SBC vs 2F

[toyotalandfj40]

I was thinking last night, whats the point of getting a small block Chevy in your FJ?

I mean, yes, be nice to have that power, but for offroading purposes....wouldn't a well tuned 2F do equally the same. The most that I ever have done for a 2F was make it fuel injected with a TBI, but that's as far as I will go.

Above that, which has better quality parts? And which will last longer without depriciating in power swiftly?

And the last thing is....space....how big of a pain will it be to work on anything in your engine bay with that wider engine in, compared to the narrower 2F engine.

I just wish to get input from both sides and try to get my mind to see which side is better. (And more power is not a good argument.....)

 

[Mace]

There is no better or worse, only different.

And honestly, if you do not care if there is more power. Then you have no reason to swap out the 2F (unless it is junked)

Better quality is a hard one. Most modern V8's are getting a significantly higher lifespan. 200K is not out of the ball park.

Most modern V8's do not have flat tappet cams in them. SO you can actually use whatever oil you want to in them. It's a much better design and easier to live with.

There is plenty of room in a 40's engine compartment. Room is not really an issue..

 

[toyotalandfj40]

There is no better or worse, only different.

And honestly, if you do not care if there is more power. Then you have no reason to swap out the 2F (unless it is junked)

Better quality is a hard one. Most modern V8's are getting a significantly higher lifespan. 200K is not out of the ball park.

Most modern V8's do not have flat tappet cams in them. SO you can actually use whatever oil you want to in them. It's a much better design and easier to live with.

There is plenty of room in a 40's engine compartment. Room is not really an issue..

Rather neat, and finally glad the US car industry is improving on that.... Okay, that helps, thank you, just trying to get some of the things in my head to settle really, but always love the sound of a really good straight six.

Thank you.

 

[ken_79-fj40]

For what I spent doing a complete rebuild with a shaved head, cam, and balancing I could have easily installed a 100k mile late model chevy truck engine for a lot less that would have more power and get better mileage. But I do love my fresh 2F. I just never imagined it would cost so much to get it right. It is a forklift engine after all.

 

[Fast Eddy]

Lighter and more power? What's not to like about a v8?

I have two, both with 2fs...

 

[Wasatch Jay]

but always love the sound of a really good straight six.

I much prefer the sound of a good old American V-8!

More seriously; When many people think of a small block Chevy, they think of a carbureted, mid-seventies engine.

But the advancements in the newer Chevrolet engines is beyond huge.

The change from flat tappet cams to roller cams is significant because it allows the engine designer to create a more optimal cam profile. The roller cams and rockers are less friction also.

The computer controlled, multi-port fuel injection allows the computer to constantly monitor the sensors and adjust ignition timing and fuel mapping to create the optimal mix. But again the improvements continue...

Chevrolet is using better metallurgy and now machine tools are pretty much all run by computers and the advances in machining and cutting technology allow engine designers to make parts that they could only dream of before. They can also machine them to much closer tolerances.

The small block Chevy of old had stamped steel valve covers and a stamped steel oil pan. Now they come with machined cast aluminum pieces.

Newer generation engines are easily outlasting older ones with more power, less maintenance, better economy and greater reliability.

I used to own a 1976 Corvette with the L-82 engine. That was the most powerful engine available in a 1976 Corvette and it produced an anemic 210 HP. That's about 50% more than a 2F, but at least 50% less than a new generation small block Chevy.

 

[Roboosfj40s]

No doubt a well running and properly set up V8 is awesome and parts more readidly available (Not Here but are some). But unless you plan to climb trees straight up with all that power then I am guessing that is why they did not come with V8's. I had a cousin back in the late 60's that put a 327 in a 42 Willy's Heep and he couldn't drive the thing safely for all of the extra power it put out and was always breaking stuff lol. If V8's were available here I would most likely have at least one 40 for my romp around headers and cherry bomb blaster just to irritate neighbors haa haa. To each his own.

