rear main seal thoughts. (1 Viewer)

[jerryb]

I replaced it and the front seals a few days ago.
I've always had drips from the window looking at the flexplate. Not bad drips, but drips, and they were getting worse.
Also I had some leak at the front. From either the timing belt tensioner pulley bolt, the front main seal, or low oil pan. (not dipstick penetrator)

And this is why I'm posting it.
There is an oring behind the front oil pump plate and the rear main seal retainer. They are the same part number. I do believe my rear drip issue was from this o ring. I don't really know where my front leak was coming from but both these o rings were very hard and came out in chunks. I'm sure both were original. These are outside of the fipg seal area.

You can see it in the pics.
If you're replacing the front or rear seals, it would be a very good idea to replace these also. I'm my case I doubt either front or rear main seals were bad.
but- here's something weird, two of my flexplate bolts were very wet with oil, the other six were dry. In my mind, it would be very hard to just replace the rear main without taking the retainer off also and getting at the O ring. I do think you could do it with the tranny out and engine in place but it would be very awkward to clean it down on the floor and also verify that your sealing surface with the upper oil pan was spotless. Doing it that way isn't the book method but I imagine it's possible.

The mission creep is real, and dangerous. Oh, and if partsouq is selling fake parts, I'm totally F-ed. I think my toyota budget is blown for the year.

 

[abuck99]

I was wondering why you pulled the motor- was it for the leaks?

Did anything come of the torque converter?

 

[FxFormat]

I'm at 220K miles and haven't found any leaks yet, I always look for stuff to repair/replace but haven't had any luck. What mileage is your cruiser?

 

[OwnerCS]

I have a small leak back at the rear. I was hoping this could be corrected by pulling the transmission. I could outsource pulling the transmission. The engine I could pull at my house. Though I wouldn't want the downtime associated with me doing it.

 

[jerryb]

it has 231k miles.
rear drip has been going on for... i guess 5 years, since I bought it.
ONly lately has something happened in the front. So it was time, and I only have a another week off. Wife doesn't like driving it anymore she's just too paranoid she will break something.
I'm looking for another car. We just got rid of the benz (mistake) late last year.

I just started it today, everything seems ok. So far.. still nervous though.

 

[Seth7843]

Partsouq is selling counterfeit parts?! uh oh.

 

[jerryb]

I want everyone to stop buying from there so I can have them to myself.

 

[ibrahim83]

I'm currently doing the rear main seal, i unscrewed the plate covering the oil o-ring, but it isn't moving, is it RTV'd in place? and can i remove it with the oil pans still in place?

 

[jerryb]

There's two verticle bolts coming in from the bottom.

 

[jerryb]

you probably found it but here's a pic.
Yes you could without removing both pans. Maybe it would be fine for years and maybe it won't.

It never dawned on me that to do it correctly both oil pans should come off first. I should have taken the flywheel off first before mounting it. Then I probably would have realized it.
I did that last, after the pans were on. But I cleaned it for hours with tiny toothpicks and q tips and good bit of cleaner, degreaser, alcohol, etc.
Procedurally, it was the only mistake that I know of. (with engine out) I don't know what shops do without taking the engine out.

I'm leak free 3k miles since then.

 

[abuck99]

you probably found it but here's a pic.
Yes you could without removing both pans. Maybe it would be fine for years and maybe it won't.

It never dawned on me that to do it correctly both oil pans should come off first. I should have taken the flywheel off first before mounting it. Then I probably would have realized it.
I did that last, after the pans were on. But I cleaned it for hours with tiny toothpicks and q tips and good bit of cleaner, degreaser, alcohol, etc.
Procedurally, it was the only mistake that I know of. (with engine out) I don't know what shops do without taking the engine out.

Jerry

Been following with interest to absorb your work here in the event I ever have to do this job, but I’m trying to decode this post (orange color font above) the sequence of procedure you're describing, and what youre actually articulating here- you’re saying the “it” (retainer plate?) comes off after removing both oil pans, ..... taken the flywheel off first before mounting “it” (?) cleaned what for hours? Procedurally what mistake did you make? Sorry to ask you to spell it out in more detail but my mechanical Jedi vision isn’t working very well today.

 

[ibrahim83]

you probably found it but here's a pic.
Yes you could without removing both pans. Maybe it would be fine for years and maybe it won't.

