Saginaw Steering Malfunction

[rowdyatx]

What he said. Also if your steering box is welded to the mounting plate, might not want to even risk fixing this. Just replace it

Can you explain why it would be a risk fixing it bc it’s welded? I don’t disagree. I’m just learning about all of this...

 

[65swb45]

If you unbolt the brackets that hold the column to the bottom of the dashboard, as well as whatever may anchor it where it passes through the firewall, you should be able to pull the column back. Then you can see if there are any splines left on your worm gear.

 

[peesalot]

steering boxes are cheap, cut that POS off and start over before you get in a wreck cause the sketchy steering. I realize it probably is a fine box & works, BUT, it's a fast ratio which equals more load which has obviously caused something to wear/strip/fail, you need a steering box designed for the WB, size, & demands of the vehicle, A domestic 2wd road car for good roads VS a foreign made overland ute made to operate offroad around the globe off streets. AND it's welded to the frame, start cutting, the rest of us deserve it if you are to drive it on the street.

 

[Oregon FJ40]

Can you explain why it would be a risk fixing it bc it’s welded? I don’t disagree. I’m just learning about all of this...

Welding cast parts isn’t impossible (clearly), but it can cause stress cracks by heating it improperly. And when welding it to plate steel, you are mixing metals which have different melting points. I personally would not want the single piece of equipment on my vehicle that controls the front wheels mounted like that.

 

[rowdyatx]

That looks to be a 60’s camaro MANUAL steering box. What a goofy choice for a 40.

regardless of the problem at hand; the welded on steering box is not safe. Don’t drive the truck until you have a box properly mounted to the frame.

I’m unable to get a good look at the stamp. Is there a way to identify the specific model number?

 

[rowdyatx]

steering boxes are cheap, cut that POS off and start over before you get in a wreck cause the sketchy steering. I realize it probably is a fine box & works, BUT, it's a fast ratio which equals more load which has obviously caused something to wear/strip/fail, you need a steering box designed for the WB, size, & demands of the vehicle, A domestic 2wd road car for good roads VS a foreign made overland ute made to operate offroad around the globe off streets. AND it's welded to the frame, start cutting, the rest of us deserve it if you are to drive it on the street.

What specific model do you recommend I replace it with?

 

[rowdyatx]

I’m unable to get a good look at the stamp. Is there a way to identify the specific model number?

Or which model I should replace I with...

 

[Oregon FJ40]

Or which model I should replace I with...

Read up on the FAQ. There is tons of info on power steering conversions, even parts lists to order everything you need.

I personally bought a power steering kit. Costs considerably more that way, but I don’t have the time/patience to piece a setup together.

 

[whitey45]

Take it to a competent shop who can perform a proper steering conversion , before you or anyone else gets hurt!!! My guess is you don’t have welding, cutting, grinding, fabbing skills to fix this properly. It’s a hacked po steering conversion with nothing original to replace.

 

[Downey]

You have a spud shaft between the lower universal joint and steering gear box. That spud shaft has internal female splines that slip over the male splines of the steering gear box input shaft. There should have been a clamp to tighten the male and female splines together, my guess is there is no clamp. There is a round hole in the frame directly where you can look inside the frame where that clamp should have been. If it was never clamped then the male and female splines ate each other up, and if that is the case when the lower universal joint spins it does not spin the steering gear box.

If you opt for a power steering conversion, I'm the boy who can provide the Downey Off Road Mfg. installation instruction sheet.

 

[Mark Jennings]

I used a TPI kit....it was a bit pricy but everything fit and was pretty good quality. The mounting bracket is cast steel and we welded structural tubing in the ‘pass through’ at the cross member. I actually think the bracket is a Dodge truck part....it’s a manufactured piece anyway. A good friend that is a welder/pipe fitter ‘burned it on’ for me.

 

[rowdyatx]

I used a TPI kit....it was a bit pricy but everything fit and was pretty good quality. The mounting bracket is cast steel and we welded structural tubing in the ‘pass through’ at the cross member. I actually think the bracket is a Dodge truck part....it’s a manufactured piece anyway. A good friend that is a welder/pipe fitter ‘burned it on’ for me.

