RMS Saga - Did I Get Taken on a Transmission Drop?

[nashqadri]

Noticed the rear main seal on my 97 LX450 is leaking. Took it to a shop in Anaheim CA called Lawrence Auto Repair. The mechanic said it’s leaking from multiple spots including the rear main. I asked what else he saw and he mentioned power steering and maybe a few other places but it’s hard to say. I told him to go ahead and replace the rear main seal anyway. Total estimated cost $850. Three days later he said it was done. Paid him and picked it up drove home and it’s still leaking in the same spot between the bellhousing and the block. Took it back and he claimed the leak I’m seeing is power steering fluid being blown back while driving. I didn’t buy that but I replaced the power steering hose myself and that leak is now gone. Brought it back again and now he says it’s the upper and lower oil pans leaking not the rear main. I’m starting to think he never touched the rear main at all. Anyone local dealt with this shop and what’s the best way to confirm whether the rear main was actually replaced or not?

 

[Comet]

Clean everything off. Start it and look for leaks. The wind will blow fluid everywhere and anywhere. Assume the mechanic is being honest even though he probably left out numerous bolts and the ones he put back in are clearly not metric. Wait, that’s my current experience. Clean it and look for leaks. Still assume the mechanic is being honest.

 

[thatcabledude]

If it was the power steering it’s should’ve have had a reddish hue.

 

[COS80]

If it was the power steering it’s should’ve have had a reddish hue.

 

[Kernal]

The rear arch of the upper oil pan is a very common leak source, much more common than the rear main. the problem is that both leaks show up at the same
location as they're less than inch from each other, rear main seal is directly above the rear arch area that's sealed with FIPG. They can be diagnosed using a mechanics mirror or fiber-optic camera . The mechanic likely just assumed the leak was the from the rear main and never touched the upper pan. Even then, $850 to drop a transmission and replace a rear main seems low.

Read through this thread, the link takes you to a photo showing the rear main seal in relation to the rear arch of the upper oil pan:

Post in thread 'Upper oil pan arch seal renew'

Mar 11, 2016

Just had a yota mechanic look at it and he said it's NOT the RMS ,,, but it's so wet under there that he can't tell ... so I'll degrease and pressure wash it underneath to have it clean for him for next week... he thinks it's the oil pan

while you're at it, do this too, open up the plastic inspection cover on the transmission bell housing, then use a telescopic mirror and take a peak inside. You can clearly tell where the leak is coming from but you'll need to concentrate. The RMS is about 5/16"" above the rear arch pan seal so try to figure out the source of the leak. Wipe the...

• alia176

• 

 

[nashqadri]

The rear arch of the upper oil pan is a very common leak source, much more common than the rear main. the problem is that both leaks show up at the same
location as they're less than inch from each other, one abobe the other but can be diagnosed using a mechanics mirror or fiber-optic camera . The mechanic likely just assumed the leak was the from the rear main and never touched the upper pan. Even then, $850 to drop a transmission and replace a rear main seems low.

Read through this thread, the link takes you to a photo showing the rear main seal in relation to the rear arch of the upper oil pan:

Post in thread 'Upper oil pan arch seal renew'

Mar 11, 2016

Just had a yota mechanic look at it and he said it's NOT the RMS ,,, but it's so wet under there that he can't tell ... so I'll degrease and pressure wash it underneath to have it clean for him for next week... he thinks it's the oil pan

while you're at it, do this too, open up the plastic inspection cover on the transmission bell housing, then use a telescopic mirror and take a peak inside. You can clearly tell where the leak is coming from but you'll need to concentrate. The RMS is about 5/16"" above the rear arch pan seal so try to figure out the source of the leak. Wipe the...

• alia176

• 

Thanks Kernal! makes sense. Headed to the mechanic now.

 

[Kernal]

If you have your pans resealed, while the pans are down, have them also replace the O-ring for the oil level sensor (use a Toyota part for this).

More importantly if you can, find a mechanic with knowledge and experience working with the 80 Series; he would have/should have known to inspect
the upper pan rear arch for leaks.

Key when resealing the pans IME, all surfaces need to be super squeaky clean, zero oil remaining on the mating surfaces, cleaned well with Acetone. Using an oily rag and handling dirty/grimy parts with grimy fingers can lead to a leak instead of remaining dry for the next 20+years so best IMHO is to also have the pans washed well (don't use anything harmful to aluminum) before cleaning the mating surfaces. In jobs like that having a bit of OCD is a good thing.

FWIW

 

[nashqadri]

Here is a video of what the mechanic showed me.



So almost a year back I had the upper oil pan seal done. Why it would crap out already. What’s throwing me off is there’s oil inside the bellhousing, I can feel it when I reach in, even though the leak looks like it’s from that upper pan seam up top. The rig hasn’t been driven in months, just sitting, but it still keeps dripping steady. Mechanic says the upper pan can’t be pulled from underneath, claims the whole motor has to come out to get to it. Anyone here actually done it and can confirm that? And any idea how oil’s ending up inside the bellhousing if the leak’s from outside the pan.

 

[aztoytec]

Find another shop. Someone that knows these vehicles. Horrible explanation.

 

[smorkington]

If it was the power steering it’s should’ve have had a reddish hue.

The power steering fluid is atf on these... So yes it should have a reddish hue

 

[nashqadri]

@Kernal what are your thoughts?

 

[Kernal]

Did the mechanic take any photos of pulling the transmission or the rear of the engine while the transmission was out?

