Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[mcgaskins]

can you please answer this comment and question that I posted earlier? If they “objectively better” than the answer should be simple.

Last spring, I took my family to Sedona, it was a quick 5 or 6 day trip.

Here where the first two days:
day 1: woke up at around 3:30am, drove from El Dorado Hills, CA to Sedona (900 miles), we filled up in town and grabbed sushi. We then drove up Scnebly hill road with the pink Jeep’s and camped on the ledge of the cliff
day2: we drove down that trail, and the spent the day riding trails in the LC and the bikes.
it was glorious.
last day: same thing in reverse.

what ev can do the above? How much charging time?

Instead of asking how many EVs can drive over 900 miles and then go to dinner, then go wheeling, then go camping in a single day, I would ask how many humans can do that? At an average driving speed of 70mph, that's 13 hours of driving time alone, and I know that would require at last 3 gas stops in my 200 as well as 3-4 bio breaks for my passengers and dogs which means a 15+ hour day minimum. My question is realistically how many people do that ever in their lifetime, let alone do it consistently? I drove our Sprinter from New Hampshire to Denver in 2 days a few years go, stopping only for diesel and to sleep, and while I truly loved it, there is zero chance it would have been possible with my wife or dogs or passengers for that matter. I'll make a trip like that 1-5x in my entire life, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for me to buy a vehicle based off whether that one trip is possible in 2 days or less.

 

[gluaisrothai]

It's cool that you can go from NorCal to Moab in a tesla, I am not arguing that you can't.

My point is that I own a LC to get off the beaten path and currently the EV infrastructure is the beaten path.

The airplane thing is just a silly comparison, yeah - you can take a cool trip in airplane. But that doesn't really overlap with what is possible in a LC. As I described, we usually camp in 5-10 different spots on a trip with all kinds of adventure gear. Lots is exploring, and rarely do we find the journey a boring waste of time.

The boring waste of time was in reference to the poster above who wrote of driving 900 miles in one day from point to point. Tell me that’s not a use case for an airplane vs any car? Grinding along for hours with only gas stops to break the monotony. I’d rather arrive nine hours ahead, rent a Jeep from Hertz and spend the day exploring.

And the CA-Moab route was in response to the same poster who asked for ev infrastructure support along that route.

I guess my wider point is that if you only know how to use a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. I’ve owned a Model S continuously since 2013 and have seen the exponential growth in the capability of the platform as charging infrastructure has expanded. Are there still limitations? Yup. Do I use it on every trip? Nope….often the 80 mile range Fiat is the best tool for city driving. But knowledge and fuel planning (pretty important in the air as well) help to make optimal use of the EV.

 

[Itsky]

Instead of asking how many EVs can drive over 900 miles and then go to dinner, then go wheeling, then go camping in a single day, I would ask how many humans can do that? At an average driving speed of 70mph, that's 13 hours of driving time alone, and I know that would require at last 3 gas stops in my 200 as well as 3-4 bio breaks for my passengers and dogs which means a 15+ hour day minimum. My question is realistically how many people do that ever in their lifetime, let alone do it consistently? I drove our Sprinter from New Hampshire to Denver in 2 days a few years go, stopping only for diesel and to sleep, and while I truly loved it, there is zero chance it would have been possible with my wife or dogs or passengers for that matter. I'll make a trip like that 1-5x in my entire life, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for me to buy a vehicle based off whether that one trip is possible in 2 days or less.

Yeah, it was a long day. We did it in 2019 and 2020 and my 7 and 9 year old were cool with it.

What about the trips in post 174?

 

[gluaisrothai]

Yeah, it was a long day. We did it in 2019 and 2020 and my 7 and 9 year old were cool with it.

What about the trips in post 174?

View attachment 2882818View attachment 2882821

Try them for yourself, go to evtripplanner.com and plug in the routes.