It never dawned on me that to do it correctly both oil pans should come off first. I should have taken the flywheel off first before mounting it. Then I probably would have realized it.
I did that last, after the pans were on. But I cleaned it for hours with tiny toothpicks and q tips and good bit of cleaner, degreaser, alcohol, etc.
Procedurally, it was the only mistake that I know of. (with engine out) I don't know what shops do without taking the engine out.

I'm leak free 3k miles since then.

View attachment 2648721

I got the bottom bolts, as I was lightly prying on it I realized it shared the same rtv as the upper oil pan and didn't want to rip it out and bandaid seal the area.

So the whole "face" of this piece of metal has rtv running between the mounting bolts on the vertical and horizontal surface?

If we assume the o ring up there leaks, wouldn't it leak back into the pan vs out the seal?

 

[ibrahim83]

you probably found it but here's a pic.
Yes you could without removing both pans. Maybe it would be fine for years and maybe it won't.

It never dawned on me that to do it correctly both oil pans should come off first. I should have taken the flywheel off first before mounting it. Then I probably would have realized it.
I did that last, after the pans were on. But I cleaned it for hours with tiny toothpicks and q tips and good bit of cleaner, degreaser, alcohol, etc.
Procedurally, it was the only mistake that I know of. (with engine out) I don't know what shops do without taking the engine out.

I'm leak free 3k miles since then.

View attachment 2648721

I got the bottom bolts, as I was lightly prying on it I realized it shared the same rtv as the upper oil pan and didn't want to rip it out and bandaid seal the area.

So the whole "face" of this piece of metal has rtv running between the mounting bolts on the vertical and horizontal surface?

If we assume the o ring up there leaks, wouldn't it leak back into the pan vs out the rear main seal?

 

[jerryb]

look in the book at the retainer 103b sealing surface around the top oring. Follow the trail of oil if it leaked up and over that or to the side, it would travel to the lower left and right nooks and crannies of the iron.

 

[ibrahim83]

look in the book at the retainer 103b sealing surface around the top oring. Follow the trail of oil if it leaked up and over that or to the side, it would travel to the lower left and right nooks and crannies of the iron.

Follow up question, if I were to attempt to remove and reseal the upper oil pan, does having the trans it enable me to unbolt it and slide it back and out?

The truck is on the lift right now but must get down before tomorrow starts. So I'm debating my options.

Quick note to anyone removing the trans and spending a small fortune buying exhaust hardware, you can remove the trans without touching the exhaust system.

 

[jerryb]

with this pic you can 100% that I fixed the rear plate after the upper pan had been installed.
I did not want to redo upper and lower pan again to make the upper oil pan sealing surface 100% with no interuptions.

 

[jerryb]

I promise, rear main without the oring is equal to a 2500$ bet on red.
I would bet 2500$ on my own rear main that the o ring was leaking and the real main seal itself was not.

 

[ibrahim83]

Screw it, I'm going to do what you did and replace the seal, o ring, and fpig the metal plate.

If it ever leaks again I'll pull both oil pans and do them.

 

[jerryb]

my lower pan may or may not have been leaking. Really I think it was the o rings and slight maybe on the timing belt tensioner pully bolt.

@abuck99 . I know I'm too fast and not complete. The rear main is part of the 100% sealing surface of the upper oil pan.
doing the rear seal independently without removing the upper pan is not the book way of doing it. but It's possible.
I di it by accident and going too fast. Honestly it was the last thing I did, because I didn't take it off the stand until the end to get the flexplate off and realize my mistake. It's an easy mistake to make. Unless you've done this block before. (I assume it is)

I wrongly thought it was an independent R&R. You can see in the picture the absence of 103b on the edges. IF it leaks there I'll know.

 

[2001LC]

Nice reseal job Jerry!

@ibrahim83 As I recall the pan can be resealed without pull rear seal plate. (see Unicorn) So seal plate can be pulled and resealed, without removing pan. But very likely you've the oil pump o-ring leaking also. You'd need to pull pans to get at the front (oil pump) o-ring.. Issue you'll have pulling pan engine in. Is keeping oil off FIPG seal area during assemble. If not kept dry and clean, FIPG will likely leak.

My bet, the 2UZ leak, because HM oil was used. Especial if O-rings damage.

I'm helping with an 07 VVT w/200K now. That HM (high mileage oil) was used in. Seems every o-ring is weeping. W'e re trying Mobil 1 oil along AT-205, to clean and recondition seals. I've hopes it will slow leaks to manageable level. We should know by this summer. .