So i test drove a Defender today…. (1 Viewer)

[CharlieS]

JLR is owned by Tata Motors of India now. They introduced the economical "Tata Nano" to India. Their highest end SUV sold today starts at ~$20k USD. The lowest end car starts at just under $7k USD. All of which are a far cry from Jaguar/Land Rover prices. So anyone who expects high quality from a notoriously unreliable brand which was sold to a company who has zero understanding of any market outside of India is absolutely insane.

Tata Motors Cars - Sedans, Hatchbacks, SUVs | Tata Motors Limited

Tata Motors official website for passenger cars in India. Explore the latest cars and SUVs by Tata Motors, specifications, colors & features. Book a test drive today.

cars.tatamotors.com

The Nano, btw, is a huge step up from the 2-cycle auto-rickshaws that are all over India, and which apparently can be had off ebay for about $100.

Bajaj Auto Taxi Tuk Tuk 3 Wheeler Soft Yellow Top Roof Canopy Hood Cover | eBay

It is a Soft Canopy Top in yellow color. Color : Yellow.

www.ebay.com

I've ridden in them in Bangalore. Honestly though once you've been in any vehicle in India all of the honking that NYC cab drivers do makes total sense. Driving is absolutely INSANE there.
View attachment 2693318

Two coworkers and I rented a motorcycle for a day and drove in both city and rural traffic around Bangalore and it was hands down the most harrowing experience of my lifetime. Good adventure though…

It was complete with a broken down brand new Triumph Tiger. Made by a British manufacturer, incidentally…

 

[Angelo1]

JLR is owned by Tata Motors of India now. They introduced the economical "Tata Nano" to India. Their highest end SUV sold today starts at ~$20k USD. The lowest end car starts at just under $7k USD. All of which are a far cry from Jaguar/Land Rover prices. So anyone who expects high quality from a notoriously unreliable brand which was sold to a company who has zero understanding of any market outside of India is absolutely insane.

Tata Motors Cars - Sedans, Hatchbacks, SUVs | Tata Motors Limited

Tata Motors official website for passenger cars in India. Explore the latest cars and SUVs by Tata Motors, specifications, colors & features. Book a test drive today.

cars.tatamotors.com

The Nano, btw, is a huge step up from the 2-cycle auto-rickshaws that are all over India, and which apparently can be had off ebay for about $100.

Bajaj Auto Taxi Tuk Tuk 3 Wheeler Soft Yellow Top Roof Canopy Hood Cover | eBay

It is a Soft Canopy Top in yellow color. Color : Yellow.

www.ebay.com

I've ridden in them in Bangalore. Honestly though once you've been in any vehicle in India all of the honking that NYC cab drivers do makes total sense. Driving is absolutely INSANE there.
View attachment 2693318

I wouldn’t discredit Tata that much. Ratan has put life back into Land Rover when Ford was ruining the JLR brand. If it weren’t for being unreliable, I would buy the new Range Rover in a heartbeat. How Ratan Tata brought life to Jaguar Land Rover - ET Auto - https://www.google.com/amp/s/auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/amp/news/passenger-vehicle/cars/how-ratan-tata-brings-life-to-jaguar-land-rover/63241719

 

[gx2lc]

I am going to provide my .02 even though it wasn't requested.... I had a new defender that was lemon lawed and after months of issues it was finally bought back by JLR. The Defenders are nice to drive and capable cars but I would wait another two years before pulling the trigger as there are many teething problems. I had 17 miles on the clock and electrical gremlins were rampant-- even worse the dealer stated "its a land rover they are not perfect"

Also I am now in a 200 series cruiser....

WOW! I imagine that must of been infuriating as the owner of a new vehicle even with JLR reputation... could you share a little more on the issues you had and journey to LC? Asking out of curiosity.

