Should Toyota sell the 70 series in lieu of the 300?

[SharpeCat]

I mean it's cheaper and solid axles up front with 3x lockers. It's a utility vehicle mostly but they should sell a Lexus 300 variant if you want luxury. I think a 70 Series would sell more than a 90k$ luxury version.

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@ToyotaMotorCorp @Toyota

Give us the Troop Carrier!! Overlanders dream! The doors/hinges take up valuable build space in the back.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Give us the Troop Carrier!! Overlanders dream! The doors/hinges take up valuable build space in the back.

There are several in ‘MUD’s classified section.

 

[SharpeCat]

There are several in ‘MUD’s classified section.

Not a brand new one though! One can dream right.

I do like the updated body on them. Still solid axles front and back and I won’t complain about the updated power train (v8 diesel).

just give us the super tourer from patriot campers and I wouldn’t even care if they don’t release the 300 for another 10 years!

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Not a brand new one though! One can dream right.

I do like the updated body on them. Still solid axles front and back and I won’t complain about the updated power train (v8 diesel).

just give us the super tourer from patriot campers and I wouldn’t even care if they don’t release the 300 for another 10 years!

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As long as you realize that even that Land Cruiser only has 1 cup holder.

 

[TonyP]

Not a brand new one though! One can dream right.

I do like the updated body on them. Still solid axles front and back and I won’t complain about the updated power train (v8 diesel).

just give us the super tourer from patriot campers and I wouldn’t even care if they don’t release the 300 for another 10 years!

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If a $90K Luxury SUV won't sell what makes you think a $150k+ Patriot Camper's 79 series will?

 

[SharpeCat]

If a $90K Luxury SUV won't sell what makes you think a $150k+ Patriot Camper's 79 series will?

They do sell! Plenty of 200s owners here on mud alone (who I am sure would gladly consider the 70s if it was an option). I highly doubt the 70 series will sell less than the 200 series to the Toyota/LC folks. The luxury/AHC folks can still have the LX if they do 70s/LX combo for US between Toyota and Lexus, which I think is the ideal approach.

As far as the supertourer, like in Australia, only the rich will go for the ultra premium package. Like here, we have our share of people who spend 100k then add another 30k or more in mods anyways (just king shocks and an alu cab alone is a good chunk), only to have the result be a little (relative) shy of the 79 supertourer pictured (in terms of capability and bad-assability).

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I've said it before and will say it again: the 79 or any 70 series for that matter is nothing like what the majority of the US market looks for in a vehicle, when as far as I can see, everything else available is more or less disposable.

 

[SharpeCat]

I've said it before and will say it again: the 79 or any 70 series for that matter is nothing like what the majority of the US market looks for in a vehicle, when as far as I can see, everything else available is more or less disposable.

I don’t think the majority of people anywhere looks for anything in the price range of a new 70 series either, just as most people in the US don’t look for a new 200 series. The few who have that kind of money for a capable off-road vehicle, well I’m willing to bet that they would absolutely look for a 70 if it was offered. You can’t sell a 200 series to a lot of the rich Jeep fanatics in the US, but I’m willing to bet the 79 can convert quite a few as they share way more similarities.

I think your statement is not exclusive to the US, but we aren’t talking about marketing any version of the land cruiser variants to the majority of people, are we? We are talking about marketing it to the kind of folks who would consider a 300 series to begin with, which is definitely in the minorities.

Bringing in the 70s/utilitarian option to the Toyota side while keeping the LX the luxury variant, would make a lot more sense than another 10 years of luxury SUVs on both Toyota and Lexus side.

And I think most people everywhere (not just the US) aren’t necessarily looking for something “disposable”, but rather it’s that most people everywhere can only afford to buy something “disposable”. There was a time when US money got us more quality/less disposable products, but ever since Toyota came into the picture in the 80s, a lot of US manufacturers have been having to cut corners in order to stay competitive in terms of cost. My point is what we look for and what we end up getting from US manufacturers... well let’s just say we never look for “disposable” when spending our hard-earned cash.

 

[nuclearbeef]

I don’t think the majority of people anywhere looks for anything in the price range of a new 70 series either, just as most people in the US don’t look for a new 200 series. The few who have that kind of money for a capable off-road vehicle, well I’m willing to bet that they would absolutely look for a 70 if it was offered. You can’t sell a 200 series to a lot of the rich Jeep fanatics in the US, but I’m willing to bet the 79 can convert quite a few as they share way more similarities.

I think your statement is not exclusive to the US, but we aren’t talking about marketing any version of the land cruiser variants to the majority of people, are we? We are talking about marketing it to the kind of folks who would consider a 300 series to begin with, which is definitely in the minorities.

