Removing 3FE/trans combo, how should I separate? (2 Viewers)

[ERICH]

Hello All
I am going to be removing the 3FE/trans combo from a 62 I have, there is a bad main bearing I think or rod bearing. I do all my own work, though I have never removed an engine before. I am wondering when I get the combination out and it is hanging from the hoist, how do I separate the trans from the engine without bending, breaking or dropping anything? How much does the trans and transfercase weigh? Should I build a wooden craddle/palet on the ground for the trans/t-casse to sit on?
I have a monsterous hoist that is 30 years old, it could pick up several trucks, so I am not worried about its stability. I am also wondering once I am all set up to pull it and I slowly lower the transmission jack, how much will the combo pivot? I was also wondering where abouts on the load leveler should the hoist be positioned to make for an easier removal? One more question, will I be able to visually tell which bearing is bad on disassembly (lines, scoring, etc)?
Thanks for all your input in advance.
ERICH

 

[ERICH]

Huh?

 

[dmwberg]

Not sure what exactly you're after, but here goes...

Don't remove them together, its a PITA. Remove all connectors and linkage, put a jack under the tranny, drop the driveshafts from the t-case, drop the crossmember, unbolt the tranny from the bellhousing/engine, and slide it out. Then pull the hood, radiator and and everything else in front of the engine. You can't just pull it up, you have to slide it forward. Disconnect everything from the engine (this will take forever), set the leveler pretty even, and pull. This is a big job; label everything if you've never done it before. And even it you have. Find a way to organize the bolts. Also drain your fluids. If you just need to work on the engine (its not clear from your posts) just pull the engine, leaving the tranny in the truck. Simply disconnect everything and unbolt from the tranny.

Messing with the bottom end of the engine is tricky; if you 've never done this before you will probably need help from someone who has. At the very least the factory shop guides. Also if you're getting this deep in the engine (again its unclear from your posts) you might as well rebuild it all. At the very least all new rings and cam/crank bearings. You will need a special tool to do the camshaft bearings. Engine bearings usually show obvious wear when they're a problem. Scortching, pitting, scoring, etc. They should be shiny and smooth.

Good luck,
Doug

 

[ERICH]

Doug
The factory manual says to take it out together, that why I thought I would. It's an engine with under 100K that someone was towing a trailer through the mountains with and it started to knock. It does so (well most pronounced anyway) only when it is not under load, in park or neutral. From underneath the truck it sounds like it is coming from the very back of the engine. I want to pull the crank and have it checked, resurfaced if need be, change which ever set of bearings it is and see how it runs?
Am I off target here?
I guess what I am wondering is how to manage the unit once it is out. If it were just he engine I would just mount it on the stand, but I am wondering what is the best way to get the trans off the engine in a managable way. I like the idea of taking them out together like the manual says so I wouldn't have to rent a trans jack twice.
ERICH

 

[dd113]

Pull the entire mess as a whole. Drop all the crap outa the way then yank it out. SUpport the motor on a cart/pallet etc... with the hoist holding the tranny/TC combo. Bust the nuts on the tourque converter and bellhousing then pull the tranny back from the motor block assy. Support the tranny on blocks then pull the TC although you can do it first while the motor is on the stand and the tranny is connected.

If the goal is to pull it all out the only way to go is to do it all at once. It is designed to come in/out that way.

On a 62 it is much easier to pull it all at once than to try and mess with getting the tranny lined up under the truck.

Our best time ever is 1 hr 35min on a 3FE drivetrain

 

[Aseif007]

I agree with dd113, pull the engine and tranny and T-case out together. All I used was a chain, a hoist and a floor/tranny jack. Disconnect everything, suppport under the tranny with the jack, attach the chain to the hooks on the motor but remember that you have to clear the front of the cruiser so the front of the engine will be very high in the air because you can't pull it out level. The tranny side will be leaning back. We pulled one and installed two in one day so it isn;t too hard. Make sure you have a tall hoist and a strong chain. Goog luck.

Andrew

88' FJ-62
97' FZJ-80
01' TRD Tacoma

 

[Gumby]

As you can see from the above pics, it's pretty easy to pull if you take out the radiator, core support, and a/c condensor. Kepp in mind you will have to discharge and recharge the A/C if you do this. Discharging is illegal and somewhat dangerous. Make sure you keep it from freezing your eyes. Recharging can be a pain, unless you plan on re-fitting to a R-134 system.

You can't just remove the bellhousing on a 62. If it's a seized bearing, you will have a very hard time removing the torque converter bolts in the truck. if it's just a knock and the engine still turns, you could do it either way. Probably easier to pull the whole driveline.

