some of the same underpinnings (frame, engine, transmission, transfer case), however, among other things, the rear differential is smaller and lacks the factory locker, the front differential has a smaller ring gear and aluminum housing versus the iron housing in the Australian version, an the axles in the front and year are smaller in the U.S. spec. If the Y62 was sold by Lexus I would have one and would deal with the hassle and wait of getting the factory upgraded parts from Aus, but after my last few Infiniti 'service' visits for the better half's car, the Y62 QX/Armada fell off the list.

Thanks for posting - those are the differences I was referring to.

 

[Dan Higgins]

As for the new Defender, I, too, was disappointed. I loved the 2014 LR4 that I had (though it did have the disappearing shift knob). 2 years. 50K+ miles. Some great adventures. It was my first vehicle that could go offroad (though I did not do aggressive stuff like some of you). I loved that you could make the cargo floor flat. Plenty of great memories. (see pics below). So I was hoping that the new Defender would be robust enough to be my next vehicle after my 2016 LC finally died. Then I saw the reports from TFL and other early buyers. So sad. I gave up the idea of a reliable Defender and reset the clock on my Land Cruiser by trading in the 2016 for a 2021. (Not a fan of the new 300 body style. I love split tailgates.)

Though I loved the LR4, I trust the Land Cruiser.