Bringing in the 70s/utilitarian option to the Toyota side while keeping the LX the luxury variant, would make a lot more sense than another 10 years of luxury SUVs on both Toyota and Lexus side.

And I think most people everywhere (not just the US) aren’t necessarily looking for something “disposable”, but rather it’s that most people everywhere can only afford to buy something “disposable”. There was a time when US money got us more quality/less disposable products, but ever since Toyota came into the picture in the 80s, a lot of US manufacturers have been having to cut corners in order to stay competitive in terms of cost. My point is what we look for and what we end up getting from US manufacturers... well let’s just say we never look for “disposable” when spending our hard-earned cash.

Yep!
Keep the luxo-barge in the Lexus family.
Bring in poverty pack 70 series.
Fleet sales alone should hit the break-even point.

This is, of course, ignoring the EPA/DOT/Chicken Tax dilemma.

 

[stonepa]

Ive driven the latest model of the 70 Series in Australia. It is still built to be a mine vehicle. Rides horribly, seats are terrible, no ICE, the interior plastics are horrible. I could go on and on. Not up to any modern standard, but perfect for what it intended to do. A normal buyer, no matter how big of a fan, would most likely not enjoy living with a 70 series day in day out without spending real money on modifications.

it cannot compete in the world of on-road vehicles which is why they don’t sell them here. A Tacoma or 4Runner (or even the soon to be announced Tundra) is a much better vehicle in all respects unless you need the payload or just like to harp on about Un-Obtaineum.

 

[SharpeCat]

Ive driven the latest model of the 70 Series in Australia. It is still built to be a mine vehicle. Rides horribly, seats are terrible, no ICE, the interior plastics are horrible. I could go on and on. Not up to any modern standard, but perfect for what it intended to do. A normal buyer, no matter how big of a fan, would most likely not enjoy living with a 70 series day in day out without spending real money on modifications.

it cannot compete in the world of on-road vehicles which is why they don’t sell them here. A Tacoma or 4Runner (or even the soon to be announced Tundra) is a much better vehicle in all respects unless you need the payload or just like to harp on about Un-Obtaineum.

This confirms yet again that I am not a “normal” person lol. For a year in college, my only vehicle was a Yamaha xt250 - a dual sport/street legal dirt bike with knobbies. I rode that thing on the highway as well as trails and enjoyed the feel of it everywhere. It was a little bumpy ride, but it was nice being able to feel that torque that’s available on demand; I didn’t think it was an unpleasant feeling. I’d go as far as to say that many of us will enjoy the rugged feel to it. If we wanted to be pampered by heated leather seats while doing the speed limit down the highway, then we already have plenty of options (just the LX alone is enough!).

I’m not saying the 70s series will sell a ton for Toyota, but I am saying i can’t picture it selling worse than an almost identical copy of the LX. Does Toyota want to cater to the luxury crowd with the flagship model, or cater to the capabilities crowd? If the latter then the 70 series makes more sense, and if former then the LX already does it better. If they want to cater to both, then the LX is already the perfect balance for that. The 70 series being added to the lineup instead of a second “LX” will allow Toyota and Lexus to cater to more folks together. Their current lineup takes care of the luxury folks twice and ignores the off roaders/pure capability folks.

The heated leather seats and DVD players are nice, but to assume that it’s what all of us want over old-fashioned reliability is a bold assumption. A lot of Jeeps aren’t very comfortable rides, and neither are dirt bikes, but they sell a lot of them here.

You have to think about why people look for and are willing to spend money on a Land Cruiser in the first place, regardless of where they are from.

What’s literally the number one vehicle in the world in terms of reliability? The LC, namely the 70 series.

“If you want to get anywhere, take a Range Rover. If you want to get anywhere and back, take a Land Cruiser.”

The type of people who want to buy land cruisers aren’t just miners in Australia (they do buy a lot!), as we are talking about the #1 choice for most of the important figures and rich people of the world (politicians, military officials and etc). We are talking about the UN’s choice for their official field vehicles, and a vehicle that is notorious for being engineered to a much-higher standard. Just the fact that it has a thicker frames makes me feel much safer when in it, and the LC folks look for things like that. One recent example is the South African heist driver who drives the armored 70 series; when your life depends on your car not breaking down, is there even another option? No one will care how nice the leather seats on a Range Rover are when it’s broken at the top of the mountain or when you are being shot at.

My point is, the Land cruiser is a great buy everywhere for people who are looking for unparalleled reliability and capability, and that does not change in the US. Those types of people exist here as well. They are not “normal” people, and are sometimes referred to as “mudders” xD.