 

[overrovers]

Of course! The first issue starting the day after I drove my car home a whopping 8 miles from the dealership. All the cameras went fuzzy and the screen was glitchy.
That weekend I had the car dropped off and a software update preformed. That Sunday the washer fluid leaked all over the place as well and the dealer fix was a cable tie
Fast forward 300 miles and 1 tank of Fuel and the darn thing didn't start and wouldn't take a jump the car was in a "safe Mode" - back to the dealer again and another update
I had rattling in the headliner with a loose screw, a door wouldn't shut properly and sounded like a geo metro in a hurricane and all parts were backordered.
Only two weeks later It was diagnosed with a faulty TCM (telematics control unit) also back ordered and bad wiring harness.
I had the car for 1,300 miles and 3 months but it only was ever in my garage a total of 12 days.
All hope was not lost but my frustrations were growing and I asked for a replacement... and the final nail in the coffin is that I was told by the dealer that if I wanted I could trade the car in and spend an additional 8K for another car...many many nasty emails and phone calls and 2 months of a loaner car I finally got rid of that paperweight.

I love the old ones still and have a 95 LWB classic and series 3 which I will keep till the end of time but the new ones are just not properly dialed in.... if anyone is still considering one I would recommend waiting until a tried and proven V8 is released and hopefully the teething problems as less.

 

[Whiskerz]

JLR is owned by Tata Motors of India now. They introduced the economical "Tata Nano" to India. Their highest end SUV sold today starts at ~$20k USD. The lowest end car starts at just under $7k USD. All of which are a far cry from Jaguar/Land Rover prices. So anyone who expects high quality from a notoriously unreliable brand which was sold to a company who has zero understanding of any market outside of India is absolutely insane.

Tata Motors Cars - Sedans, Hatchbacks, SUVs | Tata Motors Limited

Tata Motors official website for passenger cars in India. Explore the latest cars and SUVs by Tata Motors, specifications, colors & features. Book a test drive today.

cars.tatamotors.com

The Nano, btw, is a huge step up from the 2-cycle auto-rickshaws that are all over India, and which apparently can be had off ebay for about $100.

Bajaj Auto Taxi Tuk Tuk 3 Wheeler Soft Yellow Top Roof Canopy Hood Cover | eBay

It is a Soft Canopy Top in yellow color. Color : Yellow.

www.ebay.com

I've ridden in them in Bangalore. Honestly though once you've been in any vehicle in India all of the honking that NYC cab drivers do makes total sense. Driving is absolutely INSANE there.
View attachment 2693318

I have to point out that auction is for just the yellow top and not the whole vehicle

 

[Lester did that]

Of course! The first issue starting the day after I drove my car home a whopping 8 miles from the dealership. All the cameras went fuzzy and the screen was glitchy.
That weekend I had the car dropped off and a software update preformed. That Sunday the washer fluid leaked all over the place as well and the dealer fix was a cable tie
Fast forward 300 miles and 1 tank of Fuel and the darn thing didn't start and wouldn't take a jump the car was in a "safe Mode" - back to the dealer again and another update
I had rattling in the headliner with a loose screw, a door wouldn't shut properly and sounded like a geo metro in a hurricane and all parts were backordered.
Only two weeks later It was diagnosed with a faulty TCM (telematics control unit) also back ordered and bad wiring harness.
I had the car for 1,300 miles and 3 months but it only was ever in my garage a total of 12 days.
All hope was not lost but my frustrations were growing and I asked for a replacement... and the final nail in the coffin is that I was told by the dealer that if I wanted I could trade the car in and spend an additional 8K for another car...many many nasty emails and phone calls and 2 months of a loaner car I finally got rid of that paperweight.

I love the old ones still and have a 95 LWB classic and series 3 which I will keep till the end of time but the new ones are just not properly dialed in.... if anyone is still considering one I would recommend waiting until a tried and proven V8 is released and hopefully the teething problems as less.

Seems like my buddy is unfortunately heading down the same road with his brand new Defender. It's a shame.

They have always had issues. But a lot of the issues where figured out by the strong community the brand has. Today it's sensors and electronics that fail. Not a non serviceable drive shaft that can be replaced with a serviceable one. Or replacing the thermostat. (which the engineers should have figured out) Relatively simple fixes to build a reliable beast if you have the time. Mechanics are one thing but chasing electrical issues can be a nightmare. Especially if the parts are not available what happens when the warranty runs out?

 

[linuxgod]

I have to point out that auction is for just the yellow top and not the whole vehicle

Heh, I didn't notice that, however I would not be surprised if you couldn't pick up an entire lawnmower auto rickshaw for $100 of alibaba...

