Rebuilt 2F Headaches (1 Viewer)

[rlocke49]

Hey Folks,

I am sure this has happened to others, but I recently got my old 2f rebuilt at a machine shop. While it was out, I was able to rebuild the t-case and install a rebuilt 4-speed I put together last winter. Got the engine installed and working on running-in the cam and noticed a pretty substantial oil leak. Unfortunately for me, the Timing Cover wasn't sealed correctly from the machine shop. I am now looking at taking things back apart to hopefully diagnose and repair the issue myself- or taking the engine back to the shop (5+ hours of driving). I have read that the cam gear oiler can cause an issue with the cover to seal if it was threaded in too deep, pushing the cam plate out. I also verified that the correct length bolts were installed around the timing cover per the FSM. Have you guys seen this issue before? and if so any tips for getting things back on the road?

Cheers!

 

[OSS]

@NeverGiveUpYota

 

[Gretsch]

Where is the oil coming from? Just the cork seal around the timing cover or the crank seal or both or elsewhere? The timing cover seal setup is kinda tricky in the way its done if the FSM is followed to a T. You put the cover and gasket on around the crank, and put the bolts for it in finger tight only. Then you put the HB on the crank and let the HB slide the cover in its final centered position on the motor. The HB snout moves the cover into its proper position when its installed. Once done you then torque down the timing cover bolts. If the TC bolts were torqued down before the HB was installed, it can cause the TC to warp in a way that can cause leaks if its not centered properly. The oiler can be threaded in too deep as well as you mention to cause leaks from behind the plate. HTH.

Edit: The two lower large bolts on the TC need sealer applied to them when installed. I believe those bolts thread directly into the main front bearing cap and provide a direct path for oil to leak if not sealed properly.

Timing cover install from FSM:

 

[BlackCat]

Yep, all of those things above. I just did the timing plate gasket on mine. The oil jet can be threaded in too far very easily. It needs to be left somewhat loose and staked into place. If not, it will push the plate off the block and leak oil.

 

[rlocke49]

Thanks All!
Looks like the leak is coming from higher up on the drivers side of the TC and running down that side. You can see where the cam plate is lifted away from the block, I am assuming its an oiler issue? not sure why that plate would be bent, even less sure why the machine shop would reinstall a bent plate....

 

[OSS]

I'll bet the cover was pryed off in that location which bent the lip. And the guy bolting it back up wasn't paying attention

 

[3_puppies]

I'll bet the cover was pryed off in that location which bent the lip. And the guy bolting it back up wasn't paying attention

X2 or they didn't pay attention to the location of where the bolts go and they installed them in the wrong place

is that just the cover or the backing plate?

 

[rlocke49]

X2 or they didn't pay attention to the location of where the bolts go and they installed them in the wrong place

is that just the cover or the backing plate?

That's the backing plate. it seems like it may be bent, no issue that I can see with the crank gear oiler. Any idea why the back plate would be bent?

 

[2mbb]

from your picture it looks like the backing plate has pulled away all the way to the upper bolt. This suggests that bolt is not tight or it is the wrong length. Look at the manual page that Gretsch posted. There are different length bolts and they need to go into the correct locations.

 

[Gretsch]

they didn't pay attention to the location of where the bolts go and they installed them in the wrong place

This is quite possible. Just seems to be all centered around incorrect install of the TC/HB to me. FSM has a map of where each bolt length goes so that you could figure out if that's the case. Or take it back to shop, hand them FSM, and have them sort it out. Seen others on here get these TC's warped due to not following directions. Looked the same as yours. Leaked the same as yours. Having the TC tightened down when putting HB on can cause the TC to bend and warp in way its not supposed to like your picture shows.

The bolts for the TC need to go back from where they came as they are varying lengths to have their ends clear the engine block as they go through the front plate. If long ones are installed where short ones go, their ends will contact the engine block behind the plate. Will feel tight and torqued but won't clamp down on the TC to seal it properly.

I always understood the oiler issue as causing leaks from behind the front plate if not done right. Lifts the front plate away from block if screwed in too far, thus not allowing the gasket to seal properly. Someone can set me straight here if needed. Seems your leak OP is strictly from the TC itself. HTH.

 

[3_puppies]

if the rear plate needs to come back off, which it should, the cam needs to be removed. it is a large job

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, Let the shop fix it. Mike

 

[NMfjCruiser]

Would you share the shops name privately? I thought about using a local shop for a rebuild......

 

[tmxmotorsports]

if the rear plate needs to come back off, which it should, the cam needs to be removed. it is a large job

X2 not a small job at all

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Thanks All!
Looks like the leak is coming from higher up on the drivers side of the TC and running down that side. You can see where the cam plate is lifted away from the block, I am assuming its an oiler issue? not sure why that plate would be bent, even less sure why the machine shop would reinstall a bent plate....View attachment 2692274

Like @OSS said. Plate is prob bent a smidge there. Mines leaking at the same spot. Prob bent by me. You can do the job in your driveway but it requires jacking the engine up, pulling the cam and redoing the gasket and sealer. I’ve done it in my drive once before because I have a cam bearing walk. Second time I installed the cam was a full rebuild by me. Like an ass I guess I didn’t check the flatness of the plate. The oiler “could” be stewed in too far but I doubt that’s it if your leaking g higher up. I can watch mine drool while it runs from that exact spot. It blows donkey farts.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

X2 not a small job at all

Hey... I’m 5’5” and 130lbs. I got it done insitu in my driveway. It CAN be done. But if a shop did it... I might want to hold them to it... idk. Depends on your wallet, time and your level of trust.
Just remember the woodworking saying ‘measure twice cut once.’ Pay attention, go slow and you can do it. Obviously a shop screwed up. We do too at times... that’s how many of us learn.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

from your picture it looks like the backing plate has pulled away all the way to the upper bolt. This suggests that bolt is not tight or it is the wrong length. Look at the manual page that Gretsch posted. There are different length bolts and they need to go into the correct locations.

All the bolts could be pulled to check they are in the correct place. Just pull a few at a time and reinstall. Do it w/ the nose up in the driveway.

 

[rlocke49]

Thanks for everything guys! I tried everything under the sun to stop that plate from leaking, no luck. I even cleaned everything up and threw a Hail Mary with form in place gasket. Slowed the leak down at least.... luckily the shop is standing behind their work and we came to an agreement to make it right. Only downside is I get to pull the engine again, and am without a land cruiser for another couple weeks. Even good shops make mistakes! Just find one that will stand behind their work when things don’t work out.

 

[Gretsch]

I looked again at your photo today of where the gap is OP. I somehow missed that before but looking at it again its obvious the plate seems messed up. Glad the shop is handling this but too bad it comes at the expense of you pulling the motor for them to do it. Hope it works out.

 

[BlackCat]

Thanks for everything guys! I tried everything under the sun to stop that plate from leaking, no luck. I even cleaned everything up and threw a Hail Mary with form in place gasket. Slowed the leak down at least.... luckily the shop is standing behind their work and we came to an agreement to make it right. Only downside is I get to pull the engine again, and am without a land cruiser for another couple weeks. Even good shops make mistakes! Just find one that will stand behind their work when things don’t work out.

Why don’t you just bring them the truck? I just finished doing mine in the garage with the motor in place. And FWIW, that’s the exact spot mine was leaking from. I would definitely try and pull the front cover bolts out and make sure they’re in the correct locations. It could be as simple as moving the bolts around to get it to stop leaking.