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Thanks, Mark.
I’ve renovated a few airstreams but I don’t have experience with mechanics, other than general maintenance on various vehicles. but no welding. However, I’ve grinders trailer frames

This FJ has 49k original miles so I jumped on it. A Chevy 350 was installed (3spd) a while back. I assumed the sipping in the steering was going to be a simple adjustment. I feel lucky it broke before I was out of my driveway because I had driven it a couple hundred mikes to get it home last week!

What other things should prioritize or possible replace?

 

[rowdyatx]

You have a spud shaft between the lower universal joint and steering gear box. That spud shaft has internal female splines that slip over the male splines of the steering gear box input shaft. There should have been a clamp to tighten the male and female splines together, my guess is there is no clamp. There is a round hole in the frame directly where you can look inside the frame where that clamp should have been. If it was never clamped then the male and female splines ate each other up, and if that is the case when the lower universal joint spins it does not spin the steering gear box.

If you opt for a power steering conversion, I'm the boy who can provide the Downey Off Road Mfg. installation instruction sheet.

I’ve renovated a few airstreams but I don’t have experience with mechanics, other than general maintenance on various vehicles. but no welding. However, I’ve grinders trailer frames

This FJ has 49k original miles so I jumped on it. A Chevy 350 was installed (3spd) a while back. I assumed the sipping in the steering was going to be a simple adjustment. I feel lucky it broke before I was out of my driveway because I had driven it a couple hundred mikes to get it home last week!

What other things should prioritize or possible replace?

 

[Oregon FJ40]

I’ve renovated a few airstreams but I don’t have experience with mechanics, other than general maintenance on various vehicles. but no welding. However, I’ve grinders trailer frames

This FJ has 49k original miles so I jumped on it. A Chevy 350 was installed (3spd) a while back. I assumed the sipping in the steering was going to be a simple adjustment. I feel lucky it broke before I was out of my driveway because I had driven it a couple hundred mikes to get it home last week!

What other things should prioritize or possible replace?

I would suggest getting the drum brakes and cylinders checked/replaced. a couple of my brake cylinders locked up when I got my '66 prior to my disc conversion.

Also start a build thread, take/post lots of pictures. Will be the best way to document your build, along with addressing specific issues as you go

 

[brian]

This FJ has 49k original miles so I jumped on it.

how do mile even matter, when the original engine has been replaced??

 

[rowdyatx]

how do mile even matter, when the original engine has been replaced??

I guess they they don’t. I was just providing a little background on the vehicle...

 

[rowdyatx]

You have a spud shaft between the lower universal joint and steering gear box. That spud shaft has internal female splines that slip over the male splines of the steering gear box input shaft. There should have been a clamp to tighten the male and female splines together, my guess is there is no clamp. There is a round hole in the frame directly where you can look inside the frame where that clamp should have been. If it was never clamped then the male and female splines ate each other up, and if that is the case when the lower universal joint spins it does not spin the steering gear box.

If you opt for a power steering conversion, I'm the boy who can provide the Downey Off Road Mfg. installation instruction sheet.

Can you send me the installation sheet? Do you also provide the kit?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

how do mile even matter, when the original engine has been replaced??

^^ This. Arguably, miles don't matter at all on these trucks anyway. With a 5-digit odometer, they've all likely rolled over a couple times. Mine had "78,000 original miles" according to the ad, but it was already on its second V8 . Now it's on it's 3rd V8, and has 82,000 miles on it - so that means it has averaged about an engine every 20,000 miles if the mileage was accurate. The 283 I pulled was even rebuilt/bored out to the max - so who knows, maybe the 283 had been in there for 178,000 miles itself? Even if odometer hasn't rolled, age does just as much harm as mileage to a lot of parts, as do PO's who have no idea what they're doing - like the guy who put that steering box on your truck.

For comparison - my steering gear fix/replacement started on page 5 of my thread. For some reason it won't let me paste the link below - but page 1-8 pretty much covers what a mess it was an how it was fixed. A good before and after shot is on page 9.