 

[Itsky]

The boring waste of time was in reference to the poster above who wrote of driving 900 miles in one day from point to point. Tell me that’s not a use case for an airplane vs any car? Grinding along for hours with only gas stops to break the monotony. I’d rather arrive nine hours ahead, rent a Jeep from Hertz and spend the day exploring.

And the CA-Moab route was in response to the same poster who asked for ev infrastructure support along that route.

I guess my wider point is that if you only know how to use a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. I’ve owned a Model S continuously since 2013 and have seen the exponential growth in the capability of the platform as charging infrastructure has expanded. Are there still limitations? Yup. Do I use it on every trip? Nope….often the 80 mile range Fiat is the best tool for city driving. But knowledge and fuel planning (pretty important in the air as well) help to make optimal use of the EV.

Not to sound harsh, but It's beginning to sound like you've never been on an adventure/road trip/camping trip.

So you fly from CA to AZ, take a taxi to hertz, rent a jeep. What about day 2? Did you rent the jeep for 5 days? What about your compressor to air down? And your camping gear? What about your dinner for day 3 and your first aid kit for your family? Was that in your duffle bag? Where did you pack your 4 mountain bikes?

 

[gluaisrothai]

It's beginning to sound like you've never been on an adventure/road trip/camping trip.

So you fly from CA to AZ, take a taxi to hertz, rent a jeep. What about day 2? Did you rent the jeep for 5 days? What about your compressor to air down? And your camping gear? What about your dinner for day 3 and your first aid kit for your family? Was that in your duffle bag? Where did you pack your 4 mountain bikes?

Right...

Not to sound harsh he says, then makes an uninformed personal judgy comment.

This thread is about the suitability of EVs for overland travel. And some posters came out with pretty atypical itineraries for overland trips to emphasize the charging issues associated with the current EV travel paradigm.

900 miles point to point in one day is not a typical overland trip- I think others said the same above. My point is that an LC is not a great choice for that trip either.

 

[Itsky]

Not to sound harsh he says, then makes an uninformed personal judgy comment.

This thread is about the suitability of EVs for overland travel. And some posters came out with pretty atypical itineraries for overland trips to emphasize the charging issues associated with the current EV travel paradigm.

900 miles point to point in one day is not a typical overland trip- I think others said the same above. My point is that an LC is not a great choice for that trip either.

I posted about 10 recent "overland" trips (see post #174), and you say they're atypical. These aren't even "overland" trips, these are my normal family camping trips that we take 2-6x a year. You can't get more typical than this. I do them in a lifted 200 with 33" BFGs but they can truthfully mostly be done in any stock toyota 4x4.

If this thread is about the suitability of EVs for "overland travel" - then please post a few "overland" routes an EV would suitable for.

 

[TeCKis300]

To be fair, I'm likewise trying to consolidate how to take an EV overlanding.

Understanding that even gas vehicles are tethered to infrastructure, and in some ways, the 200-series especially so as gas station are its natural habitat. Only going about 270-320 miles per fill. Depending on mods, can be more like 250 miles. I'm hoping the future Cybertruck with anticipated 500 miles stock range will cover for the nearer term infrastructure shortcoming. To be clear, there's now EVs that will have objectively better range than some gas equivalents.

There's no denying the EV fast charging L3 infrastructure is not as mature and widespread. But depending on area, it is actually more built out than most non-EV owners know. Outside of fast charging, the standard electrical infrastructure is hugely widespread allowing the aggregate advantage of commonly available L1 trickle charging, L1/L2 home charging, L1/L2 destination/hotel charging, and ubiquitous L2 campground charging. Campground charging is the one I hope that will take me farther off the beaten path until the broader L3 fast charging infrastructure catches up. Something that is growing at an exponential rate.

 

[gluaisrothai]

I posted about 10 recent "overland" trips (see post #174), and you say they're atypical. These aren't even "overland" trips, these are my normal family camping trips that we take 2-6x a year. You can't get more typical than this. I do them in a lifted 200 with 33" BFGs but they can truthfully mostly be done in any stock toyota 4x4.

