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Should I buy an 80, costs of ownership? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cruiserdan
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Grench
SILVER Star
~$48,000 and counting
Actually, I don't think they're all that expensive. They aren't cheap either. My wife and I plan to drive ours forever.
Quick estimates...
Sandy - '92 FJ80 - Purchase $10,000 in 2000 very clean. Sold $2800 2006 with wrinkled body.
Costs during ownership:
Cats $1200 - in shop
Exhaust $1000 - in shop
Brakes ~ $1000+
Trany ~ $500 parts
Tires ~ $800
Ownership costs over 5 years: $11,300
My Grey truck - '96 FZJ80 - Purchase $13,000 in 2003 w/ minor damage.
Mods: ~$11,000
Maintenance: ~$1,500
I'm into it so far for about $24,500. Planned mods will add another $5,000 or so to it over the next 2 years.
Will never sell it.
Wife's Red truck - '96 FZJ80 - Purchase $9,200 in 2006 bad paint & dings.
White glove insured shipping with pickup: $1,300
Damage done in shipping: $1,700
Time taken for settlement with shipper: 8 months
Settled amount: $1,400
Repainted hood & buffed whole truck: $800
Mods: $450
Maintenance: $250
I'm into it so far for about $12,750. Planned mods will add another $2,000 or so to it over the next 2 years.
Will never sell it.
Over our 80s ownership the last 5 years we've put about $48,000 into them. So, Dan's right. Don't buy one of these for cheap expecting that to be the end of the expenses. If you can't afford to pay cash for one, you probably shouldn't be buying it.
We thought about passing the '92 on to some needy friends who couldn't afford to buy a car. It didn't take much thought to realize that would be more curse than blessing. Thats why I took my time and sold the '92 to someone here on Ih8mud. I wanted to make sure it was going to someone who knew what they were getting into.
If you're willing to maintain it and can afford to own it, these are great vehicles. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, a used Camry would be a better bet.
Above is IMHO. Yeah, you can play with these cheaper. I haven't cut corners on mine and I like it that way. YMMV.
Actually, I don't think they're all that expensive. They aren't cheap either. My wife and I plan to drive ours forever.
Quick estimates...
Sandy - '92 FJ80 - Purchase $10,000 in 2000 very clean. Sold $2800 2006 with wrinkled body.
Costs during ownership:
Cats $1200 - in shop
Exhaust $1000 - in shop
Brakes ~ $1000+
Trany ~ $500 parts
Tires ~ $800
Ownership costs over 5 years: $11,300
My Grey truck - '96 FZJ80 - Purchase $13,000 in 2003 w/ minor damage.
Mods: ~$11,000
Maintenance: ~$1,500
I'm into it so far for about $24,500. Planned mods will add another $5,000 or so to it over the next 2 years.
Will never sell it.
Wife's Red truck - '96 FZJ80 - Purchase $9,200 in 2006 bad paint & dings.
White glove insured shipping with pickup: $1,300
Damage done in shipping: $1,700
Time taken for settlement with shipper: 8 months
Settled amount: $1,400
Repainted hood & buffed whole truck: $800
Mods: $450
Maintenance: $250
I'm into it so far for about $12,750. Planned mods will add another $2,000 or so to it over the next 2 years.
Will never sell it.
Over our 80s ownership the last 5 years we've put about $48,000 into them. So, Dan's right. Don't buy one of these for cheap expecting that to be the end of the expenses. If you can't afford to pay cash for one, you probably shouldn't be buying it.
We thought about passing the '92 on to some needy friends who couldn't afford to buy a car. It didn't take much thought to realize that would be more curse than blessing. Thats why I took my time and sold the '92 to someone here on Ih8mud. I wanted to make sure it was going to someone who knew what they were getting into.
If you're willing to maintain it and can afford to own it, these are great vehicles. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, a used Camry would be a better bet.
Above is IMHO. Yeah, you can play with these cheaper. I haven't cut corners on mine and I like it that way. YMMV.
