Replaced Starter Contacts. Still Intermittant Starting!!! Sleuth needed. (1 Viewer)

[roncruiser]

LT, with all due respect, I've seen a lot of pitted electrical contacts. Pull your ignition switch apart and post up pics. You can slide over an electrical contact and have pit/arcing, or momentarilyy push an electrical contact and have pit/arcing.

It's exactly the same problem, causing the exact same intermittent and failure. BTST x too many. You do not need to replace the ignition tumbler assbly, only the POS plastic insert with the electrical connections.

No sugar coating. And Beowolf, the 93 switch I replaced had everything *and* a smurf doll hanging off the key ring. Excellent point on that... As one of my shop buddies said with his thick polish accent, "use the ignition switch to insert your key, not as a key hook for your pocket trash"

ST

Sumo, don't forget to post them pictures of old worn, pitted contacts. Thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ignition switch has not arrive yet. Though, I know its on the way, because payment just cleared yesterday. Hopefully, it'll be in by tomorrow for a Saturday morning install.

Ron

 

[SUMOTOY]

Sumo, don't forget to post them pictures of old worn, pitted contacts. Thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ignition switch has not arrive yet. Though, I know its on the way, because payment just cleared yesterday. Hopefully, it'll be in by tomorrow for a Saturday morning install.

Ron

I'll look around my wall of fame, as I haven't see the car I'm to do it to yet. In the meantime, if you get yours done and in first on the 80, you can post em. Watch that starter return spring inbedded in the plastic Ron!

ST

 

[concretejungle]

I said i would update and i am....

Got my truck buttoned back up after replacing the plunger and contacts in the starter. I was having the same issue as roncruiser, meaning i would turn the key and there was a pause, then the truck would crank. Eventually the pause got longer and longer until it wouldn't start.

Fired right up, no pause, and thus far (after 1 day) no hesitations at all. knock-on-wood.

 

[roncruiser]

I said i would update and i am....

Got my truck buttoned back up after replacing the plunger and contacts in the starter. I was having the same issue as roncruiser, meaning i would turn the key and there was a pause, then the truck would crank. Eventually the pause got longer and longer until it wouldn't start.

Fired right up, no pause, and thus far (after 1 day) no hesitations at all. knock-on-wood.

Good luck to you! Here's hoping that's your only fix.

 

[roncruiser]

I'll look around my wall of fame, as I haven't see the car I'm to do it to yet. In the meantime, if you get yours done and in first on the 80, you can post em. Watch that starter return spring inbedded in the plastic Ron!

ST

Are most ignition switches built the same way?

 

[maverick_sr71]

If the contacts looked some what OK you most likely need an ignition switch.


Here is what I believe to be happening,

You turn the key and there is a bad connection through the switch which produces a weakened magnetic field in the solenoid.

Not so weak that the plunger doesn't move, so you hear a click but no turn over.

The plunger has the contact hat at one end, a large "plunger" shaft and then a small rod at the end. That rod slides down the inside of a compression spring. It's that spring that pushes against the pinion gear to move it into the flex plate.

Now if the pinion gear and flex plate are aligned reasonably well, even in it's weakened state, the solenoid will move the pinion into the flex plate completely and the plunger will connect with the contacts producing a click and the starter turns.

However if the pinion and flex plate are aligned so the gears don't mesh, then the pinion and flex plate collide with a click and the weakened magnetic field cannot over come the resistance of the spring so the plunger never connects with the contacts and nothing happens.

In a healthy system, if the pinion were to collide with the flex plate the plunger would continue to compress the spring making the connection with the contacts and starting the motor, where the rotation would finish moving the pinion into place providing solid drive to start the engine.


At least this is what I think is happening, I have an order in for a switch.

I told you guys this over a week ago (perhaps not in such detail), is it that hard to beleive an Aussie?

Ignition switches are expencive so in Oz we just stick a relay in the system as I've discribed previously.

 

[landtank]

I told you guys this over a week ago (perhaps not in such detail), is it that hard to beleive an Aussie?

I don't work on a believe system, I work on an understanding one. The hard thing for me to understand was if the solenoid would click why wouldn't the starter turn. I had assumed that the click was the plunger hitting the contacts.

It wasn't until the idea that the click was the gears hitting one another restricting the plunger form hitting the contacts that I could get the no start and solenoid operation straight in my mind.

As you said, parts are expensive, and the only way I know of keeping the cost down is to limit the number of times I guess on what is needed. For me, until I could get that click/no start situation clear I wasn't going to buy a switch.

