rear starter bolt ain’t moving (and front is a bitch too) (1 Viewer)

[landcruiser3DP]

george,
this is a miserable piece of s*** and should go out with the trash yes? or is there anything worth saving in this thing? if it is not denso i am not rebuilding it.
ALSO. could you remove the carrier bolts and take part of it off if you wanted more room during removal?

 

[george_tlc]

Go Denso or don't go home (actually get stranded)

Yep, front bolt is easy to get out with an impact. And yeah, always use 6 point sockets.

cheers,
george.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Go Denso or don't go home (actually get stranded)

Yep, front bolt is easy to get out with an impact. And yeah, always use 6 point sockets.

cheers,
george.

i guess i have to get a set of wobble sockets. or is that an adapter? anyway unfortunately i don’t have any pneumatic auto tools even though i do have a good compressor.
so that starter i pulled is not a denso i guess? or how do i tell? and do i do anything with this one?

 

[Eyedaho]

i guess i have to get a set of wobble sockets. or is that an adapter? anyway unfortunately i don’t have any pneumatic auto tools even though i do have a good compressor.
so that starter i pulled is not a denso i guess? or how do i tell? and do i do anything with this one?

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That looks like an AC Delco 800 number. Re: the wobble sockets, you can either buy a whole set of wobble sockets or a specific size when you're stuck on something, or buy a 3/8 and 1/2 drive wobble joint/adapter. It's the same thing as your classic universal joint only it's a pinless design that's similar to a CV joint, so it doesn't bind up the same way the pinned ones do. It's more expensive to buy a whole set of sockets with that joint built into them, and I've only encountered a couple of instances where there wasn't enough clearance to fit a socket with a wobble joint stuck into it (just like your universal joint). I think the wobble adapters usually go from one size to another with a wobble joint in the middle. Hence the "adapter" in the name, since they're adapting 3/8 to 1/2 or whatever. Vs the wobble joint is the same size on both ends, i.e. 3/8 to 3/8.

Like this kinda guy: Husky 1/2 in. Drive Impact U-Joint-H2DIMPUNIV - The Home Depot

 

[landcruiser3DP]

That looks like an AC Delco 800 number. Re: the wobble sockets, you can either buy a whole set of wobble sockets or a specific size when you're stuck on something, or buy a 3/8 and 1/2 drive wobble joint/adapter. It's the same thing as your classic universal joint only it's a pinless design that's similar to a CV joint, so it doesn't bind up the same way the pinned ones do. It's more expensive to buy a whole set of sockets with that joint built into them, and I've only encountered a couple of instances where there wasn't enough clearance to fit a socket with a wobble joint stuck into it (just like your universal joint). I think the wobble adapters usually go from one size to another with a wobble joint in the middle. Hence the "adapter" in the name, since they're adapting 3/8 to 1/2 or whatever. Vs the wobble joint is the same size on both ends, i.e. 3/8 to 3/8.

Like this kinda guy: Husky 1/2 in. Drive Impact U-Joint-H2DIMPUNIV - The Home Depot

so on the AC delco would someone buy it and rebuild it? or is there value or can i salvage anything from it?
and the swivels. are you saying they are size specific? so i would have to buy a 17mm swivel? or do i buy a 3/8 swivel and a 1/2” swivel and put a socket on it?

 

[landcruiser3DP]

by the way, re-reading here and TONS of good help on this one. so THANKS to everyone for the pro level assists.

 

[Broski]

JMHO on the sockets 12 points are fine as long as your do it by hand, if your going to use a impact go with 6 points for sure.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

JMHO on the sockets 12 points are fine as long as your do it by hand, if your going to use a impact go with 6 points for sure.

