RTH: Motor ruined, need replacement! 1999

[Eicca]

Sudden oil loss killed my parents' 1999 motor today. Barfed oil all under the driver's side, lost all oil pressure and then quit running. They just had the oil changed, and the shop that did the work is offering to eat the cost of a new motor.

They're in Utah, and I'm in Idaho playing "operations control" here so I don't know exactly what the shop found. But I already found a complete motor at Classic Cruisers in CO, $4.5k, low mileage (not sure the exact number), complete with all accessories. Swap and go.

Any other sources I should contact? Reputable eBay sellers? Obviously want to try and keep the cost as low as possible so the shop doesn't flip-flop.

I would imagine just rebuilding or swapping the block is probably not the best option since oil starvation probably ate the valvetrain too.

All suggestions welcome. Except for "replace the car." It's otherwise in perfect running order, complete with rear locker.

Thanks in advance. My poor mom is distraught.

EDIT: New information and video have come through, not giving up on this car just yet. Thread title edited.

 

[krice118]

@cruiseroutfit is in Salt Lake - Kurt might know

Sorry to hear. Sucks that a crap oil change lead to needing a new motor.......glad the shop is stepping up. I would also be looking for diminished value and $ for her (your) time.

 

[Eicca]

@cruiseroutfit is in Salt Lake - Kurt might know

Sorry to hear. Sucks that a crap oil change lead to needing a new motor.......glad the shop is stepping up. I would also be looking for diminished value and $ for her (your) time.

Kurt referred me to Classic Cruisers.

A few more details showed up. It has a misfire on one cylinder. Is it unreasonable to think that is suspicious, since the whole motor was covered in oil, and it seems to sound otherwise ok? I’m suspecting a contaminated coil or plug. Granted, I only have an iPhone video but I don’t hear any ticking or knocking. I’m not giving up on it yet.

I’ll attach the video when I get home.

 

[ikarus]

Which shop did the oil change?

 

[Eicca]

Local indie. They've been real good to us.

Here's video. Tell me what you hear. I personally don't hear any valve ticking or harsh knocking. I can definitely hear a missing cylinder, does it sound bad enough to suspect a toasted engine?

Slamming it into the rev limiter probably wasn't helping anything, thanks mom...

 

[suprarx7nut]

Local indie. They've been real good to us.

Here's video. Tell me what you hear. I personally don't hear any valve ticking or harsh knocking. I can definitely hear a missing cylinder, does it sound bad enough to suspect a toasted engine?

Slamming it into the rev limiter probably wasn't helping anything, thanks mom...

LMAO. Oh my god stop! Bouncing off the rev limiter like a drifter, lol. Wowsa.

I definitely do not hear the knocking of a dead engine. An engine with fatal rod knock, in my experience, sounds like a symphony of hammers swung by the hulk against an iron wall. The subtle sounds in that video sound much, much less serious. If you did have a blown engine with rod knock that video would have ended with an exciting BOOM and a rod flying out of the block.

If there was any minor bearing problem, though, that little rev limiter escapade probably exacerbated it to a much quicker death.

I think we need more info. Oil loss and an engine shutdown can mean lots of things. Since it is able to run semi-smoothly and run straight up to the rev-limiter OK, I'm not sold on the idea of a dead motor.

 

[Eicca]

LMAO. Oh my god stop! Bouncing off the rev limiter like a drifter, lol. Wowsa.

I definitely do not hear the knocking of a dead engine. An engine with fatal rod knock, in my experience, sounds like a symphony of hammers swung by the hulk against an iron wall. The subtle sounds in that video sound much, much less serious. If you did have a blown engine with rod knock that video would have ended with an exciting BOOM and a rod flying out of the block.

If there was any minor bearing problem, though, that little rev limiter escapade probably exacerbated it to a much quicker death.

I think we need more info. Oil loss and an engine shutdown can mean lots of things. Since it is able to run semi-smoothly and run straight up to the rev-limiter OK, I'm not sold on the idea of a dead motor.

Right? It seems to me that a low compression misfire would be inconsistent if the damage wasn't horrible, or if it was so low of compression as to never fire (like it's currently doing), the rest of the motor would be making all kinds of racket. I have a hard time imagining all the damage being isolated to that one cylinder.

From what I gathered there was oil EVERYWHERE. It seems apparent that it came from a pressurized source. Who knows how much electrical it got into? My mom says when she dumped oil in and restarted it, it fired right up, ran a little rough, but otherwise no issue (other than the spraying oil).

She says she heard something, but turned the radio off and couldn't tell. That doesn't sound like a starved motor to me. You can hear a starved motor rattling from a block away.

I'm telling the shop, we're not writing this off without a compression test on that cylinder.

 

[ikarus]

Yeah doesn't sound terrible. She should take it to Dustin at State Automotive to check it out. They're a cruiser specialty shop in Midvale, and they do great work. If she does need an engine swap, State's the only place I'd take it.

State Automotive - Comprehensive Auto Care in Midvale, UT

Choose State Automotive in Midvale, UT for reliable, full-service auto repairs and maintenance. Ensure your vehicle's peak performance—visit us today!

www.stateautomotiveutah.com

 

[saucebox]

Yeah doesn't sound terrible. She should take it to Dustin at State Automotive to check it out. They're a cruiser specialty shop in Midvale, and they do great work. If she does need an engine swap, State's the only place I'd take it.