If this thread is about the suitability of EVs for "overland travel" - then please post a few "overland" routes an EV would suitable for.

Evtripplanner.com brother, do your own homework. Many of your post 174 routes are well covered- for Tesla at least. Not sure how Rivian plans to get high speed DC charging covered.

And I stand over a 900 mile day being atypical, and a straw man.

By the way- the FBOs deliver the rental cars right to the airplane. No taxi

 

[KliersLC]

Evtripplanner.com brother, do your own homework. Many of your post 174 routes are well covered- for Tesla at least. Not sure how Rivian plans to get high speed DC charging covered.

And I stand over a 900 mile day being atypical, and a straw man.

By the way- the FBOs deliver the rental cars right to the airplane. No taxi

Maybe a 900 mile trip is atypical, but it is more common than you might think. Each of my military moves was over 2500 miles and 4 days are allocated for travel. A relatively common move amongst my Navy brethren is Whidbey Island, WA to Mayport, FL. This is 3200 miles, meaning 4x 800 mile days.

Now, can you have your stuff shipped by the Gov? Absolutely, but not firearms, or pets, or 3rd vehicles, or anything that you don't want broken or lost--read expensive guitars, Jewelry, etc. This happens to many thousands of military folks every summer--PCS season. (permanent change of station).

Doable in an EV loaded down with stuff or towing a small cargo trailer? Doubtful. The extra time charging directly translates to more time on the road, which then directly translates to grouchy munchkins and less sleep for everyone.

Also, I did ~4500 miles in 7 days this time last year for my brother's wedding-- I was limited in time because of my work schedule, and while flying into Billings\Cheyenne and renting a car was an option, it was cost prohibitive. I have a platform in the LX and slept in the car. Had a great time....

Day 1. Virginia Beach to Lawrence, KS. ~1200 miles.
Day 2. Lawrence, KS to Kaycee, WY. ~900 miles. 60 mph winds and blowing snow between Cheyenne and Buffalo.
Day 3. Kaycee, WY to Billings, MT. ~200 miles, stopped off at the VA hospital in Sheridan to get an infection cleaned out of my finger.
Day 4. Billings
Day 5. Billings to Cody, WY ~120 miles, and a wedding
Day 6. Cody, WY to Fairview Heights, MO. ~1240 miles freezing fog for about 50%
Day 7. Fairview Heights to Virginia Beach. 914 Miles.
Day 8. Back at work.

Of note, neither the hotel in Cody nor the one in Billings had an EV charger. The rest stop on I-70 in Kansas did have one, but the rest area in Kaycee, WY did not. Also the rest area on I-64 didn't.

Is there a way to accomplish that trip with an EV? Sure. Can it be done on my timeline. Not a chance. As stated other places in this thread, EVs are fine for what they are good at, but there are a lot of people out there that you are dismissing as "straw men."

I won't dismiss the utility that the EVs have in many situations, and you shouldn't dismiss the limitations that they have, especially by saying "just take the plane." I know this is the 200 forum and there are some very well off folks here, but that statement clearly indicates that you are out of touch with most Americans.

Pics for Attention: I wouldn't want to be stuck without juice in any of theses spots.

 

[Sdandrew75]

I know this is an old thread, but now that the Rivian is out on the road...I was up in Mammoth Lakes California last week, and saw to Rivians. There was at least 1-2 feet of snow on the road both times I saw them, and both times I saw them spinning wheels. Right as I was packing up my condo, a guy renting next door was packing his Rivian (wife works there), I asked him about it, said it drove great, but yeah, stock tires were spinning. It's got great weight balance for snow, but the tires are chosen for mileage per charge, not snow or mud, which is easily solved. No matter what, sticking with my 200, KO2's eat up snow like my fat ass at a buffet.

