Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts?
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If you are talking vehicle hp/torque the pictures are reversed.
My only comment to those criticizing Tesla build quality: Tesla is essentially a battery tech company that builds cars, not a car company going electric. They don't have the benefit of a century of product development. They went from zero to nearly a million vehicles per year in the space of 9 years (excluding the g1 roadster because it's a lotus). Yes, the over-reliance on touch screens is annoying, yes the door handles are gimmicky, sure, maybe the "panel gaps" (I always lol at this because this is something nobody pays attention to unless they're criticizing a Tesla) aren't perfect. But what kind of car was Peugeot cranking out in 1906? Or Ford in 1912?
Would a different car company do it better? You're damn right they would. If I could have bought an electric Lexus IS instead of a Tesla for the same price, I would have. (I got my brand new Tesla cheaper than an optioned-up Civic, BTW). But the point is no "car company" was even willing to give it a shot until Tesla proved it could be done. The hard way, from scratch.
Would a different car company do it better? You're damn right they would. If I could have bought an electric Lexus IS instead of a Tesla for the same price, I would have. (I got my brand new Tesla cheaper than an optioned-up Civic, BTW). But the point is no "car company" was even willing to give it a shot until Tesla proved it could be done. The hard way, from scratch.
To lean on Tesla being the first in EV as a legit reason to overlook crap QC is laughable. Kudos to them for breaking the barrier but offer a quality product alongside of that innovation. This mentality of accepting substandard attention to detail is what allows it to exist in the first place. I wish society as a whole would stop making excuses for things and just bone up and expect better in general.
hmmm…the COO of Rivian just quit, I mean “retired”. Company falls almost 200 shy of planned production goal and the company is losing money. Nothing to see here folks, keep ordering, keep placing orders for vehicles you may or may not get in 2022. While the COO cashes out his stock and the company market evaluation keeps sinking. Anyone remember when Rivian was $172 a share? I truly hope they get it turned around because I think it’s a great truck alternative and far nicer compared to anything Tesla is making. The cybertruck that may or may not exist is ridiculous in nature.
Don’t need to tell me bud, I grew up here. I lived in Houston for 20 years. Not to detract from the influx of destructive “investors”, people and their policies but Texas isn’t all that. Never was. What it was was cheap, and offered value. That is now gone. Doesn’t make sense to live here for cali prices. Id rather be in cali than Austin and pay slightly more to have that natural beauty. We moved back here mainly for family and now just like probably you, we “can’t go home again.”
People accept crap as acceptable. It’s the fault of society that treats objects as idols. Commercialism has injected this idea that you have to pick a side(brand,etc.) and battle your opinion against another. Look at all the people who still buy Land Rovers because they are pretty. Fish to a lure and people in general know LR isn’t reliable but they don’t care, they want that shiny object statement piece to validate themselves to others. Tesla and any EV is no different or the guy that drives a big lifted truck or the kid who has to have to the most obnoxiously loud civic. Toyota fanboys abound everywhere. I find it crazy how people take sides over material items that mean zip when you’re dead. EVs won’t fix the planet. I don’t have the answer but I think over population is part of it. Heck, Cruise ships, China and India are the biggest factors. Those countries are really causing harm and guess who makes most of the solar and batteries? Now go look at the areas around where all those material are minded and created. Pretty damn disgusting if you ask me.
Damn y’all talking my language now!
Tesla made EVs COOL. All of the intense hype and ideological dogmas that lead to its success aside (and evs in general) that was its biggest societal impact. I give it to them for that but let’s be honest here, without massive funding and loss operation they wouldn’t be here. As Angelo pointed out this is just a facet of the larger problem of the hyper financialization of the economy, winners are made not found. Let’s not pretend that the product is amazing either, they were just better than the competition. That is changing rapidly. 5 years ago I would have maybe begrudgingly bought one if I had to and dealt with the crap build. Now they either need to step it up or lose their massive market share. As was also brought up, this has already happened outside of the US.
Tesla made EVs COOL. All of the intense hype and ideological dogmas that lead to its success aside (and evs in general) that was its biggest societal impact. I give it to them for that but let’s be honest here, without massive funding and loss operation they wouldn’t be here. As Angelo pointed out this is just a facet of the larger problem of the hyper financialization of the economy, winners are made not found. Let’s not pretend that the product is amazing either, they were just better than the competition. That is changing rapidly. 5 years ago I would have maybe begrudgingly bought one if I had to and dealt with the crap build. Now they either need to step it up or lose their massive market share. As was also brought up, this has already happened outside of the US.
I own a tesla and it is 100% acceptable to me for the price I paid. Interior is just dandy, the nicest of any car I've owned including 5 Lesuses(Lexi?) in my subjective opinion. Panel gaps? Never noticed. Door handles are dumb, touch screen is a bit much (but most manufacturers are going this route nowadays). Suspension is a bit crude and would benefit from better shock absorbers. Maybe come to my house and point out all the flaws... I just don't see it. And I am a life-long car guy, not some Tesla fanboy. It's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it is an all around decent car for my needs 2.5 years and 60k miles in.
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bloc
SILVER Star
Hah, and Musk recently stated that humanity is doomed to extinction due to there not being enough of us, and that we need to be basically banging and pumping out children like rabbits if we want the human race to survive. Don't know where he's seeing that critical shortage of people...
