Shift front axle forward?

[landtank]

If I remember Kidglove13 used the iron man plates to correct caster. These plates move the axle toward the rear from tilting the axle. I drew it up and from memory it's around a 1/2".

So you are only actually moving the axle forward when you go beyond that point. Up until then you are just correcting for the error created by the caster plates.

 

[Ebag333]

So you are only actually moving the axle forward when you go beyond that point. Up until then you are just correcting for the error created by the caster plates.

How do your plates move the axle? I recall you said it rotates more than moves, yes?

Have you ever tried fitting 37's LT?

 

[kidglove13]

If I remember Kidglove13 used the iron man plates to correct caster. These plates move the axle toward the rear from tilting the axle. I drew it up and from memory it's around a 1/2".

So you are only actually moving the axle forward when you go beyond that point. Up until then you are just correcting for the error created by the caster plates.

Correct I do use Ironman plates and they do move the axle back but very little
The axle is moved more back merely because, as you know, that when you lift the truck you are pushing the axle down into its travel arc which in turn locates the axle back farther because of the lift
It is more exargerated with more lift
The front springs should run fron perch to perch without have any bend or misaligment which is what happens when you lift over 4 inches
Thats is also why when guys lift 4 inches and above the front inside coil bump stops soometimes hit the insides of the coils when the suspension compresses because the springs are not at the right angle to the axle after the lift
I could be wrong but that is what I see.

 

[landtank]

How do your plates move the axle? I recall you said it rotates more than moves, yes?

Have you ever tried fitting 37's LT?

my plates rotates the axle on it's axis so the axle's distance from the frame mount remains the same after they are installed.

I've never tried fitting 37s but I would think that someone has.

 

[kidglove13]

The ironman plates rotate the axle on the back arm bolt unlike LT's plates but the axle back movement is minimal
But what do I know

 

[landtank]

Correct I do use Ironman plates and they do move the axle back but very little
The axle is moved more back merely because, as you know, that when you lift the truck you are pushing the axle down into its travel arc which in turn locates the axle back farther because of the lift
It is more exargerated with more lift
The front springs should run fron perch to perch without have any bend or misaligment which is what happens when you lift over 4 inches
Thats is also why when guys lift 4 inches and above the front inside coil bump stops soometimes hit the insides of the coils when the suspension compresses because the springs are not at the right angle to the axle after the lift
I could be wrong but that is what I see.

While at rest the axle is further back but what is of concern is when you compress the axle back up. It then moves forward back to where it was.

I agree that it isn't a lot but it will contribute to tire rubbing in the rear and is responsible for the springs contacting the bump stops.

I mentioned this so people could understand what is going on and gauge how far beyond the factory position they are moving the axle. And from what I've been reading people have this idea that all plates are created equal. There are quite a few out there now and lumping all the different experiences into one and drawing a single conclusion really isn't going to work for everyone.

 

[kidglove13]

While at rest the axle is further back but what is of concern is when you compress the axle back up. It then moves forward back to where it was.

I agree that it isn't a lot but it will contribute to tire rubbing in the rear and is responsible for the springs contacting the bump stops.

I mentioned this so people could understand what is going on and gauge how far beyond the factory position they are moving the axle. And from what I've been reading people have this idea that all plates are created equal. There are quite a few out there now and lumping all the different experiences into one and drawing a single conclusion really isn't going to work for everyone.

I agree 100% with you
I just did what I thought would work for my rig with my axle and situation and it seems to have helped alot with adjusting the axle placement with 5-6 inches of lift combined with the Ironman plates
Others seem to run 37's without issue and some have issue it seems but I dont know what set up they are running
I do what works for me and maybe it will help others with similar setups
My truck is becoming less and less street freindly these days so there will be more suspension mods in the near future beyond the stock confiuration

 

[Tools R Us]

When deciding how much to move the axle, be sure to check clearance when fully compressed and flexed. Mine is slightly too far forward, tire can touch the bumper, the front of the wheel wells have been massaged.

 

[Ebag333]

When deciding how much to move the axle, be sure to check clearance when fully compressed and flexed. Mine is slightly too far forward, tire can touch the bumper, the front of the wheel wells have been massaged.

How did you move yours, same as previously posted?

 

[Tools R Us]

How did you move yours, same as previously posted?

Made new arms.

 

[Ebag333]

Made new arms.

D'oh, right. I knew that.