State Automotive - Comprehensive Auto Care in Midvale, UT

Choose State Automotive in Midvale, UT for reliable, full-service auto repairs and maintenance. Ensure your vehicle's peak performance—visit us today!

www.stateautomotiveutah.com

100% agree, Dustin & crew are amazing.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

If it wasn't toast before it will be the way she treats it. Nothing like fearing an engine's got problems and pegging the rpms.
Did she check how much was lost, from where, and how much she put back in? Sounds like she shouldn't be trying to diagnose this.

 

[Eicca]

If it wasn't toast before it will be the way she treats it. Nothing like fearing an engine's got problems and pegging the rpms.
Did she check how much was lost, from where, and how much she put back in? Sounds like she shouldn't be trying to diagnose this.

She’s actually really good to it. Always on the lookout for funny noises (to a fault sometimes), always on top of maintenance and never drives it hard. I asked for the video, and apparently “don’t hit the rev limiter” was never brought up because it’s never been a thing.

Can’t say for sure how much was lost but the shop cleaned it, fixed the leak, refilled it and sent it home with us while we figure out what to do. We only live a few blocks from the shop.

At any rate, I’ve seen videos of UZ motors taking an unbelievable thrashing and not giving up. I feel optimistic.

Again, I’m doing this all remotely so she’s going to have the mechanic call me and we’ll talk diagnosis and engine replacement if needed.

 

[Eicca]

Update: spoke to the mechanic today. He says the big bolt that secures the oil filter housing worked loose and that’s where the spray came from. He says the ECU shut the car down on its own when it detected the loss of pressure. Is that a thing??

He also says the car is missing on cylinders 3 and 7 once it warms up and there’s a definite knock, which I still don’t hear. My Lexus engine sounds tickier and I know it was neglected.

They’re still willing to replace the engine but they seem fairly adamant about sourcing their own.

They also agreed to compression test it Monday morning but I won’t be there to actually see the results. I’d like to get a second opinion at this point.

I’ll contact Dustin at State Automotive when they open Monday and get his input.

 

[2001LC]

I've heard of number of different vehicle being fine, after this type of oil loss. It all depends on how low and long driven. Spraying all over DS of engine, indicates oil filter seal likely pinched near top or filter just not sung down. So oil was running through engine at least until pan emptied if it did. If she's that aware, she'd smelt it and saw smoke then stopped. Pan may never have empty.

First, drain pan see what remains, less what was added. This gives clue if actually run without oil.
Second, test would be oil pressure test. If below limited, I'd stop there and replace engine.

 

[Eicca]

I’m just driving to Utah tonight to look at it myself.

 

[Keowee]

It's possible that the seal from the old oil filter was stuck on the base where it snugs up.

Happens when the seal is not lubed before install. The new filter was screwed on over the old seal. It then blows out when pressure builds up.

Sounds like the shop is in CYA mode.

 

[flintknapper]

It's possible that the seal from the old oil filter was stuck on the base where it snugs up.

Happens when the seal is not lubed before install. The new filter was screwed on over the old seal. It then blows out when pressure builds up.

Sounds like the shop is in CYA mode.

^^^^^

Yes, much more common (and plausible). Never heard of the threaded adapter becoming loose on any engine.

The old seal thing.... I've had happen before and it does produce a geyser of oil.

 

[Eicca]

It sounds like it wasn’t on tight enough. The oil change happened a week before the “explosion.”

 

[Eicca]

Well I tested everything. It’s toast. Where’s the best place to get a replacement? Any tips for picking a junkyard motor?

 

[97 AZ LC]

Well I tested everything. It’s toast.

Why is it toast? Tell us more.

 

[Eicca]

Why is it toast? Tell us more.

I started a second thread for diagnostic purposes, but I'll put the log here too. My initial observations were:
-No abnormal noises, it was running rough but not terrible. Misfire was present immediately on cold start, in open loop
-Techstream/CEL showed misfires on cylinders 1, 3, 5 and 7 (driver's side, bank 1), no trouble whatsoever in bank 2
-Oil had definitely gotten everywhere and the shop cleaned the majority of it up

I found it odd that exactly one half of the engine could have gotten damaged. Before writing it off, I wanted to confirm:
-Alignment of timing belt. An oily and slipped belt would certainly cause misfires on bank 1 and throw off compression test readings
-Possibility of electrical contamination in fuel injectors or coil packs
-Compare compression between cylinder banks

So I did all of that. Pulled the timing covers first, timing was spot on. Removed all spark plugs second and checked compression. Bank 2 all showed right around 150psi. Bank 1 was a different story. Cylinder 1 topped at 90psi, cylinder 5 at 130, cylinder 3 was the least worst 145 and I didn't even bother checking 7 at that point because the brake booster was in the way and I figured it was already a lost cause.

When I reassembled it I swapped coil packs side-to-side just to see if that would change anything.

Once I started it again, the misfires were still present, bank 2 was still functioning normally, and the engine actually performed and sounded worse. A knock became audible in cylinder 1.

At the very least, I got rid of all the "what ifs." I couldn't stand the thought of pulling the plug when it could've just been a slipped timing belt. Now I have closure.

Next step is to source an engine. The shop says they have a "supplier" but it doesn't exactly sound like quality. I would prefer we got a healthy Japan-built salvage yard unit over some questionably-rebuilt mechanic's special.