Oh, and I came across this yesterday: REPORT Lufthansa group confirmed that 18,000 flights had been flown empty to keep airport slots - AIRLIVE - https://www.airlive.net/lufthansa-group-confirmed-that-18000-flights-had-been-flown-empty-to-keep-airport-slots/ . That's just one airline... Yes, please tell me more how I'm killing the planet with my natural gas heating and ICE vehicle...
I am glad that you enjoy your vehicle.
On quality, My thoughts.
We have been spoiled the last 10-20 years with nicer and nicer interiors and expect an ultra luxury interior in everything much over the $30k price point. Have you seen the new Kia interiors? They are inline with $300k+ cars from not that long ago. Yes my model 3 has a simple and basic interior. Yes I would prefer a even a few buttons (heck I still use the volume knob on the center console instead of the steering wheel buttons in my LX).
Compared to a $50-60k MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi, …even Kia the interior of my 3 is basic. That said the internals: drivetrain, handling, dynamics, the others are not anywhere close there. With my Tesla they money went to substance, with the others the money goes to superficial things. As my Dad would have said the others are like putting a bow on a turd.
I can take my model 3 and beat muscle cars in a 1/4 mile, beat anything stoplight to stoplight, beat Porsches in autocross, and then drive 300 miles for <$20.
I’ll add some of my favorite cars I’ve owned have some some features that could be considered substandard by some.
My dad had a Porsche 993. At the time the 993 was criticized greatly for a very poor interior, body gaps, loose panels, still being air cooled, goofy clutch,…. And it drove amazing. My s2000, which I bought as a track car, crappy seats which I pulled immediately for a 5 point, but the 2L at 9k was amazing. Even think about cruisers. My 80 and 200 were double what most competitors were at the time. On the surface many that don’t know what a LC is would think they are sub standard if examined superficially. Could say many of the same things about my caterham 7, 997 GT3, 996 turbo.
I guess it depends on what 'substance' means to you.
Me - I cannot stand a beat-up or poor quality interior. I've driven 2hrs (each way) to look at a vehicle that was ideal with the exception of scratches on interior buttons, and have passed on that vehicle because of those scratches. Numerous times. I'm in the interior 100% of the time I'm driving the vehicle, and I need to it be a pleasant place to be. That's substance to me. How often do I race from stoplight to stoplight? Never. That's not substance to me.
Thankfully there are many vehicle options in the market to satisfy all kinds of wants/needs, and substance interpretations!
Yes, thankfully there's lots of options depending on priorities.
Here's one - as an LX owner, would you be satisfied with the LC interior? [ducks out...]
rivian is getting screwed by the pandemic and chip shortages for sure, if they can hold on it will be interesting to see any passenger vehicles from them.
I only bought my '13 LX570 a few months ago but my plan is to enjoy it now as a luxury everyday use & offroader, and in 3-5 years when more electrics are out ill probably start considering one of those options and modifying the LX to be a sole offroading vehicle
I only bought my '13 LX570 a few months ago but my plan is to enjoy it now as a luxury everyday use & offroader, and in 3-5 years when more electrics are out ill probably start considering one of those options and modifying the LX to be a sole offroading vehicle
@Heckraiser @coleAK
Keep in mind i would still buy one up until like last year. Were not saying that they complete trash either, but our reality (perhaps sometimes overly critical reality) is starkly contrasted to the opposing proposition that Tesla was somehow gods automotive gift to mankind. Its nauseating to listen to when every one I've been in, and my friends have bought has been littered with issues albeit cosmetic and fit n finish.
The interior, and all thanks to God and please dont take this the wrong way is beneath what i would pay money for now and am accustomed to, specially given that Porsche and germans are in the game. It wouldn't have been an issue compared to Toyota or other plug ins of the first wave EVs.
In regards to the touchscreen, **** that. LOL end of story.
Keep in mind i would still buy one up until like last year. Were not saying that they complete trash either, but our reality (perhaps sometimes overly critical reality) is starkly contrasted to the opposing proposition that Tesla was somehow gods automotive gift to mankind. Its nauseating to listen to when every one I've been in, and my friends have bought has been littered with issues albeit cosmetic and fit n finish.
The interior, and all thanks to God and please dont take this the wrong way is beneath what i would pay money for now and am accustomed to, specially given that Porsche and germans are in the game. It wouldn't have been an issue compared to Toyota or other plug ins of the first wave EVs.
In regards to the touchscreen, **** that. LOL end of story.
Heh. I do, generally, much prefer the LX interior over the LC. However model years also come into play: A 2021 LC may have a better/nicer interior than my 2014LX; I don't know because I haven't been in a 2021 LC. Similarly, I hear the mouse/pad interface on 2016+ LXs is horrible, so that may be a reasonable deal breaker for some. Apples to apples, I prefer the LX.
After having a 2019 LX and now a new LC I can say that it's kind of a wash. I prefer the leather in the LX and it feels more luxurious more so from a layout and aesthetics stand point. The joystick/track pad is absolute garbage and I am glad to see that they finally moved away from it in the 300/LX600. I personally prefer the more sporty and subdued interior of the LC to the LX but I wouldn't say that the quality of materials (aside from the faux wood in the LC) feels any cheaper than that in the LX.
For what it’s worth to both of you, the LX 600 interior is exactly how I would imagine an elevated next gen land cruiser interior. Look at the LC 300 side by side actually and you will see it pretty clearly. Non ornate and utilitarian. It’s basically the opposite of how the 600 looks on the outside and is I’ll suited to the vehicle imo. Would be great on the 300 though and better aligned with its aesthetic.
