Shift shock in 2017 200 Series

[linuxgod]

Does it in both modes.

Fair enough, had to ask. I'd just thought of it since while it was a totally different vehicle my old '08 Acura MDX had a 2->1 shock when I would drive it in S mode instead of D. In that case I think the transmission was trying to hold gears longer to simulate manual transmission performance, rather than letting the torque converter disengage when you would come to a stop.

Are you guys all on stock tires or is anyone running 33s or taller? I suspect this issue has to do with how the transmission ECU chooses the gear based on engine load, wheel speed, etc. It's something Toyota could adjust with a software update, with the downside that performance might end up feeling sluggish. Curious if larger tire sizes might mask - or exacerbate - the issue.

If it's bothering anyone tremendously let me know and I'll be glad to swap your 2018-2021 with my 2013 which doesn't have this problem

 

[brenorman]

There seems to be two distinct issues. One is rough shifting in gears 1-3, esp at high rpms. This is an issue that particularly played the 2016 through 2017 models, and supposedly was fixed with a TSB. In my experience, it improved this problem but shifting is still rougher than a 85k car should.

The second is the shock when engaging the throttle after slowing down and coasting. I spoke with a long time Toyota mechanic who feels like it’s a problem on a lot of 5.7 liter engines and this transmission.

in either case the land cruiser was amazing in all this snow but overall I’ll be getting rid of it because the shifting drives me INSANE.

 

[04UZJ100]

There seems to be two distinct issues. One is rough shifting in gears 1-3, esp at high rpms. This is an issue that particularly played the 2016 through 2017 models, and supposedly was fixed with a TSB. In my experience, it improved this problem but shifting is still rougher than a 85k car should.

The second is the shock when engaging the throttle after slowing down and coasting. I spoke with a long time Toyota mechanic who feels like it’s a problem on a lot of 5.7 liter engines and this transmission.

in either case the land cruiser was amazing in all this snow but overall I’ll be getting rid of it because the shifting drives me INSANE.

Harsh upshifting from 1-2 on the 6 speed is present as well under full throttle.
I prefer the behavior of the 6 speed in my 14 to the 8 in my 20. Years

Not a problem - just poor software implementation.

 

[linuxgod]

Harsh upshifting from 1-2 on the 6 speed is present as well under full throttle.
I prefer the behavior of the 6 speed in my 14 to the 8 in my 20. Years

Not a problem - just poor software implementation.

I recall reading Toyota/Aisin implemented a feature where the transmission shifts to neutral between downshifts in an attempt to improve economy. I cannot verify if the 8 speed in the Cruiser has this ‘feature’.

I can't blame Toyota for a harsh shift if you're under full throttle. I guess it'd be nice if ECO vs PWR setting changed the behavior, but if your foot is on the floor you're attempting to maximize power, not comfort. You shouldn't feel it under light throttle though - that's a tuning failing for sure.

Years ago when I had the transmission rebuilt in my '66 Mustang the mechanic asked me if I wanted it set up for soft "comfort" shifts or for performance. Being 18 I of course chose performance. It was perfectly normal around town, but under foot-to-the-floor throttle the shift from 1-2 would cause the rear tires to chirp and break the rear end loose a bit at ~45 mph. That's obviously a MUCH older transmission, but still even ~25 years ago these things are tunable.

Shifts should be rev-matched where possible. On an upshift that means briefly moving through neutral to let the RPMs drop. On a downshift it should be the engine gets revved up to match. I'm not an expert on how this gets done in a modern A/T vehicle but I would think this would be some combination of the engine ECU and the A/T ECU talking to each other. I can rev match myself in a M/T with some careful heel-toe action. But perhaps it's not quite that sophisticated and thus much like my example above Toyota engineers are forced to choose how this works based on certain scenarios they are optimizing for?

 

[unclemat]

Not a sample to sample variation. It’s a characteristic of how people drive that can exacerbate it. Both of our 2020 200s and all 3 that I test drove do the same thing.

Try slowly coasting to a slow roll, below 10mph, and then lightly hitting the gas. You’ll feel it.

As I said they all shift. But it does not feel so severe/abrupt on all of them. Well, for me sample of three:

1. Test drove a 2021 in Nov. Did not notice anything, but very short drive, maybe 4 miles, and did not know this is something to look for. Felt smooth. Did not notice the whine, either.
2. Test drove a 2021 in Jan. Immediately noticed slamming from 2 to 1. Put 6 miles on it and did it several times during the drive. Also noticed 1st gear whine.
3. Test drove another 2021 later in Jan that I ended up buying. Was looking for the issue and could not reproduce it. I feel the downshift to 1st but it does not slam. Put 150 miles on it and did not do it once. However it has the 1st gear whine.

That's all I know.

 

[OneLessThing]

There seems to be two distinct issues. One is rough shifting in gears 1-3, esp at high rpms. This is an issue that particularly played the 2016 through 2017 models, and supposedly was fixed with a TSB. In my experience, it improved this problem but shifting is still rougher than a 85k car should.