 

[Angelo1]

Thanks for your service

 

[gluaisrothai]

Maybe a 900 mile trip is atypical, but it is more common than you might think. Each of my military moves was over 2500 miles and 4 days are allocated for travel. A relatively common move amongst my Navy brethren is Whidbey Island, WA to Mayport, FL. This is 3200 miles, meaning 4x 800 mile days.

Now, can you have your stuff shipped by the Gov? Absolutely, but not firearms, or pets, or 3rd vehicles, or anything that you don't want broken or lost--read expensive guitars, Jewelry, etc. This happens to many thousands of military folks every summer--PCS season. (permanent change of station).

Doable in an EV loaded down with stuff or towing a small cargo trailer? Doubtful. The extra time charging directly translates to more time on the road, which then directly translates to grouchy munchkins and less sleep for everyone.

Also, I did ~4500 miles in 7 days this time last year for my brother's wedding-- I was limited in time because of my work schedule, and while flying into Billings\Cheyenne and renting a car was an option, it was cost prohibitive. I have a platform in the LX and slept in the car. Had a great time....

Day 1. Virginia Beach to Lawrence, KS. ~1200 miles.
Day 2. Lawrence, KS to Kaycee, WY. ~900 miles. 60 mph winds and blowing snow between Cheyenne and Buffalo.
Day 3. Kaycee, WY to Billings, MT. ~200 miles, stopped off at the VA hospital in Sheridan to get an infection cleaned out of my finger.
Day 4. Billings
Day 5. Billings to Cody, WY ~120 miles, and a wedding
Day 6. Cody, WY to Fairview Heights, MO. ~1240 miles freezing fog for about 50%
Day 7. Fairview Heights to Virginia Beach. 914 Miles.
Day 8. Back at work.

Of note, neither the hotel in Cody nor the one in Billings had an EV charger. The rest stop on I-70 in Kansas did have one, but the rest area in Kaycee, WY did not. Also the rest area on I-64 didn't.

Is there a way to accomplish that trip with an EV? Sure. Can it be done on my timeline. Not a chance. As stated other places in this thread, EVs are fine for what they are good at, but there are a lot of people out there that you are dismissing as "straw men."

I won't dismiss the utility that the EVs have in many situations, and you shouldn't dismiss the limitations that they have, especially by saying "just take the plane." I know this is the 200 forum and there are some very well off folks here, but that statement clearly indicates that you are out of touch with most Americans.

Pics for Attention: I wouldn't want to be stuck without juice in any of theses spots.
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Out of touch ha. On a forum devoted to one of the most expensive, least fuel efficient vehicles on the road today - and expensive modifications to the same, and on a thread in that forum comparing one $100k truck to another. And generally talking about trips taken for fun vs for necessity.

Anyway nobody is claiming that EVs are always the answer but for many trips, including those with off-road elements, they work just fine even with todays limited infrastructure. You just have to do a little research. I’m trying to bring the perspective of someone who’s lived with a long range EV for the best part of the last decade, and who also enjoys long distance travel- or at least the destination portion thereof.

Last point- I’m not a Bay Area native. I’m from Ireland, first in my family to get into university. I immigrated here not that long ago. My old man lived in New York for a decade or so before settling back in Ireland, and was drafted and served in Vietnam (15th arty, 66-68) so I appreciate your service as well.

Best.
Ken

 

[04UZJ100]

You know it’s a Cruiser forum when we’re arguing over MPGs, overlanding, and what to pack.

Range Rover forums are full of electrical gremlins

Jeep forums are full of build quality issues.

What will the Rivian forum be full of?

Who the **** cares what each of us use our trucks for? We are passionate about something with wheels which is a select few of the population. Want to drive an EV? Great! I’ll drive my gas guzzlers!

 

[eatSleepWoof]

You know it’s a Cruiser forum when we’re arguing over MPGs, overlanding, and what to pack.

Range Rover forums are full of electrical gremlins

Jeep forums are full of build quality issues.

What will the Rivian forum be full of?

