Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts?

[gluaisrothai]

With more range comes more charging time. I think the new silverado is like 200kwh. I think that would take like 24 hours to charge at home. Also range is cut significantly when towing. What I think would be a better option is to have better public transportation in cities so people don't need cars at all.

I just looked at the specs on the 2024 Silverado. That is a beast. I like the onboard 10kW inverter to power your house in a blackout.

Something to think about- before owning an EV, most folks think about fueling as a gas tank paradigm- fill when empty or nearly empty. The reality with an EV is that it's more like how you charge your cellphone. You plug it in whenever it's handy, and often at night. So unless you're doing a road trip you're unlikely to have to fill from completely empty; and on a road trip you'll probably use rapid DC charging similar to Tesla's model.

 

[Itsky]

...

Something to think about- before owning an EV, most folks think about fueling as a gas tank paradigm- fill when empty or nearly empty. The reality with an EV is that it's more like how you charge your cellphone. You plug it in whenever it's handy, and often at night. So unless you're doing a road trip you're unlikely to have to fill from completely empty; and on a road trip you'll probably use rapid DC charging similar to Tesla's model.

I never charge my cell phone like that. I charge it at night, and that's it. If it can't last the whole day it's dead till bed time. I will never tend to an appliance like that.

 

[coleAK]

Don’t doubt it and don’t get me wrong not discrediting Tesla. But, at the end of the day you are losing range. If you guys are telling me now in 2022 ten years is achievable I’m very happy to hear that and I’m still an advocate for EV in most use cases. I just don’t like the idea of losing range over time but at some point replacing a battery is still more cost effective than guzzling gas. My side point was that this is still horrible for the environment and has a lot of ethical issues as well as gas. The balance has never favored EV more than now.

I’d love for people to actually test the real world range estimate on their cars though. The other thing is weather will absolutely speed up the degradation, as well as charge cycles, driving habits etc. And of course in extremes there is range impact. I know Tesla on their own closed course can make the numbers seem a bit too good to be true probably but yes absolutely an electric motor is not going to have nearly as much wear as an ICE and practically no maintenance. We are a maybe couple steps from really having solid battery offerings. I know recently some researchers found a way to reverse lithium degradation by voltage spiking during charge. This reverses some type of anode creep or something that is responsible for killing wafers. I’ll find it if anyone is interested but I’m sure you can google for it.

I’m ready to buy still and y’all’s anecdotes are helping. You’ve already answered my original premise as we have gainfully surpassed 5 year longevity, and even 10 apparently. Those are some hell of batteries to be used daily like that and not succumb.

Sold our 2014 Model s to a buddy. He drives it ~100 miles a day round trip. He charged at my house last night (since we don’t have public charging in Anchorage) as he lives 50 miles away. He says he can get 175 miles easy (and will get home with 5-10%) out of a 90% charge. He is at 96k miles and I took delivery 7 years and 9 months ago. It is a “base” model, Rated range new was 208 miles, it is fairly close to that.

In our 2018 LR 3 back late September I drove a 295 round trip after charging to 100%. I got home With 5%, which is pretty much exactly the 307 mile “original rated range”.

I’m in Alaska so drive in fairly severe conditions but rarely to never high temps.

 

[TeCKis300]

With more range comes more charging time. I think the new silverado is like 200kwh. I think that would take like 24 hours to charge at home. Also range is cut significantly when towing. What I think would be a better option is to have better public transportation in cities so people don't need cars at all.

Sorta. It's not so much the size of the battery but use of it. On the charging side, there's multiple L3 technologies and strategies that actually allow bigger batteries to bulk charge faster.

I do tow regularly so I'm closely watching that play out as it has more dependency on infrastructure. It may be one of the major reason I keep the 200-series. Interestingly, my LX570 with 12.5 aux tank goes 500 miles unladen, and 270 towing. That'll be about the same distance the stock CT delivers in both use cases so I have a good feel for how that range may play out in our typical travels. I'll point out my stock ICE vehicle needed to be modified before matching the anticipated stock range of an EV. An EV advantage is that It may be nice to always leave campgrounds fully charged. But then trip charging infrastructure will be a big differentiator.

To @gluaisrothai 's point, the paradigm of charging an EV is so much more convenient day to day than any ICE. I know we're focused on trips here, but I'll take that minor inconvenience on road trips in the near term years, for daily convenience. Charging in place rather than regularly taking side trips to gas up.

 

[gluaisrothai]

I never charge my cell phone like that. I charge it at night, and that's it. If it can't last the whole day it's dead till bed time. I will never tend to an appliance like that.

The point it you don't wait until it's empty to plug it in. You plug it in when it's convenient for you, like at night.

--> "I'll never tend to an appliance like that". So you only put gas in your vehicle when it suits you, not when it needs it? Not sure I understand the attitude there.

Best,
Ken

 

[El Skywalker]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/04/imagine-virginias-icy-traffic-catastrophe-with-only-electric-vehicles/

I think the same point could be made in regards to sitting in that same accident with less than a full tank of gas.

Side note:
EV were supposed to be a sure thing come the new millennium...
At least that is what they told me in grade school years back!

