Is anyone surprised at the damage? It seems the downward force was more than the longitudinal one. Did you have a ball mounted in the receiver that perhaps increased the moment during impact?
Should this LC-100 be totaled?
- Thread starter DW Cruiser
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- #22
The body really doesn't show any damage, except for dented tailgate, thrashed & drooping bumper cover, drooping hitch, and bottom-rear corners of rear doors sticking out 3/16 to 1/4 inch. No body creases.
No ball was in the receiver, so that wouldn't account for a downward force. There's a large pushed-in dent in the tailgate which may have been made by his hood. And there are signs that the towbar took a direct hit, maybe from his bumper.
New development - The body shop says the frame can be REPLACED with a new one for $8K. Sounds like a great idea to me. Didn't know that was possible. Any opinions about that? Seems like the insurance will likely go for it, since it's far less $ than totaling. Add another 1 or 2 K for body work, and we're looking at $10k tops.
Per my previous thread, my LC100 (low-mileage '04) was hit from behind, and the frame is buckled in two places, near the rear coil springs, left and right. Very little damage to the body.
The body shop says the frame can be REPLACED with a new one for $8K, parts and labor. Sounds like a great idea to me. Didn't know that was possible. Any opinions about that? Add another 1 or 2 K for body work, and we're looking at $10k tops. Seems like the insurance will likely go for it, since it's far less $ than totaling.
Any downside issues to replacing the frame? The body shop says they've done this with other cruisers.
If you missed it in the other thread, here's one of the buckles...
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I think "10k tops" is a low number. That is a huge amount of work, how long did they tell you you'd be out of a vehicle for? I would guess other problems/issues would arise during the whole process too. Things would break that would need replacing.... a stripped bolt here and a bent this or that.Things don't always go back together as well as they came apart. I'd look for the insurance company to total the truck. The CARFAX will still show a major damage report with frame issues. JMHO of course.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
They do frame swaps all the time. However I would be sure you have the whole quote. You mentioned the rear doors were out of alignment. That sounds like a lot of body work. That must mean the whole back end is pushed down and the roof kinked / bowed in order for them not to close properly anymore.
Some shops like to give a low initial estimate. That way they get the work and the insurance company does not total it. Then they do " add-ons" during the repair and eventually the cost is higher than the total cost, but the ins co is already committed to the fix by then and they will not back out.
There is also the issue of hidden mechanical damage to transmission, transfercase, diffs etc due to the shock load. Body shops normally have very little idea about those.
Some shops like to give a low initial estimate. That way they get the work and the insurance company does not total it. Then they do " add-ons" during the repair and eventually the cost is higher than the total cost, but the ins co is already committed to the fix by then and they will not back out.
There is also the issue of hidden mechanical damage to transmission, transfercase, diffs etc due to the shock load. Body shops normally have very little idea about those.
elkaholic
Left turn ...freakin wipers!
I'll give a dissenting opinion to paflytyer. Assuming a new OEM Mr. T frame is available, I think it is quite doable. Frame replacements are fairly common for owners of older vehicles that owners want to keep as well as less capable rigs (read old J--ps).
That siad, a frame swap for a 100 series would be one heck of a lot of work. Once the body s lifted off, most of the driveline swap and other items becomes much easier than if the body was in place. If the insurannce company will go for it and the shop will stand behind their work, I'd say go for it.
The fact that a Carfax would show major damage is an issue that come into play if you think that you'd like to sell the rig in the future ....
That siad, a frame swap for a 100 series would be one heck of a lot of work. Once the body s lifted off, most of the driveline swap and other items becomes much easier than if the body was in place. If the insurannce company will go for it and the shop will stand behind their work, I'd say go for it.
The fact that a Carfax would show major damage is an issue that come into play if you think that you'd like to sell the rig in the future ....
Trunk Monkey
Moderator
Look at beno's frame swap thread in chat on a Tundra, they did it in like two days. Let them total it, take the check, buy it back, build the pee out of it.
This. If they do repair it, make sure you hit them up (hard) for diminished value of the truck. Showing frame damage on Carfax or Autocheck will make your truck sale proof down the road regardless of the method or quality of repairs.
Agree with Diminished value claim on top of damages, but very hard to show (prove) unless you actually sell it. You could get quotes of trade-in value and Trade-in value with hit on Carfax, but then again, its not apples-to-apples on diminished "Retail" Value. Only Sellers can Guestimate the diminished retail value - thats about all you can get a guess, and that depends on the used car salesman.
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Remember, a Total means not economical to repair. (Market value less Salvage Value) vs. Cost of Repair. They can also factor in Rental or loss of use in the equation to total or not to total.
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Personally, there are others out there with clean car fax reports - lean towards total if you have the option. If you decide to repair or are forced too, order up some Spresso puck lifters?
Update - My insurance company wants to replace the frame. Estimate is about $11K. They've agreed to work with the shop I chose - a large Toyota dealer where Toyota mechanics will do the swap. The dealer also has a body shop on-site. The dealer is telling me I'll need to wait 4-6 weeks for the frame to arrive from Japan, plus another week or so for the actual work. I'm a little worried about the swap, but I'd rather go this route than try to find another cruiser of same vintage that's been well-maintained.
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Remember, a Total means not economical to repair. (Market value less Salvage Value) vs. Cost of Repair. They can also factor in Rental or loss of use in the equation to total or not to total.
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Personally, there are others out there with clean car fax reports - lean towards total if you have the option. If you decide to repair or are forced too, order up some Spresso puck lifters?