Was the original leak the same as what we're looking at in your video?




To check the rear main seal and the rear arch of the upper pan with the transmission in place you have to put a mirror or camera into the rectangular inspection port of the bell housing and look up and forward (not straight in and rearward as shown in your video).

Hard to say from the drips where they started from. I would wash it off, dump in an oil based leak detector dye (for engine oil) then start looking for where they shows up first. It may only take a few minutes so don't go for a drive which would blow it all over, just do it your driveway (or ask a better mechanic to do it). You'll need a bright UV light source and the colored "sun" glasses might help.

LeakFinder Oil-Based Dye

LeakFinder oil-based fluid dye (LF2001/LF2008), addressing systems containing oil, fuel, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, and more.

tracerproducts.com

 

[nashqadri]

Did the mechanic take any photos of pulling the transmission or the rear of the engine while the transmission was out?

Was the original leak the same as what we're looking at in your video?




To check the rear main seal and the rear arch of the upper pan with the transmission in place you have to put a mirror or camera into the rectangular inspection port of the bell housing and look up and forward (not straight in and rearward as shown in your video).

Hard to say from the drips where they started from. I would wash it off, dump in an oil based leak detector dye (for engine oil) then start looking for where they shows up first. It may only take a few minutes so don't go for a drive which would blow it all over, just do it your driveway (or ask a better mechanic to do it). You'll need a bright UV light source and the colored "sun" glasses might help.

LeakFinder Oil-Based Dye

LeakFinder oil-based fluid dye (LF2001/LF2008), addressing systems containing oil, fuel, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, and more.

tracerproducts.com

He did not take any photos while he was working on it...
The original leak was at the same spot but not as bad as it is now.

Will wash and get a hold of a camera.

 

[Fj80oregon]

Take you truck to a trusted Land Cruiser mechanic, you can pull the upper pan in the truck takes about a day of labor to take out and install. Two man job on the install as to not smear the FIPG. My wife has helped me do a couple.

 

[aztoytec]

Was $850 the total bill? What are there hourly rates? I don’t know what book time is but appears really low. I can check tomorrow if you’re interested.

 

[nashqadri]

Was $850 the total bill? What are there hourly rates? I don’t know what book time is but appears really low. I can check tomorrow if you’re interested.

Yeah, that rate’s crazy low. Most shops I checked were quoting anywhere from $1,200 to $2,300. This guy’s got a 4.9-star rating with around 450 reviews, so on paper he looked like the right guy for the job. Maybe he keeps the price down just to stay busy since he’s surrounded by other mechanics.

 

[Kernal]

Was the inspection cover (plastic plate) missing while you were driving around? If you watch the video of the mechanic he sticks his hand into the inspection port apparently to show that it's dry but his fingers come out with oil on them. So either it's old oil from the supposed rear crank seal or a new leak and that's less likely to get inside the bell housing from the lower pan IF the inspection plate was installed.

Only thing to do at this point is to clean off the inside of the bell housing (use a rubber safe cleaner or just some paper towels (do not spray Carb/brake/throttle body cleaner up into the bell housing, those could possibly damage seals) also clean lower half and bottom of the engine, dump in some dye, then take a lot of photos along with searching using a UV light.

 

[nashqadri]

Was the inspection cover (plastic plate) missing while you were driving around? If you watch the video of the mechanic he sticks his hand into the inspection port apparently to show that it's dry but his fingers come out with oil on them. So either it's old oil from the supposed rear crank seal or a new leak and that's less likely to get inside the bell housing from the lower pan IF the inspection plate was installed.

Only thing to do at this point is to clean off the inside of the bell housing (use a rubber safe cleaner or just some paper towels (do not spray Carb/brake/throttle body cleaner up into the bell housing, those could possibly damage seals) also clean lower half and bottom of the engine, dump in some dye, then take a lot of photos along with searching using a UV light.

Pulled the inspection cover right before the walkthrough. I’m the one who reached into the bellhousing could feel the oil in there myself. Brought the rig home, cleaned out as much of the oil as I could from the inside and whatever I could reach outside. Just got an inspection camera from Amazon, so I’ll be taking a look inside soon to see what’s really going on

 

[lumbee1]

I had a similar situation. Engine rebuilt in 2021 with a new rear main. Oil leak at the bell housing started a year later. I could not tell where the oil was coming from, but doing the lower and upper oil pans seemed easier than the rear main. Most of my reading and suspicions pointed to upper oil pan as well. The FIPG didn't look great on the upper oil pan and we proceeded to clean it all of, inspect, reapply, and reinstall the upper oil pan.

I thought the leak was fixed but it returned a month later. By this time I has secured a mechanics inspection mirror and confirmed the rear main was leaking. I could see a stream of oil coming off the bottom of the rear main.

Replacing the rear main was something I just didn't want to do. Around this time, I switched from Mobil1 10W30 to Rotella T6 and the rear main leak stopped. It's been more than a year with several oil changes and still nothing on the ground.

Clean upper

New FIPG

 

[lumbee1]

BTW, I used clean paper towels to somewhat determine where my leak was located.
I had a small leak by the crank position sensor and one near the back of the block. I would press the paper towel against the edge of the upper oil and block and check for marks. It it was clean, I continued around the perimeter making note of wet locations.

To @nashqadri clean all the oil out of the area around the inspection port. If the rear main is leaking, there will be a stream of oil underneath the rear main. If the oil pan is leaking, it could be from a few different spots between the block and upper oil pan.