Replacing the starter on the trail. (2 Viewers)

[krice118]

yeah, well, I once had a brand new OEM Toyota fuel pump fail on me one week after it was installed. Even new, and especially rebuilt parts, can and do fail. Glad that pump failed on the highway between Dallas and Austin, and not on some remote trail in Utah.

Im a glass half full guy

 

[TexAZ]

I live about an hour away from the closest Toyota dealership. when my starter failed I rode my bike to autozone and picked up a new one.
installed it and drove home. 2 starts later the autozone starter died. I was furious. took it back and they just shrugged and gave me a refund. stopped buying parts at autozone that day.
if you buy a used 200 with over 120K on the clock and plan on driving off grid, replace the starter and carry a long screwdriver and jumper cables. no need to carry a spare starter. they are good for 100k plus. and knowing how to jumper it will get you back to civilization.

 

[chris777]

Im a glass half full guy

So am i. I am optimitic too. But i am 67 years old, and many times over the yeafs, i have had that sinking feeling you get when you realize something has broken on your vehicle, and you arent going to get to where you want to go until after you fix your vehicle. You are very dissappointed, and often others are very dissapointed, and it can happen at the most inopportune time. The remedy can take hours, or it can take days, depending upon how prepared you are. One of these days, you will break down too, maybe you will remember what i said here. At the very least, everyone should be bringing all their belts and hoses. On my FJ60, that means 18 hoses. Its a great feeling when you do break down, you are prepared, and it doesnt stop you, you are on your way in a couple of hours. Its a great feeling.

 

[Volunteer]

Im in the boat of PREVENTATIVE maintenance to negate most of the failures one might encounter in the field.

For a rig that sees alot of dirt, waiting for a part to fail before replacing it is dumb.

IF it were me, id buy the 200 and replace anything I was worried about failing me on the trail and enjoy it for a while

I'm also one of those guys that over maintains my rigs with PM if I suspect anything is off I replace it. I don't want to spoil my trip or those that are with me in a breakdown situation. I don't want to be that guy however I do understand it happens and the better you are prepared to address it the less stressful the trip will be. To date in my 40's, 80 and now with the 200 the anal PM mindset (as described by my wife ) has proved me well and I've never broken anything on a trail or trip (did I just curse myself). I have 140K on the OEM starter on the 200 the new version is on the shelf and will be replaced before the next big trip. Around town for the commutes it doesn't bother me as I can get it home to replace it. That said I don't have any plans to carry any spares other than fluids, tools and the old belt as a spare. The word from the guru's here is the radiator and the starter were the weak links between 100- 120K if you address those issues drive it and enjoy. I do appreciate the thread though as others said knowing the trick on jumping it with the cables and screwdriver reminds of the old days with the solenoids on the Fords when they would fail we'd always short it with a screwdriver (Dad use to be a Ford guy in the 80's ).

 

[linuxgod]

i am just telling where i am coming from. My experience is with my 33 year old Landcruiser. It is the only thing i have ever taken on overland expeditions. It has 400,000 miles on it after you adjust for the oversize tires on it. It has its disadvantages, believe me. It is slow on the highway, in the mountains, and off road. The engine and the suspension are from the 1940s. It only has two advantages, that i can think of. I can lug my engine down to 400 rpms without stalling, and i can work on her very easily. I will never get rid of her. She has been in calendars and in three Toyotal Trails trip articles that i have written. But i am very interested in having something easier to drive up to Utah from Texas, and, easier to drive when i get on the off road trails in Utah and Arizona. Because i am quickly approaching my 70s. I have said all this before, but i realize that people dont read all the posts. The only thing that stops me from buying a 5 year old 200 series land cruiser is my concern that when a part fails, especially a part that is known to fail on the 200 series, the starter. My question: is it is too difficult to replace on the trail, and are you are looking at a huge expensive ordeal to rectify the situation. So yes, i am comparing the 60 and the 200 when it comes to trail side repairability. Why is that so wrong?