I had a shop do mine, and if I was going to do it again, I'd do a few things differently (sleeve the front cross member, raise the box slightly for better shackle clearance) but at least with my current setup I don't need to worry about the box falling off while I'm driving.

Your manual steering box conversion looks as bad as my saginaw power steering conversion did when I bought it. Why people think welding a cast box to the frame is an acceptable installation befuddles me. You're asking for trouble with that setup and you'll want to get it fixed correctly. Ideally, you want a setup that bolts through your frame horn and is sleeved internally. You also want a pipe sleeving the hole through your front cross member, though, admittedly, mine doesn't have that.

1. If it's already V8 converted, you should already have the bolt holes and accessory mounts to install a power steering pump - you'll just need to find a pump, pulley, bracket, and a belt to run them.

2. You already have a hole in your frame - the power steering saginaw box will install in the same place. If installed properly, you can ditch the spud shaft all together and connect the steering rod right to the steering box with a U-joint. This puts WAY less flex/tension on the splined end that has been sheared and also saves the rear seal on the power steering version.

3. Not sure what your current steering shaft looks like, but if it's a solid column, it will come right through the steering wheel and into your face in a bad accident. You want a telescoping steering shaft that will collapse under the impact. Most people use DD cut-to-length borgeson shaft on these conversions.

Plenty of write ups on this forum on how to do it right. But what you have right now is dangerously wrong.

 

[rowdyatx]

^^ This. Arguably, miles don't matter at all on these trucks anyway. With a 5-digit odometer, they've all likely rolled over a couple times. Mine had "78,000 original miles" according to the ad, but it was already on its second V8 . Now it's on it's 3rd V8, and has 82,000 miles on it - so that means it has averaged about an engine every 20,000 miles if the mileage was accurate. The 283 I pulled was even rebuilt/bored out to the max - so who knows, maybe the 283 had been in there for 178,000 miles itself? Even if odometer hasn't rolled, age does just as much harm as mileage to a lot of parts, as do PO's who have no idea what they're doing - like the guy who put that steering box on your truck.

For comparison - my steering gear fix/replacement started on page 5 of my thread. For some reason it won't let me paste the link below - but page 1-8 pretty much covers what a mess it was an how it was fixed.


I had a shop do mine, and if I was going to do it again, I'd do a few things differently (sleeve the front cross member, raise the box slightly for better shackle clearance) but at least with my current setup I don't need to worry about the box falling off while I'm driving.

Your manual steering box conversion looks as bad as my saginaw power steering conversion did when I bought it. Why people think welding a cast box to the frame is an acceptable installation befuddles me. You're asking for trouble with that setup and you'll want to get it fixed correctly. Ideally, you want a setup that bolts through your frame horn and is sleeved internally. You also want a pipe sleeving the hole through your front cross member, though, admittedly, mine doesn't have that.

1. If it's already V8 converted, you should already have the bolt holes and accessory mounts to install a power steering pump - you'll just need to find a pump, pulley, bracket, and a belt to run them.

2. You already have a hole in your frame - the power steering saginaw box will install in the same place. If installed properly, you can ditch the spud shaft all together and connect the steering rod right to the steering box with a U-joint. This puts WAY less flex/tension on the splined end that has been sheared and also saves the rear seal on the power steering version.

3. Not sure what your current steering shaft looks like, but if it's a solid column, it will come right through the steering wheel and into your face in a bad accident. You want a telescoping steering shaft that will collapse under the impact. Most people use DD cut-to-length borgeson shaft on these conversions.

Plenty of write ups on this forum on how to do it right. But what you have right now is dangerously wrong.

Thank you for the explanation. I’m researching for a replacement as we speak; a safe one!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Thank you for the explanation. I’m researching for a replacement as we speak; a safe one!

Another thing - there seems to be a lot of favor for the non-sequential 4-turn boxes (I have one). There are two Saginaw power steering boxes that look identical, but one has a 3.5 turn sequential box (the wheels turn faster the farther you turn left or right) vs the 4.25 turn one. The 4-turn box is getting harder and harder to find but apparently it makes the steering on these short wheelbase trucks way less squirelly.