rebuild or replace 22re?: specs inside

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quick update/ question

ok, thought it would be nice to revive some of the old tired engine parts with a face lift,
so i brought some of the cast steel parts to work to day to our machine shop to bead blast and paint up while I wait on parts to be delivered for the engine machine shop. (i.e. power steering brackets, lower engine mount brackets, exhaust manifold etc..)

went ahead and bead blasted the exhaust manifold. cleaned up real nice. i did notice after cleaning it that there was a small weld hole where someone has fixed a pinhole leak before. looks pretty solid. so im not worried about that.

what i am worried about is that it appears to be a little warped according to the FSM standards (less than .028").

my question is , have any of you run into this in your rebuilds, or do any of you even think to check this?

second question, is it worth getting it machined, or can i get an oversized gasket to take up the slack? or should i look into spending more dough on a header?

thanks
b
 
I've never seen an option as far as the gasket goes. A new stock manifold runs about 60.00, but it's China made. I've sold a few of those, and they are a good looking manifold. I'm currently considering one for my truck if my manifold don't check within specs. Compared to the cost of a header it may be worth it.
 
checked toyotapartszone. a new oem one is about 165 if i remember correctly. still much cheaper than LC engineerings price for a header. plus all the crap you have to get to bolt it to a stock exhaust system. and it doesnt have ports for egr from what i can see either.

where is the $60 one from?
 
they are selling it here for $72. which isnt that bad. what kind of quality is ATM? ive never heard of them. is it some cheap junk thats going to warp up on me or what?
 
From what I understand ATM was a company that sourced and supplied OEM equivilent parts for foriegn cars. NAPA bought them out so they could have that part of the market. Their parts are sourced from everywhere, so you have to be carefull when you order thru this line.

For instance, I'm rebuilding my 22re, I ordered a set of rings thru the ATM line and they are NPR rings. I ordered a set of head bolts and they are made in Taiwan. All of the bearings (wheel bearings etc) are Koyo. Some gaskets are Nippon, and some are China made.

Basically I wouldn't rely on the countermans word. There is a tech service number that I call when I want to know if a part is going to be made in china, or in Japan. That way I know what to order.

Oh, as far as the wheel bearings go, they are priced really good.
 
huh. definitely sounds like i should be careful.
do you have the number i can call and find out who makes this thing?
thanks
bryan

edit- looked at previous posts and saw that you mentioned the manifold was made in china. pretty sure on that or should i call?
 
next update

got the call from my machine shop today. everything will be ready for pickup this afternoon probably. just have to see if I can get out there in time to get it.

good news is that the estimate was a little high. We initially figured in extra cash for line boring and assembly. but line boring was not necessary. and i am going to put this thing together (mainly because I dont trust anyone but myself.)
so total machining was about 550 instead of 880.
 
Ring gap quandry

ok. i am having problems finding out what my ring gap should be so i can gring these things to fit.
here are the hyper-eutectic pistons i got from lc engineering.
http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebG...UniqueID=86F35805-1AE0-4850-8578-9464DE740879

i got the upgraded total seal rings with it, as mentioned previously, which are grind to fit come to find out. which is totally fine, i just didnt know that.

so i asked lc engineering what the ring gap should be. they say follow the instructions in the total seal ring box. ok....so in the ring box there is an install sheet and they outline all of the steps for putting it together and how to gap them and the formulas for figuring out gap and what not.

but it clearly states, for hyper-eutectic pistons follow the piston manufacturers reccomendation.

well...... there was nothing in my piston box from lc. i tried to find a number to call for safety auto parts (the name on the side of the piston box from LC) but it was to no avail.
Safety Auto Parts Corp. - Safety Pistons
no phone number. nothing to click on. nothing.

so i am at a loss here. this will make or break my engine.
to small ring gap will cause cylinder wall scoring and a waste of 2 grand.
to big of a ring gap and I will have blow by like a mutha.
this needs to be correct. anyone have any ideas on what it needs to be? I am going to try and call LC engineering again monday, but any clues in the mean time?