 

[reddingcruiser]

I've had 'em both and I like 'em both. But, I like the parts availability for the late model SBC, I like that the ECM can adjust the engine to compensate for differing conditions, I like the idea of "creating" something different, I LIKE the horsepower and I certainly like the gas milage.
When I did my first SBC conversion it was choice between rebuilding my tired, old F engine, or getting a good running, late model SBC and putting the money into the adapter parts. I chose the later and never looked back.

 

[CNCFJ40]

Why I love my 2F

If I were an engineer (or just more mechanically capable) I'd probably have more real appreciation for contemporary engine technology. But what I like most about the 2F (and most everything else about Land Cruisers for that matter) is that it's simple enough for me to understand and forgiving enough for me to wrench on. Not knocking SBCs - just knowing my limits.
Cheers!

 

[jmdaniel]

If I were an engineer (or just more mechanically capable) I'd probably have more real appreciation for contemporary engine technology. But what I like most about the 2F (and most everything else about Land Cruisers for that matter) is that it's simple enough for me to understand and forgiving enough for me to wrench on. Not knocking SBCs - just knowing my limits.
Cheers!

SBCs are hard to work on?

 

[Mace]

SBCs are hard to work on?

A modern coil on plug fuel injected motor is black box voodoo to a lot of people..

 

[toyotalandfj40]

Well, as for economy, I can begin to see that, but the cost of maintaining a new v8 is expensive. And then if you ran an old V8 gets expensive as well, and they have their problems. It's just a debate I have in my head, seeing which is better. My TBI 2F engine gave me great gas mileage, I was significantly impressed by it. Went from Los Angeles to Big Bear lake in half a tank, that was nearly doing 18 mpg.

And Chevy is doing great currently with their V8s, but then you are still stuck with an automatic, hard to find a manual gearbox to attach to a new V8, and then putting it to the H42 tranny, yeah, it can take the torque, but the tranny sure as hell won't, needing to pay for a new one of those to replace, and the same with the whole drivetrain really. The thing is, that working with a 2F, makes it simpler to not........make it an easy car to break.

A friend of mine, he has dana 60s front and back, and an LS2 if I recall correctly. He has to keep spare parts for the drivetrain in case his son breaks it. Fortunately, he engineered it to where it's a propshaft he'll break and nothing else, but still, spare parts. And I'm dismissing the spare parts for any Landcruiser, I take points, electrical cable, etc. but still haven't had to change much from the drivetrain since I got the split transfercase (that is a lifesaver).

So, why make it better, when the car was engineered to handle so much? The list of things to change to a V8 seems longer than the 2F, it's doesn't quite seem rational. However, the availability for parts is a God send, would love to have the support like they do everywhere else for 2F parts, but just have to look for it before it goes wrong.

And yes, I know how to work on a V8.

So far
2F advantages: rugidness, simplicity (6 moving parts practically), works with the car greatly, and easy to repair and diagnose.

2F down falls: rare parts, not economical, low power.

V8 advantages: Significantly lighter, easy to find parts, simple (if old), power, almost equal rugidness, good economy, can pass smog test, and more power than needed.

V8 disadvantages: Requires a lot more than just the engine, original drivetrain won't cut it really, can be complicated to repair if new V8, (applies to nearly new V8 only) automatic is almost only option, and (old) break downs more common.

Regardless, everyone breaks down regardless of everything, but still just tossing this out there.

(Did I miss any of the advantages or disadvantages?)

 

[My71FJ40]

I am not an expert in any means, but from what I have gathered is that the V8 has a lot of high end torque which is nice if you want to go 75 on the freeway and spin your tires in mud, whereas the f & 2f motor has better low end torque which is nice if you like to crawl over things. Now if you want to put 35" tires on then the v8 is a better match but then your risking your running gear breaking as mentioned above. I guess it really depends on what you want to do with your cruiser. I prefer mostly stock parts including the F and 2F motors...when done right the are rather dependable motors with enough hp to get where I want to go and get me out of where I go. I have the 3 speed tranny so 55-60 max anyway for me...FJ40's really aren't designed for speed, the Ford GT was. So build for how you intend to drive it because stock set up with stock engine works, V8 means upgrades to handle the hp so your not having premature wear/breakage.