First off, It sounds like half of you guys are loaded. Thats great, I'm not. I'm a total newb around here but I didn't decide to purchase an 80 because they were expensive to keep up, in fact it was just the opposite. I have a small family and my ford escort was not doing the job and my jeeps always sat idle waiting on parts/wrenching. It became a neccesity to own a larger vehicle that could comfotably fit the family and take the place of the jeeps. I have the jeeps up for sale right now. I am figuring on true ownership costs of no more than $1500 bucks a year (not counting gas) and here is how I come up with that figure:
purchase price $7400
imediate mods $1600
Maintenance estimate over the next five years $3000
Sell rig for depreciated price of around $4500
This of course is if everything goes right which is why I have taken the time to Carfax around 15 cruisers, test drive a quarter of those, and finally take one in to my mechanic for a complete inspection. I also insisted on purchasing a vehicle with factory lockers regardless of the fact that I will rarely use them just so my resale value will be as high as possible.
Now compare those figures to my Ford Escort:
Purchased new for 14,000 (total price including interest)
maintenance costs over 6 years aprox. $3700
resale value now maybe $3000 to a dumb buyer.
Cost of ownership if sold now=$2450/year!!!!
Now as a total newby (but hopefully not an ignorant one), I firmly believe that a used and frugally purchased 80 will cost you less to own for the first 5 years than any new car on the market today. Of course long term ownership sets these costs off. My escort thinks its an 80 and sounds like a kitten after 140,000 miles so if I'm lucky it may make it another 5 years without much maintenance eventually making it a very cheap car to own.
I hope you don't have a character limit for new guys because If so I may have outspoken my welcome, lol. And remember I am a newb so if you think I'm crazy go easy!
purchase price $7400
imediate mods $1600
Maintenance estimate over the next five years $3000
Sell rig for depreciated price of around $4500
This of course is if everything goes right which is why I have taken the time to Carfax around 15 cruisers, test drive a quarter of those, and finally take one in to my mechanic for a complete inspection. I also insisted on purchasing a vehicle with factory lockers regardless of the fact that I will rarely use them just so my resale value will be as high as possible.
Now compare those figures to my Ford Escort:
Purchased new for 14,000 (total price including interest)
maintenance costs over 6 years aprox. $3700
resale value now maybe $3000 to a dumb buyer.
Cost of ownership if sold now=$2450/year!!!!
Now as a total newby (but hopefully not an ignorant one), I firmly believe that a used and frugally purchased 80 will cost you less to own for the first 5 years than any new car on the market today. Of course long term ownership sets these costs off. My escort thinks its an 80 and sounds like a kitten after 140,000 miles so if I'm lucky it may make it another 5 years without much maintenance eventually making it a very cheap car to own.
I hope you don't have a character limit for new guys because If so I may have outspoken my welcome, lol. And remember I am a newb so if you think I'm crazy go easy!
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I have a slightly different take.
Since I do most of the maintenance myself, the truck is actually cheaper to maintain. I haven't done that on any car or truck I have owned, except for my 40's. My wife's car goes to the dealer unless it's something simple.
Since I baselined the truck and fixed stuff that needed fixing after I have bought it, I have had no maintenance issues other than changing oil.
On the other hand, due to wheeling I have had some repairs.
Now the mods can be pricey. A 80 with lockers and sliders, lift and 285's is probably about $2500ish. That is sufficient to wheel the 80 in most places and have no issues. Add a front bumper and thats another $700-$800. Rear Bumper $1400- $2000. So to mod the truck so you can wheel your truck on intermediate trails with little concern for damage or capability, you need $2500- $5000.
Now some of us are just strange and can never finish with a project and want the perfect truck. Supercharger, New HG, Clean Fuel Injector's, Outback Drawers, Frig, 35 tires and re-gearing will set you back another $8000- $10,000 if you want a fully modded truck.
But then my truck is still cheaper than the last 3 I have bought my wife, and I will keep it a lot longer.
Reliability and maintenance to me is not expensive once you get your truck "baselined" and if you do the work yourself . It's the desire for that perfect truck that gets you.
Hmmm, I wonder how much those extended fuel tanks are . . . .
Since I do most of the maintenance myself, the truck is actually cheaper to maintain. I haven't done that on any car or truck I have owned, except for my 40's. My wife's car goes to the dealer unless it's something simple.
Since I baselined the truck and fixed stuff that needed fixing after I have bought it, I have had no maintenance issues other than changing oil.