Update - My insurance company wants to replace the frame. Estimate is about $11K. They've agreed to work with the shop I chose - a large Toyota dealer where Toyota mechanics will do the swap. The dealer also has a body shop on-site. The dealer is telling me I'll need to wait 4-6 weeks for the frame to arrive from Japan, plus another week or so for the actual work. I'm a little worried about the swap, but I'd rather go this route than try to find another cruiser of same vintage that's been well-maintained.
I've done some checking on this. From what I can tell, the at-fault driver's insurance policy may include coverage for this, in which case, I'd need to somehow prove the amount of diminished value to collect. If the at-fault driver's policy doesn't include this kind of coverage, my only chance is to sue his insurance company. The fight would probably cost me more than the $ I could get, unless I'm missing something.
Correction - I'd need to sue the at-fault driver. By the looks of him, I'd say he's got $0.
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So the OP's question makes me wonder.... If his cruiser was modded out and the insurance company decided to total it, would he be able to remove his modifications (bumper, winch, lift, rack, etc...), or would the insurance company claim them as part of the vehicle?
Depends on your insurance. For me, attached to my policy is an aftermarket replacement rider worth $5k. I don't pay anything extra for this coverage (yet another reason why I've been with USAA for going on a decade). That covers pretty much anything that was added to the vehicle after I purchased it (read: stuff I can prove that I bought for it).
If you don't have such a rider on your policy, it will likely take some negotiation on your part to remove the aftermarket stuff. It's a good reason to keep all of your stock tupperware bumpers and running boards. You can sometimes give those to the insurance company in lieu of them keeping your bumpers, sliders, etc.
DW Cruiser said:
I just went through this on a different vehicle with a lot less damage. The other driver's policy would cover it under the liability policy. I do not believe that they can specifically exclude diminished value for third party claims. You are not their insured, the dipstick that hit you is. -- his own vehicle is likely not covered for diminished value under his collision coverage.
There are appraisal companies out there that will do an appraisal for $200-300 showing before and after value opinions. The cost of the appraisal can be recovered as well. they are obliged to 'make you whole', not just in terms of repairing the vehicle so it looks and drives the same, but most importantly putting you in the same financial situation as before the accident.
It's worth the fight. Make sure you keep track of any and all communication with then insurance company. Ask yourself how much less your truck would be worth to a 'reasonable' person compared to an identical, well maintained one with no damage history. With frame repairs known or shown on Carfax or similar report it's going to be a good chunk of change.
Personally I'm amazed they're not totaling it. By the time they're done paying for the repairs, and a 'similar utility' rental car for 2 months they'd be close to the value of the truck.
Could you ask the used car manager at the Toy store to give you a written estimate on value drop due to the damage history? Considering they'll be fixing the truck?
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Unfortunately, you probably need an attorney. This is one of the few cases where I'd make that recomendation. My dad got an attorney for his DV claim on an Acura and got about $4k above the legal cost. There's a very specific dance you have to take with the insurance company, but (in Oregon at least) if the final DV settlement is above their original written offer then they also owe your legal costs.
Trying to do this one yourself (depending upon your state laws) won't get you near as much as what you're really due. Go talk to someone.
Agreed! I pay a little more for USAA but it's a premium well worth paying for. We tend to not be concerned with our insurance company until we really need them. I didn't know about the aftermarket coverage until I called USAA to insure the LC. That's a nice extra, although it doesn't take long to exceed $5k in aftermarket parts/upgrades.
Interesting, I wasn't aware such provisions existed. I also bank and insure with USAA. I didn't know so many other people did too. I'll have to look into this option. Did you have to do some sort of finagling to get this extra coverage for free? 5000k worth of coverage for aftermarket parts seems a little too good to be true.
Nope, no fanagling required. The maximum coverage is actually about to be REDUCED to $5000 - it currently has no limit. The new max will kick in on my next renewal. As I remember, I think that I just selected "aftermarket equipment coverage" when I bought the LC and changed my auto policy, and it automatically added it at no charge. There is no itemized cost for it in my policy paperwork...although it might have raised my comprehensive deductible a little bit. Again, it's not specifically listed or itemized, but either way it's good to have. I can't imagine that it costs any more than a couple of extra bucks per month to add, if it costs anything at all.
From my policy paperwork back in October:
Since USAA is a armed services based organization, does that mean all of you guys served? Or did you have family that served?
From my policy paperwork back in October:
USAA said:
Since USAA is a armed services based organization, does that mean all of you guys served? Or did you have family that served?
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- Thread starter
- #37
This is great info. Any idea how/where I can find someone who can help me with the before/after appraisal for $200-$300? Seems like this might work, whereas getting an attorney for a claim worth $5,000 to $8,000 probably wouldn't work.
Yes, still active USMC. I lat-moved into the the Marine CID field a few years ago so I don't do very much romping and stomping around in the field anymore.
Semper Fi! Some of the best years of my life!!!! Made some lifelong friends. In fact, I work with 3 of them right now. Almost 20 years since we first met in the Marines, and we work together as civilians today!
I've had USAA now for 22 years (ex Coast Guard). They are great. Although I do wonder if service and quality will deteriorate now that it is open to the general public. I was always in favor of opening it to more than just officers and family, but the public at large makes me afraid.
I'm pretty sure that you will be able to increase the 5000 with a separate rider or policy, and if it's like the riders I have for jewelry, cameras, guns, etc it should be reasonably priced.
I'm pretty sure that you will be able to increase the 5000 with a separate rider or policy, and if it's like the riders I have for jewelry, cameras, guns, etc it should be reasonably priced.