The short answer is that it's not too difficult to replace the starter on the trail if you have good tools and half a day (or if you're slow like me a full day) to do it. That said I have NOT done it, I've just read about others doing it on this forum. In general there's nothing on a 200 that you can't replace like your 60 (except for ECUs), it's just harder to get to sometimes as modern vehicles "optimize" engine bay space.

As far as comparing the 60 to the 200 for repairability, my point is that you'll need to make far fewer repairs for a long time, so don't get too hung-up on needing to carry belts, hoses, water pump, starter, CVs, tie rods, etc. I know how often stuff fails on an old vehicle - I had a '66 Mustang from 1994-1999 in which I swapped or rebuilt everything at least once, including part of the frame. I did 3 starters on that car before figuring out that I needed to rig up a heat shield. I used to carry tons of spare parts and tools and fluids just driving around town because even the stuff that looked OK one day would mysteriously die the next.

When you own an older vehicle you start to get paranoid about what might break and you load up on things to ensure you can get home. What I (and I think most of the guys here) are saying is if you buy a 200 with 100k miles on it, spend $2-3k in PM (or maybe $1k if you do it yourself), you can leave most of your tools and spare parts and home and overland for another 100k+ without too much concern for things likely to leave you stranded. If it does break down, either travel with others who can give you a lift out and back, or get your HAM license or a GPS locator so you can radio for help if you do get stuck.

 

[dc916cruiser]

So does anyone know exactly what part of the starter is failing at 100k+ miles? Has anyone tried to rebuild it versus replacing? I've had pretty good luck rebuilding a starter on a different vehicle and replacing the copper contacts that eventually wore away. Just a thought...

 

[linuxgod]

So am i. I am optimitic too. But i am 67 years old, and many times over the yeafs, i have had that sinking feeling you get when you realize something has broken on your vehicle, and you arent going to get to where you want to go until after you fix your vehicle. You are very dissappointed, and often others are very dissapointed, and it can happen at the most inopportune time. The remedy can take hours, or it can take days, depending upon how prepared you are. One of these days, you will break down too, maybe you will remember what i said here. At the very least, everyone should be bringing all their belts and hoses. On my FJ60, that means 18 hoses. Its a great feeling when you do break down, you are prepared, and it doesnt stop you, you are on your way in a couple of hours. Its a great feeling.

FWIW TexAZ broke a CV on a trail in Moab. He didn't have spare parts. He rode off the trail with someone, rented a Jeep the next day, bought parts, and then came back and fixed it. Yes it cost him a few days. If it had been me, I'm not sure I could've busted my old CV loose on the trail, so even if I had a spare CV I don't know that I could've fixed it anyway. (I say this having watched a mechanic struggle to get a CV loose with power tools, so me and a block of wood and a BFH might not be enough)

When I replaced my radiator due to visible fatigue (the infamous hairline crack forming) I replaced the coolant hoses too. That's what I mean by PM.

When my LC has 400k miles on it I will probably be a LOT more concerned with carrying spare parts. At some point you can't do PM on everything.

If you're 67, buy a newer low mileage 200, build it, and overland with it. Do good PM and take care of the stuff that tends to show up in the 80-120k range and assuming you're driving 20k miles per year it'll likely last you until you're in your 80s before you start to worry about the reliability.

 

[TonyP]

That mechanic sucks.
I'm remarkably dumb, but Kamal, Patrick, and I removed the busted CV, minus the inner portion so diff oil wouldn't spill out, easily with a cordless impact (helpful but not needed) and a hammer. Getting the inner spline out can be tricky though if you don't have a slide hammer and the c-clip doesn't play nicely.

 

[linuxgod]

That mechanic sucks.
I'm remarkably dumb, but Kamal, Patrick, and I removed the busted CV, minus the inner portion so diff oil wouldn't spill out, easily with a cordless impact (helpful but not needed) and a hammer. Getting the inner spline out can be tricky though if you don't have a slide hammer and the c-clip doesn't play nicely.