The second is the shock when engaging the throttle after slowing down and coasting. I spoke with a long time Toyota mechanic who feels like it’s a problem on a lot of 5.7 liter engines and this transmission.

in either case the land cruiser was amazing in all this snow but overall I’ll be getting rid of it because the shifting drives me INSANE.

It's interesting--the rough shift (what I call a "shudder") when gearing up 1 -> 2 is exacerbated for me by when I accelerate slowly. Flooring it sort of hides the shudder, but isn't how I drive in traffic.

There is definite shock when coasting to a stop as the car attempts to rev match...but that shock for me is still only between gears 2 & 1. They might indeed be separate issues--the tech is over my head.

Having lusted over this car for years, I hope it doesn't come to selling. I love everything else about it. But, yes, INSANE annoyance over the shifting.

 

[105X]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned before, but have you tried driving with the 2ND start?

 

[brenorman]

Mine doesn’t have 2nd start. It has ECT. I keep it on all the time but there’s no change in the shift shock on or off.

 

[OneLessThing]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned before, but have you tried driving with the 2ND start?

I have tried. It mostly alleviates the issue...but I have to remember to turn it on every time I start the vehicle and it makes the car pretty sluggish. I'm guessing it might also use more gas if that becomes my SOP?

ECT 2nd doesn't help with coasting to a stop. The car still engages 1st gear as it slows so you get shift shock on the way down no matter what.

 

[04UZJ100]

Mine doesn’t have 2nd start. It has ECT. I keep it on all the time but there’s no change in the shift shock on or off.

All cruisers have 2nd start.

 

[unclemat]

Are you guys all on stock tires or is anyone running 33s or taller? I suspect this issue has to do with how the transmission ECU chooses the gear based on engine load, wheel speed, etc. It's something Toyota could adjust with a software update, with the downside that performance might end up feeling sluggish. Curious if larger tire sizes might mask - or exacerbate - the issue.

There is a thread that says going with larger tires makes 8-speed behave better.

Here: The 8-Speed Transmission was Designed for Bigger Tires - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-8-speed-transmission-was-designed-for-bigger-tires.1043176/

 

[WkndProject]

I’m experiencing a hard/jerky shift from 2nd to 3rd on my ‘21. Started yesterday, and occurred again today, only 600miles. Any known occurrences after the 2017 update?

Both times it occurred after a brief 10 min drive, go into store/restaurant, then hard shifting back home.

an update on the above.
At 1000mi, the hard shift is no longer evident. Not sure if it was still in learning mode or some transient break-in event, but all normal now.

 

[DM76052]

I have a 2021 HE. I sure do hope it goes away. As soon as I got in it I expected it. I have had 3 different 2016 LC's at 3 different times. All of them that I have had do the same thing. Hard shift between 1st and 2nd, and if you are coming to a rolling stop and then gently accelerate it gets confused and then slams in / out of gear. My 16's also hard shifted on a quick accelleration on the highway.

Needless to say, on the 16/17's all you had to do is go to the dealership and beg them to perform the update, and send them the .pdf.

But unfortunately I just found out that there is no fix for my 21. Minor annoyance is an understamtent if you are OCD. I haven't sold my 2016 yet. I am about to drive this 2021 off a bridge and get back in to my 2016.

Here is the .pdf to send to your Toyota tech if you are one of the lucky ones driving a 16/17. If you are driving anything new, or potentially a 2021, I would love any feedback you have. Maybe @Eric Sarjeant has seen this on the 20/21 and knows of anything that can help us out?

https://toyotatalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/T-SB-0209-17.pdf

 

[04UZJ100]

The programming between an updated 2016 and 2021 is identical. The car shifts to 1st when decelerating at the 10mph mark, every time. When reapplying the throttle before coming to a complete stop you get abrupt re-engagement of the drivetrain. There is nothing you can do about it except feather the gas.

 

[DM76052]

@04UZJ100 have you had the update done at the dealership on a 16? I agree with you that there is nothing you can do about the 20 yet which is a Toyota oversight because its the same transmission. But I have solved this issue with 3 LC's now. Happens before the update, never happens again.

Don't settle

 

[DM76052]

solved it on 16's *** have not solved it on my 21. Because Toyota knows better than us

 

[WkndProject]

solved it on 16's *** have not solved it on my 21. Because Toyota knows better than us

Mine is at 1700 miles now and has behaved. I noticed it repeatedly between 600mi and 1000mi. Not sure why it went away, but glad it did. It wasn’t the decelerate then accelerate clunk....it was when accelerating from a stop.

 

[DM76052]

You’re giving me hope that mine is still “learning”!

 

[MrX]

Hi all,
New member here. I've been poking around the internet machine researching what seems to be "shift shock". When the engine is not warm, there is a rough transition shifting between 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. I have around 500 miles on it and it's done this through all of those miles. Does anyone have any thoughts? Once the engine is warmed up, it starts shifting smoothly. Any help would be great.
Thanks!

I wouldn't worry about it. Not one bit.