Who the f*** cares what each of us use our trucks for? We are passionate about something with wheels which is a select few of the population. Want to drive an EV? Great! I’ll drive my gas guzzlers!

If we can’t argue on the internet, what good is it?!

 

[Reckless]

I see a number of people using their Teslas for overlanding, they camp inside their sedans at night. Now they are usually not going offroading but this is where Rivian outdoes Tesla (currently). Much easier purchasing a stock rivian putting proper tires and using it for overlanding then building a cruiser for overlanding. I think this is where EVs really shine. In stock form they are good to go overlanding vehicles. Electric heater/ac when vehicle is off, no need to get a hotel. Lets put hotels out of business with cybertruck vaults. Yes, you are under non stop big brother surveillance (even worse google) but if you are not doing anything illegal shouldnt bother you that every conversation is being recorded, tracked, monitored and can be used against you in a court of law. Tesla can remotely control your EV. Someday they will get hacked and God knows what will happen. Its only a matter of time we are colonized by AI ala matrix. At that time I am coming out in my 200 MAD MAX Style!

 

[Reckless]

 

[Angelo1]

View attachment 2883758

Better add the LRA 40

 

[KliersLC]

Out of touch ha. On a forum devoted to one of the most expensive, least fuel efficient vehicles on the road today - and expensive modifications to the same, and on a thread in that forum comparing one $100k truck to another. And generally talking about trips taken for fun vs for necessity.

Anyway nobody is claiming that EVs are always the answer but for many trips, including those with off-road elements, they work just fine even with todays limited infrastructure. You just have to do a little research. I’m trying to bring the perspective of someone who’s lived with a long range EV for the best part of the last decade, and who also enjoys long distance travel- or at least the destination portion thereof.

Last point- I’m not a Bay Area native. I’m from Ireland, first in my family to get into university. I immigrated here not that long ago. My old man lived in New York for a decade or so before settling back in Ireland, and was drafted and served in Vietnam (15th arty, 66-68) so I appreciate your service as well.

Best.
Ken

Fair points, but even among the 20 series folks, pilots are a small minority and pilots who own planes are even fewer.

I took a look at the EV route planning site and while there are more chargers in WY and MT than I expected, I did see a couple limitations.

1. All of the superchargers are on the interstate corridors except for a few in Jackson Hole--resort town so that makes sense. As I understand it, this would mean that any trip that was off the interstate would be limited to the following. EV range+~30% per day. (I based this on the 10 hour charging time for a standard charger).

2. The other thing I found is that the lion's share of the chargers are at campgrounds. This is interesting for a couple reasons. First, it somewhat suits overlanders, and supports towing a camper with something like the Rivian, but you'd still be limited by charging time. My best guesstimate is that you would be lucky to get in 200 miles per day when towing a camper, and you would HAVE to stay at a campground--no pulling in late and leaving early as you need the full ten hour charge. The other thing worth noting is that there are very few chargers at hotels.

All of that to say, that while it is possible to complete an "off the beaten path" trip in an EV in the inland northwest, it is horribly inefficient timewise, and the lack of chargers severely limits how far and how long you can go into the back country.

 

[AnyMal]

The minute any EV can assure me at least 10 years of use without swapping a $10k battery im out. Maybe even less than 10.
If you do the math, our cruiser is costing you 3x that amount in gas over that same 10 years at a modest $250/month in fuel.
But it will go for 30 years... and im not buying one new anyway. Thats why im in one.

As for now, you are lucky to get a solid 5 years out of a battery. But in any case, every use diminishes range. The environmental benefit? LOL elon please...
If you asked me to swap a normal s***box ICE for a tesla i would do so immediately, but im not in that market.

Idieally i wanna drive a nuclear submarine with O2 generator and water desalination.
Until then the Hummer EV looks incredible. The R1s is a good looking SUV though.

Our second car will 100% be BEV. Unless you think gas is going to collapse in cost then you cannot surmount the math.