 

[-Spike-]

When deciding how much to move the axle, be sure to check clearance when fully compressed and flexed. Mine is slightly too far forward, tire can touch the bumper, the front of the wheel wells have been massaged.

Seems like the obvious question here is, how much did you move your axle forward?

 

[Tools R Us]

Seems like the obvious question here is, how much did you move your axle forward?

Don't know, never measured. Drew the stock arms, moved the front bushing bolt center points down the same distance as the lift amount. So the axle at ride height is in the same relative position as stock, just further away from the body/frame.

It looks great at ride height, tires centered in the wheel wells. The problem is when compressed, it's the worst when fully flexed, the arms are too long, moves the tires into the bumper/front of the wheel well. With big tires there isn't much room, best to design for full compression/flex. Also the caster is more than I prefer, so if I make another set, they will be shorter and have a couple of degrees less caster.

 

[Ebag333]

Okay, so I've been probably putting way too much thought (and time!) into this, but a couple of other ideas have come up.


One, wristed radius arm.

This seems to be a popular mod for Bronco's, but one of the reasons they like it is that they can run wristed arms instead of lengthened arms and fit the same size tire.

The working theory seems to be that as the axle is compressed on one side and lowered on the other, you have the two radius arms trying to twist the axle in opposite directions. By wristing one arm, you eliminate that. According to what I'm reading, it's that binding/twisting that pulls the axle back, so by eliminating it you're essentially shifting the axle forward at compression.

Seems like wristing a stock arm should be pretty simple (and I may have a line on some custom arms).



The other is...a RAOA...kinda like a SOA but with Radius Arms.

Yes, this topic has been thrashed over before but if I could get some custom arms made to fit without the issue of the stock arms (huge swoop)..... This would also have the effect of pushing the axle a bit further forward on compression (but might not be enough).



Thoughts?

 

[Tools R Us]

The wristed radius arm has been done and doesn't gain much on the '80. They are both radius arm, but the bronco has different attachment and length, so what is needed differs.

The biggest flex limiter on the '80 is arm to axle end bracket interference. When flexed, the compressed arm becomes effectively longer, the drooped shorter, this makes the axle angled in comparison to the frame. When fully flexed, the arms will hit one side of the brackets on the front and the other side on the rear of the axle brackets. This binds travel, greatly limiting flex. So narrower arms and/or wider brackets will increase flex, reduce flex spring rate.

 

[Ebag333]

The biggest flex limiter on the '80 is arm to axle end bracket interference. When flexed, the compressed arm becomes effectively longer, the drooped shorter, this makes the axle angled in comparison to the frame. When fully flexed, the arms will hit one side of the brackets on the front and the other side on the rear of the axle brackets. This binds travel, greatly limiting flex. So narrower arms and/or wider brackets will increase flex, reduce flex spring rate.

I know you're all hot and bothered about your narrow arms, but what you're describing is what the wristed arm is supposed to reduce or eliminate. Way I understand it wristed arms should also work similar for reducing binding, similar to your narrow arms and/or wider brackets. One might do better than the other, but seems to be two different methods to fix the same problem.

I've seen wristed arms for the 80 before (Aus site), but don't think I've seen any documentation on someone actually running them.

 

[-Spike-]

I've seen wristed arms for the 80 before (Aus site), but don't think I've seen any documentation on someone actually running them.

Talk to LandCruiserPhil (A good friend of Tools') who ran a wristed arm on his black beast before anyone was selling aftermarket 80 parts in the US.

 

[BamaPaul]

Subscribed!!!

 

[Tools R Us]

I'm not "hot and bothered" about anything, just sharing info. If you think that you are the first to notice wristed arms on a ford, well, you would be wrong. It's your build and I don't care, you are welcome to go down the same dead ended streets that others have already traveled.

 

[Ebag333]

I'm not "hot and bothered" about anything, just sharing info.

You sure "share" it a lot. ;p

If you think that you are the first to notice wristed arms on a ford, well, you would be wrong. It's your build and I don't care, you are welcome to go down the same dead ended streets that others have already traveled.

Really doubt I'm the first to look at wristed arms, but not like there are a lot of custom arm choices out there to begin with.

Can't even find any of those slender arms that are supposed to be uber, can you point me to a distributor?

Regardless, I'd like to hear more than just "it doesn't work well" before deciding on something. If you want to provide details, I'd love to hear them. But so far you haven't exactly shared a whole lot on info on wristed arms. ;p