 

[lrowe_csp]

383 stroked SBC, much better torque low down and up high than 2f, used stock 23 year 4-speed for 8 years behind that motor before putting in an oem Toy 5-speed (for the extra gear to get to trail), nothing broken yet. 1970's era block so same vintage as my landcruiser, and no more complicated than 1.5 or 2f. lighter motor, better usable power, hasn't broken anything, but isn't Toyota and undeniably poor gas mileage (carbureted). If I found an unmolested FJ out there, I might sink the cash into a full restoration, otherwise I think there is room for all kinds of engines on mud, and that's what makes this forum so interesting- the talent and ingenuity out there in mudworld is amazing.

 

[crumbo]

I rebuilt my 2F and it cost 3 grand including the head......as I only took it for its first drive today (got to run it in) I can't give any pros or cons yet....but before the rebuild it wouldn't pull the skin off a custard....oh but now I can see that there is loads of potential there now....I am considering installing an hour meter to give the engine the service respect that it deserves....new oils and filters on a regular basis will give you joy forever

 

[msapers]

toyotalandfj40,

"more power than needed" I have never heard anyone sane say "I wish I had much less power". The gas pedal isn't an on/off switch... your options aren't 0 hp or 350hp.

You can never have too much power. Then again I ride a six cylinder motorcycle and I'm looking to install a supercharger on it, so I might not be the most unbiased person when it comes to matters of acceleration.

 

[fj40charles]

I'd much rather have an Jeep 4.0 Inline 6 EFI than an 2F. Better engine with 7 mains.

 

[lcwizard]

[QUOTE=toyotalandfj40
V8 advantages: Significantly lighter, easy to find parts, simple (if old), power, almost equal rugidness, good economy, can pass smog test, and more power than needed.

V8 disadvantages: Requires a lot more than just the engine, original drivetrain won't cut it really, can be complicated to repair if new V8, (applies to nearly new V8 only) automatic is almost only option, and (old) break downs more common.

Nothing wrong with an automatic if you put gearing behind it. Not a single rock crawling competitor that I ever recall won a series with a standard. I'm going back to when ARCA and BFG had true rock "crawling" competitions and not today's rock racing. Our first two years with ARCA we ran an "Air Sensors" injected 2F in front of a SM420 an 4:88's. After lots of Birfs we swapped Dana 60's with 5:86's . Great fun and quite capable but we never got into the top five. Then we went TBI350
to a 2.7 Klune into a 4.0 Atlas and 4:10s. All of a sudden we were competitive
finishing second behind the Curries on the season. There were no standards in the top ten because with gearing an auto will out perform a standard off road and on

 

[alaska60]

The last 5.3 vortec I did is getting 18-20 MPG as well.....That sells me right there! add the savings up on fuel consumption alone. PLUS.....you have over 250 HP under the hood. That makes for long road trips pulling a trailer a bit easier too. Also, chevy vortecs are a dime a dozen now.....I can replace an entire 5.3 fairly cheap. and parts are cheap too.

Just sayin.......

Ohhh.....and you dont have to put an auto tranny in there either....adapters are available to run your h41, h42, h55f even the 3 speeds too. Or you can roll with a chevy auto tranny or a chevy nv4500 and still use your toyota T-case. Hell you can even run torque splitters and get over (+27%) or under (-17%) drive gears..

Auto is not your only option!

 

[Snowdogyyz]

I love the look of the 40 and the sound of a SBC (I have an SBC 400). To me, they just work! However, someday I may want a 40 with a 2F in it and keep it stock. My SBC400 is mated to the stock tranny and TC (4 speed tranny).