Let’s be honest, many of us look for LCs because we are tired of fixing up our Jeeps, nor can we afford to have a vehicle break down on us while on the trails. To us, LCs are the “buy once cry once” solution.

We aren’t just wanting something because it’s “unobtanium”, we want it because it is the best option for those who can afford it. We are also the only established country to be excluded from having the option, and it is not because we lack people with interest and funds. If I had to guess, it’s because of “Big 3” politics.

I don’t think any variant of Land Cruiser, whether LC or LX, are marketed to “normal” people, as normal people everywhere (again, not just US) can’t afford a new one of either. Now, for people who do have that kind of money, why would you think they want 2 luxury options as opposed to 1 utilitarian option and 1 luxury option?

 

[Gun Runner 5]

In my opinion if Toyota sold the 70 Series in the U.S. if would follow a similar sales trajectory as the FJCruiser. For a few years the sales would be fairly impressive as every enthusiast went out and bought one but after that the sales would start the downward spiral. After all there are only so many enthusiast and the non-enthusiast aren’t into vinyl seats, harsh rides and one cup holder in the floor.

 

[TonyP]

I don’t think the majority of people anywhere looks for anything in the price range of a new 70 series either, just as most people in the US don’t look for a new 200 series. The few who have that kind of money for a capable off-road vehicle, well I’m willing to bet that they would absolutely look for a 70 if it was offered. You can’t sell a 200 series to a lot of the rich Jeep fanatics in the US, but I’m willing to bet the 79 can convert quite a few as they share way more similarities.

I think your statement is not exclusive to the US, but we aren’t talking about marketing any version of the land cruiser variants to the majority of people, are we? We are talking about marketing it to the kind of folks who would consider a 300 series to begin with, which is definitely in the minorities.

Bringing in the 70s/utilitarian option to the Toyota side while keeping the LX the luxury variant, would make a lot more sense than another 10 years of luxury SUVs on both Toyota and Lexus side.

And I think most people everywhere (not just the US) aren’t necessarily looking for something “disposable”, but rather it’s that most people everywhere can only afford to buy something “disposable”. There was a time when US money got us more quality/less disposable products, but ever since Toyota came into the picture in the 80s, a lot of US manufacturers have been having to cut corners in order to stay competitive in terms of cost. My point is what we look for and what we end up getting from US manufacturers... well let’s just say we never look for “disposable” when spending our hard-earned cash.

A 79 Series with basic options (A/C, Power windows, ect...) would cost about $55k-$60K, for a glorified farm truck. A Wrangler or new Bronco is about $40k with considerably more options and market heritage in the US. A new 70 would be a niche within a niche in the US.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

A 79 Series with basic options (A/C, Power windows, ect...) would cost about $55k-$60K, for a glorified farm truck. A Wrangler or new Bronco is about $40k with considerably more options and market heritage in the US. A new 70 would be a niche within a niche in the US.

I think your pricing is optimistic, Toyota list price for a VDJ79 Single Cab, GXL (power windows, A/C, cloth trim and standard lockers) is $84,369 AUD, which directly converts to $65,411.29 at of right now, but I doubt it's complying with any US regulations there, I'd say would need an SCR system with AdBlue, plus costs for crash testing etc

 

[TonyP]

I think your pricing is optimistic, Toyota list price for a VDJ79 Single Cab, GXL (power windows, A/C, cloth trim and standard lockers) is $84,369 AUD, which directly converts to $65,411.29 at of right now, but I doubt it's complying with any US regulations there, I'd say would need an SCR system with AdBlue, plus costs for crash testing etc

I probably shouldn't have trusted the first Google link I saw haha But that's even worse, that's spitting distance of a Ram 1500 TRX or a Wrangler 392 pricing with discounts.

 

[nuclearbeef]

I think your pricing is optimistic, Toyota list price for a VDJ79 Single Cab, GXL (power windows, A/C, cloth trim and standard lockers) is $84,369 AUD, which directly converts to $65,411.29 at of right now, but I doubt it's complying with any US regulations there, I'd say would need an SCR system with AdBlue, plus costs for crash testing etc

Oh, I don't know.
Cut out all the government skim and they are pretty cheap.
Especially for the poverty pack models, even the V8 diesel 4-door.

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129,000 AED = $35,120 USD.

Would still need to add for EPA/DOT/Chicken Tax.


Even cheaper for the 2-door petrol.
$29,400 USD

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The gubmint... She do take a bite!