THANKS. i was going to ask about that but i have a lot of questions here obviously.
i never did get a handle on six point vs twelve point. is there a good way for me to think about this?
the main problem i had here (probably solved in the future with a full set of wobble sockets) is that the knuckle/swivel has a lot of slop in it. so by the time you get a breaker bar over a bolt head you have no room (sometimes in this case as little as an inch clear and ALL of that inch is taken up by the slop in a knuckle/swivel) to move the bar. and this is really totally dependent upon the rotation of the bolt head really as to how much room you have.
so at least in the case of a - well i can’t really think about this clearly.
will a 12 point socket let me get a slight (like a 1/12th instead of a 1/6th?!) more of a finely tuned rotation for a breaker bar?
and what are the other considerations 6 point versus 12 point please?

 

[wapitimud]

I'd hate to say you're doing it all wrong. The cheap Husky Pinned UJ probably isn't worth buying, its a hard use part. I didn't see an awful lot of black impact sockets and adapters, and your makita impact is too small. I prefer to use 1/2" Milwaukee M18 high impact, compact Milwaukee M12 1/2", Milwaukee M12 right angle impact. Air tools can do the job too, with a bit less jam.

I only buy Williams USA, Mac, Gray Pneumatic tools for impacts, impact UJ.

Corded 1/2" impacts are cheap if you can fit them. I use my 3/4 breaker bar and sockets whenever possible, a bit too big for this job.

 

[Wrencher93]

THANKS. i was going to ask about that but i have a lot of questions here obviously.
i never did get a handle on six point vs twelve point. is there a good way for me to think about this?
the main problem i had here (probably solved in the future with a full set of wobble sockets) is that the knuckle/swivel has a lot of slop in it. so by the time you get a breaker bar over a bolt head you have no room (sometimes in this case as little as an inch clear and ALL of that inch is taken up by the slop in a knuckle/swivel) to move the bar. and this is really totally dependent upon the rotation of the bolt head really as to how much room you have.
so at least in the case of a - well i can’t really think about this clearly.
will a 12 point socket let me get a slight (like a 1/12th instead of a 1/6th?!) more of a finely tuned rotation for a breaker bar?
and what are the other considerations 6 point versus 12 point please?

A 6 point socket engages the flat surfaces of the nut or bolt head. This allows the transference of more torque before being in danger of rounding the head of the bolt. The advantage of a 12 point (or any other multiple) socket is that it gives you a finer range of ratchet movement before it will slip on to the fastener (easier to get it on the bolt or nut in tight spaces). The trade off is that a 12 point engages the corners of the bolt head or nut and will be more prone to sliding or rounding the head off.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I'd hate to say you're doing it all wrong. The cheap Husky Pinned UJ probably isn't worth buying, its a hard use part. I didn't see an awful lot of black impact sockets and adapters, and your makita impact is too small. I prefer to use 1/2" Milwaukee M18 high impact, compact Milwaukee M12 1/2", Milwaukee M12 right angle impact. Air tools can do the job too, with a bit less jam.

I only buy Williams USA, Mac, Gray Pneumatic tools for impacts, impact UJ.

Corded 1/2" impacts are cheap if you can fit them. I use my 3/4 breaker bar and sockets whenever possible, a bit too big for this job.

i think there were multiple issues on this situation.

the threaded bolt for the starter may be a bit tall on the AC delco. so i was never able to get good purchased on the bolt head with a socket and a knuckle because the threaded stud got in the way. meaning i was not really able to get anything from the bolt out you the impact driver to give it anything.

but maybe if i cut down the socket and used a shortie socket and i had a pneumatic driver or a larger torque battery powered driver it might work?

it would be interesting to see shots of how to get this bolt off if it is stuck if anyone comes along later. i found it to be a real mother.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

A 6 point socket engages the flat surfaces of the nut or bolt head. This allows the transference of more torque before being in danger of rounding the head of the bolt. The advantage of a 12 point (or any other multiple) socket is that it gives you a finer range of ratchet movement before it will slip on to the fastener (easier to get it on the bolt or nut in tight spaces). The trade off is that a 12 point engages the corners of the bolt head or nut and will be more prone to sliding or rounding the head off.

yeah. so in the case of getting a breaker bar into a very tight situation you would be well off to have a set of 12 point sockets on hand because you can rotate the angle you get on the bolt head by 30 degrees with a 12 point where a six point you have to rotate the bar 60 degrees basically.
with the caveat that 12 point could shear the corners on a bolt if you don’t keep it hard up against the bolt head?