 

[stonepa]

I never charge my cell phone like that. I charge it at night, and that's it. If it can't last the whole day it's dead till bed time. I will never tend to an appliance like that.

I think you are a rarity

 

[Tex68w]

One thing I don't hear a lot about is the cost to charge these vehicles. For those of you who own a EV, what does it cost to charge one fully at a public charge station? What do you think it costs you to charge overnight at home? And it's reasonable to believe that with increased demand will come increases in costs to charge as well. I'd like to see how that compares to an ICE vehicle with a similar range with fuel say at $3/gal.

 

[Heckraiser]

Switching to EV added about $40 to my monthly utility bill. With my prior ICE vehicle (comparable midsize sedan), it was $200+ per month to fill the gas tank with 91 octane. If you have "time of use" pricing with your utility service provider, you can save a lot of money by charging when electricity is in lower demand. If you have panels on the roof, there is pretty much no cost most of the year.

I don't really use the superchargers, I've plugged in only when I spaced out and forgot to charge at home, but I think it was something like $12 to load up the battery to get me through the day. For older tesla owners (or owners of more expensive models), it's free.

 

[Itsky]

The point it you don't wait until it's empty to plug it in. You plug it in when it's convenient for you, like at night.

--> "I'll never tend to an appliance like that". So you only put gas in your vehicle when it suits you, not when it needs it? Not sure I understand the attitude there.

Best,
Ken

Phone gets tended to 1x per day
LC gets gas 1x per 280-320 miles (usually 1.25 weeks, takes 5-10 mins)

It's sounding like I'd need to plug in multiple times per day and that this is more convenient.

 

[TeCKis300]

Phone gets tended to 1x per day
LC gets gas 1x per 280-320 miles (usually 1.25 weeks, takes 5-10 mins)

It's sounding like I'd need to plug in multiple times per day and that this is more convenient.

That's not quite the right analogy.

It's the EV that works much more like your phone 95% of the time. As you said, you just plug in at night. Exactly what people do with EVs in their garage. It's a rarity these days to have to plug in through the day unless using it hard, perhaps the 5% days on travel.

Imagine not having a phone charger at home at all. And running around day to day, and if your phone inconveniently happens to be low, will need to visit one of the many ubiquitous public phone charges. That is the reality of a gas car today! Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Because it is. It's one of the very compelling reasons why many EV owners won't go back to ICE unless there's absolutely a need.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Phone gets tended to 1x per day
LC gets gas 1x per 280-320 miles (usually 1.25 weeks, takes 5-10 mins)

It's sounding like I'd need to plug in multiple times per day and that this is more convenient.

If you're running an LC tankful every 10 days, then for todays typical LR EV you could plug in once every week to ten days. But you could also plug in every night and you'd wake up with a full tank every morning, if that was your preference. I used to do the latter in the early days of EV driving (range anxiety), now I'm a little more relaxed about it.

 

[bloc]

But saying “Faux news” is constructive? Hmmm

I actually didn’t catch that, mostly because there were actual points made elsewhere in their post.

I’m just saying if we want this conversation to continue posts like yours won’t help that happen.

 

[AnyMal]

One thing I don't hear a lot about is the cost to charge these vehicles. For those of you who own a EV, what does it cost to charge one fully at a public charge station? What do you think it costs you to charge overnight at home? And it's reasonable to believe that with increased demand will come increases in costs to charge as well. I'd like to see how that compares to an ICE vehicle with a similar range with fuel say at $3/gal.

That was kinda my whole point Tex, its pennies on the dollar if you consider maintenance and all involved with ICE and not having to swap a battery down the road in any relative ICE lifespans timeframe. The real question becomes what happens when the market dynamics shift and 80% of vehicles are charging. And the datacenters to run the backend of the AI network. And we continue to pull back on natural gas as NYC just banned for new builds. And its 120 degrees outside in the new normal. And im spending all day in metaverse because of a new bug.

The grid is absolutely nowhere near handling any of this. When it does, we will all be paying for that.
Human life takes energy, We aren't cheating reality of that fact no matter where we source it. Unless maybe nuclear.

Like everything else organic market opportunities (and i disagree with finance mentality here) its all about timing.
I think the golden age of EV cost benefits were the last 5 years where:
1) elec is still cheap
2) grid is not taxed
3) gov incentives flowing
4) EVs got better and actually practical

This should last another 5 years but its going to be uphill. s*** im talking to TEX here from Texas... I dont need to preach about the grid here or even California. Not to mention they are all completely vulnerable to cyber threats and extremely insecure. And we are now even more lax on foreign sourced infrastructure components thanks to Biden reversing the Trump EO. I dont know if you recall from the freeze but these components aren't off the shelf, and we are looking further and further to our overseas suppliers to even produce them. I have a lifelong friend whos father runs a giant supplier support company for all the giant distributors like CenterPoint etc. s*** is usually hanging by a thread as it is even before freezes, hurricanes, etc.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Imagine not having a phone charger at home at all. And running around day to day, and if your phone inconveniently happens to be low, will need to visit one of the many ubiquitous public phone charges. That is the reality of a gas car today! Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Because it is. It's one of the very compelling reasons why many EV owners won't go back to ICE unless there's absolutely a need.