 

[ERICH]

Thanks for your input and advice guys. Especailly for the photos. You guys are great! The FSM says to set the condenser aside still attached, why did you guys decide to remove them? It is just a knock. My real concern is separating the transmission from the engine while they are outside the vehicle. I'm looking for a basic, home mechanic, stable solution. Can I just lower it so the transmission half is on a pallet, unbolt it, and roll the engine away from it (making sure the torque converter stays in the trans)? Here's what it really boils down to; is can the pans handle the weight of the assembly while I remove the transmission, I don't won't deform or crush them?
Thanks again.
ERICH
P.S. that is an amazing side of the road work, most impressive and efficient .

 

[Aseif007]

ERICH,
NO, do not put the engine down on the oil pan. Most likely your 15 year old pan will crack as I have seen it happen twice. Find an old tire or something that gives to set it on. The FSM tells you to remove the A/C compressor because it is on top of the passenger side motor mount and you cannot remove the mount until you remove the A/C compressor. Separating the motor and tranny isn't very difficult. Before you pull the motor or disconnect anything you could go under your car and un-do the torque converter bolts, then when you pull the engine and tranny you just have to remove the bellhousing bolts and then the two should separate. It doesn;t just happen that easy, but it isn;t very hard either.

Andrew

 

[ERICH]

What about the condensor in front of the radiator? I thought in the manual it said to leave the lines attached and to just set it aside, in your pics both condsors were removed. Is there a particular reason for this?
Thanks again.
ERICH

 

[Aseif007]

ERICH,

I don;t think it really matters what you do as long as you can clear that area so the motor can go through. I completly removed everything because I have access to nitrogen and R-12. When the system gets exposed to air moisture gets in the lines. Then the dryer (I think it is at least) gets too wet and needs replacing; OEM toyota ~$30. If you can just set the lines aside that would be the best way because you won;t need to purge/charge the A/C. I haven't tried this so I can't say for sure. I can re-charge my system myself so it isn;t as big a deal for me. In my opinion R-12 is a much better refregerant. My 97' FZJ-80 (R-134A) doesn't cool as well as my 88' FJ-62 (R-12).

Andrew

 

[ERICH]

Alright, like I said I don't know much About automatics this is the only one I have owned,is the torque converter the equivilent of the clutch and pressure plate in a manual ? Once torque converter is unbolted through the hole and I remove the trans, do I make sure it stays on the shaft?
Thanks.
ERICH

 

[Gumby]

No. It does need to come out with the trans, but once disconnected, you can remove the torque converter.Even if you leave it in place it is very important that it is seated fully into the front pump of the trans before bolting the assy to the engine. If you do remove and drain the converter, your pump will appreciate it if you refill the converter before reinstalling it.

 

[Gumby]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm

 

[JK]

Why Pull The Engine?

Have you done any tests to isolate the problem?
I would pull the oil pan and look for debris. If none rotate the crank until you can get a good look at each cylinder. Worst case pull the head and remove each piston/rod and inspect. The only reason I suggest this is due to your low mileage. If you open her up and and find you have to pull the engine you have only lost a couple hours. Good Luck

 

[Roxispeed]

If its a knock sound, but only in park or nutruel , but doesnt make sound under load, it may be a cracked flywheel.

I just (literally) had to do this on my suburban today. I had a time figuring out what it was at first, Id listen to the oil pan, sounded like a rod knock, but not steady bang bang bang, more rattley kinda knock, poked around found out this is semi common.

It had cracked around the crankshaft bolts in center of flywheel.

The nice thing was I only had to get trans back about 1.5 inches, left lines & drive shafts in place, jack under transfer case, put 3" bolts in bellhousing in place of normal ones, & slide trans back.

Just a thought

Jeff

 

[ERICH]

The knock is actually in all gears but is the loundest in park and neutral. Although, with the little fly wheel inspection cover off it it did sound like it was coming from the very back of the engine at the flywheel, I thought it must be the either the last rod or main bearing and the sound was coming through the flywheel better than through the oil pan filled with oil? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
ERICH

 

[Gumby]

You can test the rod bearing by pulling and grounding the spark plug wire. The sound of the knock will change when there is no combustion load on it.

The knock will sound louder through the block than through the oil pan. You can do the old screwdriver-to-the-ear trick to try and track it down. Flywheel knocks sure do sound like rod knocks. I want to say they knock louder at idle than under load vs. rod knocks that are loudest under load.

 

[60wag]

On my FJ60, I was able to move the AC condenser out of the way while keeping the hoses connected to it. I'm not sure if its any harder on a 62.

 

[ERICH]

Alright, this kinda sucks. I have it all set to pull, everything is disconected and now I wish had known about this flywheel thing. Is it possible to check for this crack in the flywheel through the little inspection hole? All I have to is undo the transmission cross member and lift it out, so at this point I would rather just lift it out if the transmission has to come off for this type of inspection as I don't own a transmission jack and if the engine has to come out anyway I can use my floor jack to support it right before it comes out.
Thanks for all your advice.
ERICH