Thanks
B
 
well, i have found an online catalog that looks to provide some specs from safety auto. but i cannot seem to find my pistons in the drop down menu
SP526D
found infor for sp526T which i guess is for the turbo model. not what i want
Safety WebCatalog
 
2nd gen fan,
the fsm gap would be fore the cast toyota pistons. I am using hyper-eutectic pistons, so I dont think that will work anymore.

See, with a cast piston, the amount of thermal expansion is different than with the hyper-eutectics. that was one of the reasons for their development. They do not change as much with heat, therefore allowing you to run tighter ring gaps and cylinder wall clearences, which will allow you to make more horse power.

So i fear if i use the stock piston ring gap measurement from the fsm then i will have to much blow by as it was designed for excess expansion inherent in cast pistons.

anyone have any experience with hyper-eutectics? or shall i wait for LC engineering to open up on monday?
 
I thought we were talking ring end gap... If you mean ring groove clearance....

Standard ring groove clearance: 0.03 – 0.07 mm
(0.0012 – 0.0028 in.)
Maximum ring groove clearance: 0.2 mm (0.008 in.)

Yes, those are for the stock pistons... however, you are saying that your fancy pistons don't expand as much as a stock one, so as long as you have a close to stock gap you should be fine, because it won't be opening up as the piston heats up....
 
2nd gen fan,
yes. my fault. my wording was misleading. i am talking of ring end gap. and your fsm specs are correct.

but you think the factory ring end gap is sufficient even though i do not have factory cast pisstons?
I might be thinking about this wrong (let me know if you agree/ disagree)
but best as I can reason, there are two things happening here. As the cylinder heats up the piston will expand some amount, so will the cylinder wall, but different amounts as they are different materials.

simultaneously, the ring will lengthen with heat, which translates to tighter ring end gap.

ideally, you would want the piston ring to collapse exactly together and seal the gap between the piston and the cyldiner wall when heated as well as the gases from the top of the piston down the sides.

Am I overthinking this, does the piston material not play a role in this?
I guess my question is it possible for the ring gap to close and seal around the circumference of the cylinder wall, but still be "lose" around the piston cause it did not expand as much as the cast pistons? or does it not matter?
 
I don't think the piston expanding does anything to "push" the ring out against the cylinder wall. I would think the up side of a piston that doesn't expand would be the gap between the ring and the piston not opening up to allow blow-by to get around the ring. The ring it's self, if of a "stock" material should have a stock end gap.

That's what I'm thinking anyway. :cheers:
 
I am going to try and contact the piston manufacturer today, so either way I should be able to start assembling this thing soon. Thanks for the help.
 
A quick update and question:

i got the rings filed to the proper gaps as per the piston manufacturer and ring manufacturer. and they are close to what the factory reccomendation was, so i feel confident. except for the second ring. i consulted ted at engnbldr and he informed me that the second ring end gap is a misprint in our fsm. so that also made me feel better when my second ring gap wasnt close to factory spec.

anyways, got the rings on the pistons. got the pistons on the rods. Then i put the crank in and got it torqued down. used plastigauge to check the machine shops work on the crank journal clearence. got it right on the money with .0015" oil clearence. Thrust bearings are good too. right at .0065" play.

so then i put the crank in a second time, this time with assembly lube, and torqued it all down. good to go. on to the next thing.

I am trying to stick these pistons in the cylinders but I am having trouble. i think my oil ring expander is not allowing the oil rings to compress enough to get in the cylinder. the reason i say this is casue i can put only the expander ring on the piston and it will go in. I can put only the oil rings on the piston and it will go in. but when i put the two oil rings with the expander inbetween i cant get it to go down.

is it possible that i need to file my expander ring? i thought that those were not to be messed with. only the upper and lower oil rings right? has anyone had to do this? want to get some input before i screw something up. if so, how do you go about doing it, the same way as a regular ring?

Thanks
b
 
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