I dunno, I watched him with and air tool hammering on the lip on the inner portion of the CV and it took quite a while before it started to work loose. Maybe a block of wood and a BFH would've worked better? I would've thought the hammer drill or whatever the hell he was using would've made quicker work of it than I could have. Hopefully I won't bust a CV on a trail but if I do I'll let you know how the removal goes.

Someone around here once mentioned that after you've pulled your CVs once they're much easier in the future. Since Patrick's were Tundra take-offs I wonder if that made any difference?

*shrugs*

 

[TexAZ]

So does anyone know exactly what part of the starter is failing at 100k+ miles? Has anyone tried to rebuild it versus replacing? I've had pretty good luck rebuilding a starter on a different vehicle and replacing the copper contacts that eventually wore away. Just a thought...

Real time STARTER help

all you ever wanted to know about the 200 series starter.......and more.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Non-issue. Upgrade to the new starter offering and you'll be fine. Learn to jump start it in he field and you'll never be stranded. While there are things that can/do fail on a 200, they are no less reliable than any previous LC imo and the few faults they do have can easily be mitigated imo.

Hell, every Land Cruiser had its fault. The stalwart 70 Series are no different. Here we are in uber remote Australia and had a clutch start failing. These guys know enough about clutches to pack a spare so I got to get my hands dirty and swap a clutch on a borrowed lift in a small town, s*** happens.

 

[mark71]

Non-issue. Upgrade to the new starter offering and you'll be fine. Learn to jump start it in he field and you'll never be stranded. While there are things that can/do fail on a 200, they are no less reliable than any previous LC imo and the few faults they do have can easily be mitigated imo.

Hell, every Land Cruiser had its fault. The stalwart 70 Series are no different. Here we are in uber remote Australia and had a clutch start failing. These guys know enough about clutches to pack a spare so I got to get my hands dirty and swap a clutch on a borrowed lift in a small town, s*** happens.

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I'm sorry, I may have missed it: what is the "new starter" upgrade?

Good points, BTW.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I'm sorry, I may have missed it: what is the "new starter" upgrade?

Good points, BTW.

The old starter supercedes to a new starter, it's smaller and easier to install/swap

 

[IOPTURBO]

Is there a Denso part number for the new starter? I'm at 154K and figure i might as well do it.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Is there a Denso part number for the new starter? I'm at 154K and figure i might as well do it.

 

[chris777]

Wow, thanks everybody. Great thread. So glad to learn that the new starter is smaller and easier to swap. When i get a used 200, someday, i will do just that, replace the old one with the smaller one. Thanks again.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Two questions -
1-Who will be the heroic person to post a how-to video for triggering the starter with screwdriver and jumper cable?

2-Can you determine whether you have the old vs new style starter without taking everything apart?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Two questions -
1-Who will be the heroic person to post a how-to video for triggering the starter with screwdriver and jumper cable?

2-Can you determine whether you have the old vs new style starter without taking everything apart?

I'll see about knocking out a quick video.

Yes, I believe you could see the difference on the vehicle.

Old vs new. Length of starter motor relative to solenoid should be dead giveaway.

 

[bloc]

Is the new unit less kw?

I seem to remember three different starters were made for 80-series with the biggest/most powerful coming in vehicles sold in colder markets.

 

[Rigger]

@chris777

If I’m on the trail, and my starter fails, that’s gonna ruin my day. I’ll pull out my AAA Premium card, I suppose, and point the tow truck driver to @cruiseroutfit shop.

But, until that happens, here’s why I like my 200 better than my 62, despite the lack of a quick-change starter:

Bigger, better engine.
Better transmission.
200 knows what the passing lane is for.
Goes faster than 50 mph. (My wife’s comment LOL!)
Actually has cruise control.
Much nicer interior.
Front & rear climate control.
More seats.
Crawl control.
Did you know that the 200 has a power tilt/telescope steering wheel?
And finally; cupholders!


I’m 57. Ten years your junior. And I’d never go back to a 60 series. They look cool, but they are too darned uncivilized.

But hey, different strokes for different folks.