Red Creek (3 Viewers)

[inkpot]

Looking at the MAP <link we were all parked within the Mazatzal Wilderness boundaries

Attempted to post a map but the file was to large

Interesting. I was always told that the river was the border. Hmmm? Also looks like there is a lot of other ways to drive up to the runway from about 2 big turns back up Red Creek. Wonder if they were blocked off. Lot of double tracks off to the south of the whole area. John

 

[DSRTRDR]

IIRC, on the Tonto Travel Management Plan, FR18 is marked as a corridor only

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Interesting. I was always told that the river was the border. Hmmm? Also looks like there is a lot of other ways to drive up to the runway from about 2 big turns back up Red Creek. Wonder if they were blocked off. Lot of double tracks off to the south of the whole area. John

I looked at several maps to find one to post and they all show the same boundary.

Saddletramp tried to access the runway and the road he was on was blocked.

 

[Saddletramp]

Looking at the MAP <link we were all parked within the Mazatzal Wilderness boundaries

Attempted to post a map but the file was to large

Phil, I looked at this map and my Tonto Forrest map
Hiking Arizona's Superstition and Mazatzal Country - Bruce Grubbs - Google Books

I went to the top of the hill and there was a Forrest sign marking the road as closed to the airstrip. I don't think we were in the wilderness until we cross the Verde, which we did not.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Phil, I looked at this map and my Tonto Forrest map
Hiking Arizona's Superstition and Mazatzal Country - Bruce Grubbs - Google Books

I went to the top of the hill and there was a Forrest sign marking the road as closed to the airstrip. I don't think we were in the wilderness until we cross the Verde, which we did not.

Did you look at the map from U.S. National Wilderness Preservation I linked?

It shows the runway not in wilderness

 

[mtkreitz]

Mike where is the one where the filled up the jeep with water from the spinning tire?

Geeze you know I never even thought about adding it... I joined the forum quite a while after I sold it and moved onto 80's. Thanks for the reminder. I just emailed the guy in Michigan to send me some recent photos. I am curious to see how it looks after a couple of years. I feel like a surrogate parent.

 

[ChaseTruck]

In our canoeing days (we've done the Camp Verde to Horseshoe trip several times) the Verde river (south of Red Creek) was considered to be the wilderness boundary towards the East, and so was Red Creek close to the Verde to the North. That meant that the Red Creek area south of the Creek and east of the Verde, including the airstrip, were not in the wilderness.
Maybe the wilderness boundary was redrawn at some point? Or the east-west coordinates don't match between sat image and the overlay?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

In our canoeing days (we've done the Camp Verde to Horseshoe trip several times) the Verde river (south of Red Creek) was considered to be the wilderness boundary towards the East, and so was Red Creek close to the Verde to the North. That meant that the Red Creek area south of the Creek and east of the Verde, including the airstrip, were not in the wilderness.
Maybe the wilderness boundary was redrawn at some point? Or the east-west coordinates don't match between sat image and the overlay?

As I type Sadletramp and I are looking at several gov maps showing different things....... who'da thought

 

[azTony]

The tree that attacked my rig!

I think it was the new tires that the tree was trying to break in

 

[RHINO]

everything is wilderness except the fr18 corridor and the airstrip. the airstrip is accessible by vehicle upstream. its a little tricky finding the trail but its there and its a decent shelf rd up to the picnic table and horshoe pit.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

THE BEST VIDEO The last 10 sec not to be missed

Video Credit to wilburluvsyotas and Budweiser

 

[DSRTRDR]

As I type Sadletramp and I are looking at several gov maps showing different things....... who'da thought

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

In our canoeing days (we've done the Camp Verde to Horseshoe trip several times) the Verde river (south of Red Creek) was considered to be the wilderness boundary towards the East, and so was Red Creek close to the Verde to the North. That meant that the Red Creek area south of the Creek and east of the Verde, including the airstrip, were not in the wilderness.
Maybe the wilderness boundary was redrawn at some point? Or the east-west coordinates don't match between sat image and the overlay?

Michael check this out A boaters guide to the Verde River by the Forest Service. See page 21 showing another version of wilderness boundaries

 

[DSRTRDR]

this is the map included with the Boater's Guide to the Verde River that is/was available from the Tonto website - Page 21

which shows that Wilderness does not include the area downriver right (miles ~40.5 to 41, west of the Verde is to the right, north to the bottom), at least below the Wild and Scenic River Boundary - Red Creek itself was never in the Wilderness, and neither the air strip - both are in the National Forest

that's what we have always gone by - when I asked at the Cave Creek ranger station this past July about FR18, they had no clue where it even was - I showed them on their map but they claimed they had no information as to its status

 

[Saddletramp]

Looking at the MAP <link we were all parked within the Mazatzal Wilderness boundaries

Attempted to post a map but the file was to large

Look at picture 3 in post 24, you can see that our cruisers are not witin he last 20 feet next to the Verde. I say on any map we are good. Not sure I can say ypthe same about the jeep crew or John

 

[Saddletramp]

THE BEST VIDEO The last 10 sec not to be missed

Video Credit to wilburluvsyotas and Budweiser

This was one of those moments that was too surreal to believe unless it was on video. Jeep friends don't last and now we can all see why.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Phil, I was wrong with the north bank of Red Creek being a wilderness boundary. It was (is?) the southern boundary of the Verde Wild and Scenic river designation, thereby excluding mechanized access north of Red Creek.

By the way, I wasn't suggesting CSC was doing anything wrong. What struck me was the pic of the Bronco...

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Phil, I was wrong with the north bank of Red Creek being a wilderness boundary. It was (is?) the southern boundary of the Verde Wild and Scenic river designation, thereby excluding mechanized access north of Red Creek.

By the way, I wasn't suggesting CSC was doing anything wrong. What struck me was the pic of the Bronco...

You are also right depending on the map you are viewing

 

[re_guderian]

Looks like fun, and entertaining thanks to the Jeepers!

Here's a link I use for FS maps, which seem to be the most updated I can find. Where Red Creek meets the Verde (the Wet Bottom Mesa quandrangle) has boundaries updated in 2006. Gonna be hard to get more current than that in my experience of government maps... This map agrees with the wilderness.net topo overlay that Phil posted.

GSTC Clearinghouse > States & Territories - click on a state, forest, and quadrangle, then download and unzip the .tif file. WAY more updated roads/trails from these NF maps than on the USGS topos, or even some of the commercial map packages.

 

[medtro]

Jeep friends don't last and now we can all see why.

Hmm! I have met 2 of them at your place. Are they still around?