 

[greynolds]

Especially if the parts are not available what happens when the warranty runs out?

Parts availability and cost issues were some of the things that led me to the LC. I had a 2017 AMG G-Wagen and had been waiting for some parts (warranty replacements for cracked tail lights) for 9 months starting in September of 2019. After March of 2020, the dealer started using Covid as the excuse for the delay, which didn't sit well given that I had already been waiting for about 6 months at that point.

Out of warranty, those tail light assemblies would have been about $750 each - ouch. They were covered by the warranty because there was no sign they had been hit by a rock or something; the theory was that the bolts were too tight when originally installed at the factory. After having had a brake job done prior to that and being completely shocked at the price, I decided that if I wanted to be able to retire at some point, the G-Wagen wasn't the best long term option for me, as much as I enjoyed it overall.

I realize that some of the LC parts won't be cheap either, but the total cost of ownership should be a lot lower and reliability should definitely be better.

 

[DenverLX]

I have spent a good bit of time riding in and driving the Range Rover Sport autobiography and Range Rover Autobiography, two guys I work with had them. They are both outrageously expensive, but damn they are awesome. The supercharged V8 is 518 HP!!! The Sport drove like a race car, it was awesome, the Big Boy Range Rover was the most luxurious vehicle Ive ever been in with rear massage seats. However they still acted like RR's and needed a lot of time at the dealer. Both guys got tiered of them and sold them.

The only vehicles that really tempt me (Ive been a LC guy my whole life), is the Fords and the new Rivian R1S. Ford is doing amazing things. The Raptor is awesome, the high end F-150's are more luxury than my LX570, the Bronco looks incredible, the Lincoln Navigator is the nicest interior Ive even seen and is somehow fast too. Ford is aggressively improving and they seem to be making the cars I want. The new Rivian SUV looks amazing in both interior and capability, but Im not ready to go electric just yet. (I don't think towing in the Colorado Mountains is a good idea with electric yet)

But at the end of the day there is not a single other vehicle made that can tow, haul a lot of gear, can offload anywhere and has a luxury interior expect the LC/LX. Now if I could just get CarPlay and decent fuel milage.....

 

[Dan Higgins]

I like the styling of the new Defender well enough (and have seen a few out in the wild around town), except that it looks more like what should have been the next Discovery rather than a Defender replacement to me. I don't like the look of the current Discovery at all.

Amen! The new "Discovery" came out while I still had my LR4 and was active on the LR4 forum. Pretty much everyone gagged at the new Discovery. And not only the looks. It was all about the gee-whiz gizmos and how easy it was to fit kids in the car and for them to get in the car. It was sad to those of us who had hoped they would come out with an LR5 or other next gen that would address the reliability. (Though to be fair, by the time they brought out the LR4 the reliability issues had diminished considerably. They even had a shot and changing their reputation. Then came the "Discovery" and now the "Defender". Oh well. Glad I picked up a 2021 LC.)

 

[greynolds]

But at the end of the day there is not a single other vehicle made that can tow, haul a lot of gear, can offload anywhere and has a luxury interior expect the LC/LX. Now if I could just get CarPlay and decent fuel milage.....

CarPlay can be done, at least depending on the model year... I can't help you with fuel economy .

 

[Lester did that]

Parts availability and cost issues were some of the things that led me to the LC. I had a 2017 AMG G-Wagen and had been waiting for some parts (warranty replacements for cracked tail lights) for 9 months starting in September of 2019. After March of 2020, the dealer started using Covid as the excuse for the delay, which didn't sit well given that I had already been waiting for about 6 months at that point.

Out of warranty, those tail light assemblies would have been about $750 each - ouch. They were covered by the warranty because there was no sign they had been hit by a rock or something; the theory was that the bolts were too tight when originally installed at the factory. After having had a brake job done prior to that and being completely shocked at the price, I decided that if I wanted to be able to retire at some point, the G-Wagen wasn't the best long term option for me, as much as I enjoyed it overall.

I realize that some of the LC parts won't be cheap either, but the total cost of ownership should be a lot lower and reliability should definitely be better.