 

[SNLC]

I think your pricing is optimistic, Toyota list price for a VDJ79 Single Cab, GXL (power windows, A/C, cloth trim and standard lockers) is $84,369 AUD, which directly converts to $65,411.29 at of right now, but I doubt it's complying with any US regulations there, I'd say would need an SCR system with AdBlue, plus costs for crash testing etc

In some Latin American countries you can buy a fully loaded double cab for about $40-45k. Single cabs are $30-35k. Granted these are HZJ79’s. Double tanks, diff locks, top trim and all that for those price ranges.

Price in such and such country is all about how much they are taxed for import. In Costa Rica for example the tax is very high so new off the lot 76/78/79’s are double or more of what they are in Nicaragua, Honduras or El Salvador and even Guatemala.

None of the new 70-series are going to be major competitors vs a Jeep. To be honest they don't flex well at all so somebody coming over from a new Jeep i to say a 76-series would be disappointed in off-road performance.

Reliability and stoutness is where they shine. You can beat the poo out if them and they keep going.

As far as the EPA/DOT blah blah blah Australia and Europe have far stricter standards than we do in terms if safety ect all. With the GR7x Toyota could easily be compliant since this engine is already sold here. I don’t recall if current 70-series have side air bags as an option but if not they could easily be fitted and they already come standard with front air bags. They also already have side impact protection and I believe even crumple zones in the frames. So it really wouldn’t take much to get to meet USA EPA/DOT regs.

As far as new 70-series being to uncomfortable for the US market. I disagree and have driven them myself as well. I find the cloth seats plenty comfortable and the drivers postion plus field of vision is excellent. Sure the rear suspension is stiff so it can carry 2tonns but I never found them to be horrible, at least in the front two seats!

It is all pretty much irrelevant though. Toyota has made it crystal clear they will not be bringing the 70-series to the US. The topic has also been beaten to death on the forum for what, 15yrs? If they were to try and compete with the Jeeps and whatever they would design some US specific model, which really they did that with the FJ Cruiser right? And they probably feel the Tacoma and 4Runner provides them with enough of that market as is.

On top of that the 70-series is dying. You will not see another version of them before Toyota halts production all together. That is my opinion of course.

Cheers

 

[nuclearbeef]

In some Latin American countries you can buy a fully loaded double cab for about $40-45k. Single cabs are $30-35k. Granted these are HZJ79’s. Double tanks, diff locks, top trim and all that for those price ranges.

Price in such and such country is all about how much they are taxed for import. In Costa Rica for example the tax is very high so new off the lot 76/78/79’s are double or more of what they are in Nicaragua, Honduras or El Salvador and even Guatemala.

None of the new 70-series are going to be major competitors vs a Jeep. To be honest they don't flex well at all so somebody coming over from a new Jeep i to say a 76-series would be disappointed in off-road performance.

Reliability and stoutness is where they shine. You can beat the poo out if them and they keep going.

As far as the EPA/DOT blah blah blah Australia and Europe have far stricter standards than we do in terms if safety ect all. With the GR7x Toyota could easily be compliant since this engine is already sold here. I don’t recall if current 70-series have side air bags as an option but if not they could easily be fitted and they already come standard with front air bags. They also already have side impact protection and I believe even crumple zones in the frames. So it really wouldn’t take much to get to meet USA EPA/DOT regs.

As far as new 70-series being to uncomfortable for the US market. I disagree and have driven them myself as well. I find the cloth seats plenty comfortable and the drivers postion plus field of vision is excellent. Sure the rear suspension is stiff so it can carry 2tonns but I never found them to be horrible, at least in the front two seats!

It is all pretty much irrelevant though. Toyota has made it crystal clear they will not be bringing the 70-series to the US. The topic has also been beaten to death on the forum for what, 15yrs? If they were to try and compete with the Jeeps and whatever they would design some US specific model, which really they did that with the FJ Cruiser right? And they probably feel the Tacoma and 4Runner provides them with enough of that market as is.

On top of that the 70-series is dying. You will not see another version of them before Toyota halts production all together. That is my opinion of course.

Cheers

All sadly correct.
I know there is more comfort and convenience out there.
But nothing puts a smile on my face bigger than my Pig or my Troopy!

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I probably shouldn't have trusted the first Google link I saw haha But that's even worse, that's spitting distance of a Ram 1500 TRX or a Wrangler 392 pricing with discounts.

Funny you mention the TRX/Wrangler etc. An F250 Tremor costs ~$160k here, the new Ram 1500 starts about 110k. Damn, I'd love a TRX for mid 80s

 

[Gun Runner 5]

This photo (2019 70 Series Meet & Greet) shows that if you want a 70 Series, you can have a 70 Series.