On the other hand, due to wheeling I have had some repairs.
Now the mods can be pricey. A 80 with lockers and sliders, lift and 285's is probably about $2500ish. That is sufficient to wheel the 80 in most places and have no issues. Add a front bumper and thats another $700-$800. Rear Bumper $1400- $2000. So to mod the truck so you can wheel your truck on intermediate trails with little concern for damage or capability, you need $2500- $5000.
Now some of us are just strange and can never finish with a project and want the perfect truck. Supercharger, New HG, Clean Fuel Injector's, Outback Drawers, Frig, 35 tires and re-gearing will set you back another $8000- $10,000 if you want a fully modded truck.
But then my truck is still cheaper than the last 3 I have bought my wife, and I will keep it a lot longer.
Reliability and maintenance to me is not expensive once you get your truck "baselined" and if you do the work yourself . It's the desire for that perfect truck that gets you.
Hmmm, I wonder how much those extended fuel tanks are . . . .
WOW! I work as ageneral sales manager for a high line used car dealership in Illinois . I recently bought a 1994 Landcruiser for $6000 . good deal , maybe . I am lucky to be able to purchase such a nice vehicle for such a low price. but by no means is this a $30 - $40k vehicle. The one thing you all miss , and excuse me for my bluntness , is market. market very simply meaning , in my opinon and that of my industry , depreciation and resale value. Granted at one point the 80 series was worth as high as $50,000 + brand new , but so was the ford excursion! I wouldnt pay fifty for either! Also granted the capability of the landcruiser is far greater than the excursion , but they are both used and you can buy a comparably equipped 2001 excursion for the same price as a 1994 landcruiser. resale is always higher on a better vehicle. Better meaning build quality and maintenance. but a 12 year old vehicle is 12 YEARS OLD!!! Why sink money into something with depreciating resale value. The more you put in, the more you lose. Buy cheap , it hurts less in the long run.
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- #26
Aslan I think you missed the point.
I was not suggesting that they are currently worth that kind of money.
The parts and labor are. They think it's still a new car.
I was not suggesting that they are currently worth that kind of money.
The parts and labor are. They think it's still a new car.
And more to the point, the engineering and quailty of the vehicle is worth that. As long as you maintain this vehicle, it will run forever. Look at some of these 40 and 30 year old FJ40's still around. And they are now worth more than they were new. They were much cheaper back then, but the same engineering concepts.
Besides, no one buys a Land Cruiser with resale in mind. I bought mine for what it could do. On the other hand, your $6000 LC will probably be able to sell for $4000 in 5 years.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
We get asked about buying a 80 series on a weekly basis. I always tell people that if they are stretching themselves financially to purchase the vehicle and they are not DIY, then pass and look at any other Toyota product like a 4Runner or something like that.
People come to us with a $2k modification budget and they are all excited. We look the vehicle over and it needs $2k of maintenance. Their bubble is burst and they don't know what to do.
The reliability of this vehicle comes from the 1st owner buying it, driving it for 100k miles, only change the oil, minor service that the dealer does and that is in. 2nd and 3rd owner is the one that get the sack of patatoes.
The good thing is that most part of the 80 is rebuildable. The catch is that there are very little parts that you can buy at Napa/Checkers etc. So the perception is that the 80 parts are expensive. They are not, compared to most other vehicles if you buy brand new parts. Go buy some Chevy Duramax filers, or Dodge truck brake pads. What aftermarket parts are available are normally are normally of inferior quality.
As Ashlan says, they are 12 years old, most have been neglected (compared to Mud overmaintained standards) and they need work. But if you spend the time and money, then they will be a nice vehicle to own. If you get in a 10 year old 100k mile Ford Expedition, compared to a Land Cruiser, it will not be the same. The original built quality and desing is what allows it to be used way beyond most of the competion.
But for the newbies, you have to buy it with eyes open, and not have your longtime obsession clouding your decisions. Be prepared to walk away from a bad one, be prepared to pay for a good one.
People come to us with a $2k modification budget and they are all excited. We look the vehicle over and it needs $2k of maintenance. Their bubble is burst and they don't know what to do.