 

[zcruiser]

Are most ignition switches built the same way?

I believe so, that's how my Maxima ignition switch was built.

 

[roncruiser]

I hope the switch comes in today.

 

[roncruiser]

The ignition switched arrived today. Snapped off a few pictures here at work. Seems simple enough to replace.

 

[SUMOTOY]

The ignition switched arrived today. Snapped off a few pictures here at work. Seems simple enough to replace.

Don't forget to do surgery on the old one.

ST

 

[roncruiser]

Pics

More pics.

 

[roncruiser]

Don't forget to do surgery on the old one.

ST

Yup. This thread wouldn't be complete without it. I'll be sure to post'em pics too.

 

[roncruiser]

Replaced the ignition switch this morning. The slight lag that was there between key turn and starter cranking is no more. Gone. The play that was there is gone as well. The feel is much more precise.

Removing the ignition switch is fairly straight forward.
I first removed the drivers side knee panel and the air duct. In the maze of wires I found the main plug to the ignition swtich. Its was a bit stubborn but finally pulled it apart.

To remove the actual switch head assembly, there's a philips head screw holding it in place. This needs to be removed. Its hidden near the top of the switch assembly. I used the new ignition switch as a reference to locate this screw. The screw is a small pain to remove but only because its difficult to see at first.

I then had to crack open the front dash/control panel to get to two small screws. These small screws are located on the top of the key barrell/tumbler assembly. A pair of wires pigtail off the ignition switch wire harness and lead to a switch. This switch is held on by these two small scews. After removing these screws, the ignition switch assembly was free to remove.

Install was reverse of the above.

Later, I'll post pics of the cracked open old ignition switch assembly to show any damage and wear.

Below is a picture of the cracked open dash to expose the two small screws that need to be removed.

 

[concretejungle]

UPDATE:

OK, so after replacing the contacts/plunger in my starter, all was well. Until today. In the middle of it cranking (meaning as the starter had just turned themotor over once), it was almost like it cut out just for a second and then tried to pick back up. It sounded almost like my starter broke. It was a loud, almost popping noise. So i released the key, waited just a second or two and then turned it again. It fired up.

There wasn't a hesitation or pause. It was as if the power was pulled from the starter right in the middle of it's cycle and then reapplied.

Does this sound like ignition contact issues?

 

[roncruiser]

UPDATE:

OK, so after replacing the contacts/plunger in my starter, all was well. Until today. In the middle of it cranking (meaning as the starter had just turned themotor over once), it was almost like it cut out just for a second and then tried to pick back up. It sounded almost like my starter broke. It was a loud, almost popping noise. So i released the key, waited just a second or two and then turned it again. It fired up.

There wasn't a hesitation or pause. It was as if the power was pulled from the starter right in the middle of it's cycle and then reapplied.
Does this sound like ignition contact issues?

I'm not exactly sure. It could be. I'd lean towards saying "yes" it sounds like an ignition contact issue. Here's why:

After installing the new ignition switch, I took the old one apart. First off, I noticed the pitted and worn areas. The worn areas I understood. The contacts sliding across metal contact plate time and time again will sooner or later create a wear path. Akin, to wearing a trail after walking the same path again and again and again.... Surprisingly the wearing was not very severe, but then again I have nothing to reference against. So, that does not mean it's not severe.

There were several areas of pitting on the metal contact plate. In one spot the pitting was very severe. The pitting in this spot was the size of the contact itself. I began to see why there could possibly be intermittent contact at this point. No clear evidence of arcing though.

The next day, I decided to reassemble the old ignition switch. After putting it back together I noticed something significant. As I turned the assembly by hand to watch the contact points slide across the metal contact plate, I noticed in some instances the contact would actually separate and pull away from the plate. Not slide off the plate like it should, but pull and torque off the contact plate. Essentially, creating no contact when the key would have been turned. Other times it would slide smoothly across the contact plate. I think that more than anything else created my intermittent contact. Now, I'm not 100 percent positive I'm recreating the failure but it darn sure looks like it!

 

[landtank]

I think that were are seeing where the "common" repair for this problem has now been replaced do to overall age of the components. My switch is on the way and will be installed next weekend.

CJ, I'd do the same.

 

[concretejungle]

sounds like i will be placing an order. At least once this is all finished i will know the cruzer should start everytime for a long time.....unless the battery gives up the ghost.

 

[roncruiser]

Update: Rocksolid.

 

[bhaines]

maybe I should have had a bet on the igintion switch being the problem.......