The only reason there are home chargers for EVs is because you cannot charge an EV in 5 minutes at a gas station. If that were possible, I doubt many would bother installing chargers at all.

Nothing ridiculous about spending 5 mins to fill up at one of the hundreds of easily accessible locations we all have around us. What would be ridiculous is having to install a gas station in each home and "refill" every night, and then change that gas station to a new one each time you switch vehicle brands.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to how you use your vehicle. If the built-in range is enough and you're okay recharging every night at home, EV may be a good option. But if you don't have the option to recharge at home (how many millions of people live in apartment buildings and don't have chargers?) or need to recharge several times per day, I doubt the good old fashioned ICE vehicle will be getting replaced any time soon.

 

[stonepa]

One thing I don't hear a lot about is the cost to charge these vehicles. For those of you who own a EV, what does it cost to charge one fully at a public charge station? What do you think it costs you to charge overnight at home? And it's reasonable to believe that with increased demand will come increases in costs to charge as well. I'd like to see how that compares to an ICE vehicle with a similar range with fuel say at $3/gal.

One thing I don't hear a lot about is the cost to charge these vehicles. For those of you who own a EV, what does it cost to charge one fully at a public charge station? What do you think it costs you to charge overnight at home? And it's reasonable to believe that with increased demand will come increases in costs to charge as well. I'd like to see how that compares to an ICE vehicle with a similar range with fuel say at $3/gal.

Where is this $3 gas you speak of?

 

[TeCKis300]

The only reason there are home chargers for EVs is because you cannot charge an EV in 5 minutes at a gas station. If that were possible, I doubt many would bother installing chargers at all.

Nothing ridiculous about spending 5 mins to fill up at one of the hundreds of easily accessible locations we all have around us. What would be ridiculous is having to install a gas station in each home and "refill" every night, and then change that gas station to a new one each time you switch vehicle brands.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to how you use your vehicle. If the built-in range is enough and you're okay recharging every night at home, EV may be a good option. But if you don't have the option to recharge at home (how many millions of people live in apartment buildings and don't have chargers?) or need to recharge several times per day, I doubt the good old fashioned ICE vehicle will be getting replaced any time soon.

It's a different paradigm. There's pros and cons to each. This has been a good discussion and I don't think any of us from our individual perspectives are dismissing anything. More differences in reality when experienced versus imagined. BTW, I have charged an EV for 5 minutes. Modern Tesla V3 superchargers today can charge 75 miles in 5 minutes, or 200 miles in 15 minutes. That's only going to get better.

As much as I love EVs, I'm not ready to give up gas cars. You might not believe me but I love my dinosaur burners to death. The LX, but especially my Porsche 911 Turbo manual 6-speed. I wouldn't have said this 5 years ago, but I've since experienced what real EV speed looks and feels like and damn if it isn't exciting. Half makes me ask why I bother to hold onto heritage. Transmissions, what for? But just because technology can do things better doesn't mean I necessarily want "better"...for the moment.

I'll just enjoy both sides and pick the best tool for my mood. As with many things, diversification might be a good strategy anyways.

 

[Tex68w]

That was kinda my whole point Tex, its pennies on the dollar if you consider maintenance and all involved with ICE and not having to swap a battery down the road in any relative ICE lifespans timeframe. The real question becomes what happens when the market dynamics shift and 80% of vehicles are charging. And the datacenters to run the backend of the AI network. And we continue to pull back on natural gas as NYC just banned for new builds. And its 120 degrees outside in the new normal. And im spending all day in metaverse because of a new bug.

The grid is absolutely nowhere near handling any of this. When it does, we will all be paying for that.
Human life takes energy, We aren't cheating reality of that fact no matter where we source it. Unless maybe nuclear.

Like everything else organic market opportunities (and i disagree with finance mentality here) its all about timing.
I think the golden age of EV cost benefits were the last 5 years where:
1) elec is still cheap
2) grid is not taxed
3) gov incentives flowing
4) EVs got better and actually practical

This should last another 5 years but its going to be uphill. s*** im talking to TEX here from Texas... I dont need to preach about the grid here or even California. Not to mention they are all completely vulnerable to cyber threats and extremely insecure. And we are now even more lax on foreign sourced infrastructure components thanks to Biden reversing the Trump EO. I dont know if you recall from the freeze but these components aren't off the shelf, and we are looking further and further to our overseas suppliers to even produce them. I have a lifelong friend whos father runs a giant supplier support company for all the giant distributors like CenterPoint etc. s*** is usually hanging by a thread as it is even before freezes, hurricanes, etc.

I get it, we aren't far behind California in terms of the grid at this point and that's in some way due to the direct result of fleeing Californians lol, oh the irony. We live down here in this crap town because of employment at the nuclear plant and I worked for many years in the petroleum industry both domestically and abroad so I have a pretty clear understanding of the power grid.

 

[Tex68w]

Where is this $3 gas you speak of?

Regular Unleaded is $2.73/gal here locally today.

 

[stonepa]

Regular Unleaded is $2.73/gal here locally today.

Nice. $5.04/ gal last night in Orange County.