The reliability of this vehicle comes from the 1st owner buying it, driving it for 100k miles, only change the oil, minor service that the dealer does and that is in. 2nd and 3rd owner is the one that get the sack of patatoes.
The good thing is that most part of the 80 is rebuildable. The catch is that there are very little parts that you can buy at Napa/Checkers etc. So the perception is that the 80 parts are expensive. They are not, compared to most other vehicles if you buy brand new parts. Go buy some Chevy Duramax filers, or Dodge truck brake pads. What aftermarket parts are available are normally are normally of inferior quality.
As Ashlan says, they are 12 years old, most have been neglected (compared to Mud overmaintained standards) and they need work. But if you spend the time and money, then they will be a nice vehicle to own. If you get in a 10 year old 100k mile Ford Expedition, compared to a Land Cruiser, it will not be the same. The original built quality and desing is what allows it to be used way beyond most of the competion.
But for the newbies, you have to buy it with eyes open, and not have your longtime obsession clouding your decisions. Be prepared to walk away from a bad one, be prepared to pay for a good one.
I could not agree more...
Great post Dan!
It would be very wrong to buy one of these and not expect to spend money to keep it up.
As my dearly departed Dad used to say:
There ain't no right way to do a wrong thing!
Great post Dan!
It would be very wrong to buy one of these and not expect to spend money to keep it up.
As my dearly departed Dad used to say:
There ain't no right way to do a wrong thing!
Gulp... 
FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
I bought my 96 and was stickered at $52.9k but actually paid 45K for it. I don't care about resale value because I'm planning to keep it and all the other Cruisers I have for a very long time and yes it's worth it. I didn't buy these vehicles as an investment, I bought them to have fun. Now if somebody offers me fifty grand on my 96 Cruiser, I'll politely decline and tell them to find an Excursion instead.
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Well Said
I purchased my 96 Eighty in 2000. Best buck I ever spent.
ALLINFUN
I purchased my 96 Eighty in 2000. Best buck I ever spent.
ALLINFUN
FJ809496TLC - how many cars do you have, and how many bought it brand spanking new? 
FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
FJ809496TLC - how many cars do you have, and how many bought it brand spanking new?
Landpimp has more.
I bought most of mine new.
zcruiser
Needs monitoring
I guess I'll find out...
Had a 62 for about 18 months, it had been well-maintained and I only put 4K miles on it in the time I had it but rebuilt the starter and replaced water pump and all hoses and belts. Did the work myself so didn't cost much more than parts and a couple weekends. Odo read 202.5K when I sold it.
Moved from the 62 to an 1994 FZJ80 because it was deemed by my family to be a better fit for our uses. 192K on the clock, but I know it was well-maintained as well because the family owned an auto shop and I have all the records. I don't expect the repairs on the 80 to be as easy as they were on the 62, but I'll do what I can. HG and PHH are inevitable. will watch this thread/forum closely for correct PM and signs of imminent doom.
Had a 62 for about 18 months, it had been well-maintained and I only put 4K miles on it in the time I had it but rebuilt the starter and replaced water pump and all hoses and belts. Did the work myself so didn't cost much more than parts and a couple weekends. Odo read 202.5K when I sold it.
Moved from the 62 to an 1994 FZJ80 because it was deemed by my family to be a better fit for our uses. 192K on the clock, but I know it was well-maintained as well because the family owned an auto shop and I have all the records. I don't expect the repairs on the 80 to be as easy as they were on the 62, but I'll do what I can. HG and PHH are inevitable. will watch this thread/forum closely for correct PM and signs of imminent doom.
Grench
SILVER Star
Interesting...
People who have owned these trucks for a few years realize that if you're planning to keep it forever, they need some love. Maintenance isn't cheap, but IMHO is far cheaper than buying new vehicles of this caliber.
The new guys are soiling themselves over the numbers we're throwing around. Don't panic guys, but DO count on spending about $1000 a year minimum for maintenance. Double to triple that for one year somewhere around 120,000 miles. Then after you're done doing the litany of maintenance bits for the 10 year/120,000 mile axle bearings/birfields/U-joints/rotors/t-stat/hoses/belts/air intake hose/etc... Once you're done with it, from what I can tell you're set for the next 6 years or so and back to the $1000 a year rate. We're replacing/fixing/repacking a LOT of wear parts now because a lot of these trucks are around the 120,000 mile range.