 

[Wrencher93]

I know each 80 is a little different and the environment each one lives in can and does affect the difficulty of working on that particular vehicle. I have been lucky with mine so far in that nothing has proved seriously difficult to remove. One thing I have done and do not regret is the use of fluid film on the undercarriage. It has slowed/prevented the spread of rust and it seems to make fasteners easier to remove when the time comes. It hasn't caused any undue looseness - just seems to lubricate everything and "grease the skids" so to speak.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Good thing dielectric grease is non-conducting or you'd short this thing in no time.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I'd hate to say you're doing it all wrong. The cheap Husky Pinned UJ probably isn't worth buying, its a hard use part. I didn't see an awful lot of black impact sockets and adapters, and your makita impact is too small. I prefer to use 1/2" Milwaukee M18 high impact, compact Milwaukee M12 1/2", Milwaukee M12 right angle impact. Air tools can do the job too, with a bit less jam.

I only buy Williams USA, Mac, Gray Pneumatic tools for impacts, impact UJ.

Corded 1/2" impacts are cheap if you can fit them. I use my 3/4 breaker bar and sockets whenever possible, a bit too big for this job.

milwaukee 3/8” right angle impact. i guess this is battery powered? M12 FUEL 3/8" Right Angle Impact Wrench | Milwaukee Tool

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I'd hate to say you're doing it all wrong. The cheap Husky Pinned UJ probably isn't worth buying, its a hard use part. I didn't see an awful lot of black impact sockets and adapters, and your makita impact is too small. I prefer to use 1/2" Milwaukee M18 high impact, compact Milwaukee M12 1/2", Milwaukee M12 right angle impact. Air tools can do the job too, with a bit less jam.

I only buy Williams USA, Mac, Gray Pneumatic tools for impacts, impact UJ.

Corded 1/2" impacts are cheap if you can fit them. I use my 3/4 breaker bar and sockets whenever possible, a bit too big for this job.

hey man. not to beat this into the ground but i am always happy to lean on more experienced wrenches for advice.
am i correct in thinking that if i wanted to pick up a used corded impact driver that as long as i can get the socket over the bolt and get a knuckle/swivel (or two) out of the immediate area and over to a corded impact driver the additional torque from a corded driver may be very helpful?
i do have my eyes out for a good used pneumatic impact driver but that requires hailing a air compressor out of storage...

 

[bajaphile]

Pull apart the solenoid and see what the contacts and plunger look like (copper parts). They might just need to be replaced. Then you'd have a good backup spare if needed.

As far as the wobbles, this is what I use. You can see they only offer a few degrees of freedom, but they help in tight places. These versions are an acceptable tool for aircraft maintenance (well, we use Snap On versions).

 

[Howard705]

Go Denso or don't go home (actually get stranded)

Yep, front bolt is easy to get out with an impact. And yeah, always use 6 point sockets.

cheers,
george.

and NOT a 1/4" electric "impact" with an adapter on it.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Pull apart the solenoid and see what the contacts and plunger look like (copper parts). They might just need to be replaced. Then you'd have a good backup spare if needed.

As far as the wobbles, this is what I use. You can see they only offer a few degrees of freedom, but they help in tight places. These versions are an acceptable tool for aircraft maintenance (well, we use Snap On versions).

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oh. very nice. thanks for all that.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

and NOT a 1/4" electric "impact" with an adapter on it.

so what do you propose to use to get over the head of that bolt and over the threaded stud and out the well?
how do you propose getting a socket over that bolt and past the threaded stud and out to a tool i think is the question. i guess i’m missing that.
i mean the baby makita actually works perfect for this. fugly but it works.
i can see cutting down a socket to try to get more room. i can see knocking down that threaded stud and destroying it. also a wobble socket but short of those three i’d be surprised if anyone could get anything - forget a breaker bar - out this location at least on mine.