That brings up another important detail. Parts for a Toyota are available every where in the world. Even in some small town. And if something does brake you can find a normal mechanic to fix it. Not so much with a RR or G-Wagon. A lot of mechanics won't touch them.

The parts might not be cheap but they are available. Headlight assemblies cost about the same lol. But once you fix it it is usually fixed for the life of the part. aka 100-175K. I own my LC no payments. It's a 2009, 167K. Actual repairs a year are less than $300. A sensor here or there, some ground strap minor stuff that never left me stranded. The real cost is horrible gas mileage and upgrades and gadgets.

 

[greynolds]

A G-Wagen or RR doesn‘t get great gas mileage either. In fact, my LC gets better mileage than my G63 did. But we obviously aren’t buying these things with the expectation that they’ll get great gas mileage.

 

[Angelo1]

RR is coming out with an all electric, what could possibly go wrong...It’s not like they have electrical issues.

 

[Angelo1]

I’m staying with friends near Boulder, CO area and they just bought a brand new Ranger Rover sport SVR. I was driving it to Cherry Creek with the super hot ladies while kids hung out with the friends and my buddy was finishing up some building plans for a Denver project. Anyways, as we are driving, both screens went black. I asked our dear friend what I hit. She said, this has happened before. I said “I guess you’ll be making your first service appointment”. Her reply was “no, I’ve already had it looked at and they can’t do anything about until corporate finds a fix”. Also, she said the service department is the worst she’s ever dealt with and hates them with a passion but loves her new ride. Moral to the story, I can see why people love their Rovers as they are absolutely wonderful to drive but the fact it already has electrical issues is a no go for this 200 owner.

 

[Madtiger]

Two videos to say it all:

 

[luke27617]

I’m staying with friends near Boulder, CO area and they just bought a brand new Ranger Rover sport SVR. I was driving it to Cherry Creek with the super hot ladies while kids hung out with the friends and my buddy was finishing up some building plans for a Denver project. Anyways, as we are driving, both screens went black. I asked our dear friend what I hit. She said, this has happened before. I said “I guess you’ll be making your first service appointment”. Her reply was “no, I’ve already had it looked at and they can’t do anything about until corporate finds a fix”. Also, she said the service department is the worst she’s ever dealt with and hates them with a passion but loves her new ride. Moral to the story, I can see why people love their Rovers as they are absolutely wonderful to drive but the fact it already has electrical issues is a no go for this 200 owner.

Our LC has similar problem. For no reason it reboots nav screen. I have seen it on my 16, 20 and my latest 21LC HE. The 16 even had decimal problem where nav screen vs. small speedo distances were not aligned. One showing 1.6 miles to next turn while other 16.0. My 21 even once had radio screen frozen. I could press radio station buttons but radio was not switching. Made a video just in case. We have old tech, newer tech has to have more issues due to complexity.

 

[Angelo1]

Our LC has similar problem. For no reason it reboots nav screen. I have seen it on my 16, 20 and my latest 21LC HE. The 16 even had decimal problem where nav screen vs. small speedo distances were not aligned. One showing 1.6 miles to next turn while other 16.0. My 21 even once had radio screen frozen. I could press radio station buttons but radio was not switching. Made a video just in case. We have old tech, newer tech has to have more issues due to complexity.

That’s certainly disappointing. I’ve been lucky with my ‘19 thus far. Would not be happy to have that happen on my 200.

 

[Madtiger]

That’s certainly disappointing. I’ve been lucky with my ‘19 thus far. Would not be happy to have that happen on my 200.

Well, soon, i will have my dealer take a look at my LC…the AC display panel is non-functional. My LC was probably made by a former Land Rover employee.

 

[rlynch356]

FWIW..a good friend of mine has an early production Defender 110, to this day it still resets the nav Home to slovakia (where the factory is) and the time to GMT... everyday...
he gave up trying to get it fixed.....

as a defender 90 (classic one) owner, i have a 200 series, but then again i have owned way more LC's than rovers.
i did buy my daugher a range rover classic with a diesel though.. she loves it..

i dumped all our modern ladn rovers over the years, none were without issues. heck my D90 has issues but frankly they are all cave man fixes so i still love it.

would i buy a new defender? yes, but i would most likely just lease it and plan to dump it at term when the warranty expires.