So, if you'd rather go out and spend $45,000 every 4-6 years on a new GM product X and you have the cash to do it, go right ahead. 20 years from now I'll have about $120,000 in my two FZJ80s. The new car every 5 years gets you $200,000+inflation.
Yep mods cost money, time or both. Yep. No denying it. They aren't required for membership either last I checked. Just an addiction to these trucks.
People who have owned these trucks for a few years realize that if you're planning to keep it forever, they need some love. Maintenance isn't cheap, but IMHO is far cheaper than buying new vehicles of this caliber.
The new guys are soiling themselves over the numbers we're throwing around. Don't panic guys, but DO count on spending about $1000 a year minimum for maintenance. Double to triple that for one year somewhere around 120,000 miles. Then after you're done doing the litany of maintenance bits for the 10 year/120,000 mile axle bearings/birfields/U-joints/rotors/t-stat/hoses/belts/air intake hose/etc... Once you're done with it, from what I can tell you're set for the next 6 years or so and back to the $1000 a year rate. We're replacing/fixing/repacking a LOT of wear parts now because a lot of these trucks are around the 120,000 mile range.
So, if you'd rather go out and spend $45,000 every 4-6 years on a new GM product X and you have the cash to do it, go right ahead. 20 years from now I'll have about $120,000 in my two FZJ80s. The new car every 5 years gets you $200,000+inflation.
Yep mods cost money, time or both. Yep. No denying it. They aren't required for membership either last I checked. Just an addiction to these trucks.
I think the $1000 a year maintenance is way high unless your paying someone else to do the work.
You could rebuild both front and rear axles and swap the rotors and brake pads and Flush fill, change fluids. spark plugs, dist cap, rotor, wires, PCV, fuel filter, starter contacts, PHH could be done all for less than $1000 for someone who wants to do the work themselves.
Then after that, it's simply oil changes, lube and an occasional flush.
Maybe one year a new fan clutch ~$120 or and intake hose.
A head Gasket is about $500 if you do it yourself or $1500 to have someone else do it (includes head work).
I really don't think the PM is bad once you get it baselined.
You could rebuild both front and rear axles and swap the rotors and brake pads and Flush fill, change fluids. spark plugs, dist cap, rotor, wires, PCV, fuel filter, starter contacts, PHH could be done all for less than $1000 for someone who wants to do the work themselves.
Then after that, it's simply oil changes, lube and an occasional flush.
Maybe one year a new fan clutch ~$120 or and intake hose.
A head Gasket is about $500 if you do it yourself or $1500 to have someone else do it (includes head work).
I really don't think the PM is bad once you get it baselined.
This is a great thread and THANK YOU for putting it up! Perhaps one of the threads referenced by CDan was mine asking for general PM costs--dunno--but the original post here by CDan is a very good point. No one should live in a fantasy world when it comes to owning any high-mileage vehicle, Cruiser or otherwise. But whereas other domestic high-mileage trucks get iffy all over the place, it seems the Cruiser is simply built for more longevity and that's what I want (along with the diffs and other yummy bits).
I'd much rather pay for maintenance on a Cruiser and own it three to four times as long than drop coin every 5 years on some domestic pail that gets beat to pieces. In the long term, investing in the maintenance of one high-quality vehicle typically is cheaper than constant turn-over. I'm done with putting up with short-term, low build quality domestic trucks--as is evidenced by the fact I'm ditching a newer one with half the miles for an 80!
Good stuff costs money. Cheap stuff costs more money, IMHO.
I'd much rather pay for maintenance on a Cruiser and own it three to four times as long than drop coin every 5 years on some domestic pail that gets beat to pieces. In the long term, investing in the maintenance of one high-quality vehicle typically is cheaper than constant turn-over. I'm done with putting up with short-term, low build quality domestic trucks--as is evidenced by the fact I'm ditching a newer one with half the miles for an 80!
Good stuff costs money. Cheap stuff costs more money, IMHO.
Doesn't this so often turn out to be the case. I figure five or ten years down the road it will ring true of my Land Cruiser purchase as well.
