Rear Axle Questions/Issue (1 Viewer)

[BTLSHP]

1994 Series 80 with 235k miles.

I started on the rear axle today and ran into a couple of issues before too long. The first is I cannot for the life of me get the rotor off the hub. Reading through various threads others seem not to have this issue or simply refer to the star adjuster. I found the star adjuster on each side but can't budge it with a screw driver. Next I tried two M8x1.25 bolts, I am guessing mine are too short at 25 mm as they bottom out and the rotor is still firmly on.

Longer bolts? What am I going to damage this way? (on of the bolts I use is in the top photo to the right of the axle).

Next, I find the front hubs hav been done every 30k miles like clock work. No reference to the rears and I am guessing I hav 85-90% of the service records.

When I freed the shafts, I found they had been running in diff oil for some period and the seal prevented an external leaks. Here is what the axle ends look like:

Both have a clear bright line in the metal, the top (Pax) will slightly catch a thumbnail. Th Driver's side will not, on both sides to my thumbnail the lie marks a transition from a rougher outboard surface to a seemingly polished inner surface.

Is this going to be an issue with the new seal?

I was planning to use the condition of the races as my guide to keeping or replacing the bearings. I bought one new set expecting to reuse one pair. Should I go ahead and replace these? I do not think buying a second set for the front will break the bank long term.

Finally, am I assuming there is grease in the diff oil and replacing it? The diffs were done a year ago, but what dripped out looks like a fine blend of grease and oil.

Many thanks,

 

[baldilocks]

I’ll speak only to your rear axle here. You can drive the axle oil seal a bit deep at in the spindle so the sealing lip will ride on new spot. I don’t think the wear mark on your shafts warrants any such effort but it certainly won’t hurt. Some members, just a few, leave or have left those oil seals out and let gear oil lube the rear wheel bearings. This is a common practice with other OEM’s and works very well. I’m sure you noticed how nice the bearing bathed in gear oil looked. For about five years I had one rear side running in only gear oil and when I took the hub off the bearings looked new while the side running only grease did not.

As far as removing stubborn rotors; perhaps apply liberal amounts of a penetrant and come back later. A little banging with a hammer could help to free it up.

Sometimes we just have to get mid evil on old parts….. try removing hub and rotor as a single unit. That rotor may have to be sacrificed.

 

[NelsonCruiser]

What level of rust does your truck have on the underside? Does the rotor turn freely? If the handbrake is misadjusted it can make removing the rotors difficult to remove however, you would have likely noticed a noise while driving if this was the case. Make sure there is no tension on the handbrake cable and beat the the rotor with an hammer or mallet from all Sides and it should break loose.

 

[BTLSHP]

I do not know how to gauge the rust. People around here (DC area, think it is rust free), Elsewhere? There is only on spot of body rust on an front inner fender panel which will be addressed when we do the interior.

I have released the hand brake, is there another place to release tension? My father (the owner) always likes the e-brake over tight IMHO and I can easily see the mechanic to something silly to appease him.

The rotor/hub spins but there is a modest scraping noise each revolution.

FWIW- The car is being "baselined" for my daughter to take command.

It has been cleaned up, but here is what the rear underside looked like in the beginning of this process:

 

[NelsonCruiser]

I do not know how to gauge the rust. People around here (DC area, think it is rust free), Elsewhere? There is only on spot of body rust on an front inner fender panel which will be addressed when we do the interior.

I have released the hand brake, is there another place to release tension? My father (the owner) always likes the e-brake over tight IMHO and I can easily see the mechanic to something silly to appease him.

The rotor/hub spins but there is a modest scraping noise each revolution.

FWIW- The car is being "baselined" for my daughter to take command.

It has been cleaned up, but here is what the rear underside looked like in the beginning of this process:

View attachment 3705615

Even with the scraping (likely from the park brake shoes) if it turns with little resistance (a small enough amount that with a good turn the rotor will free spin a bit if the caliper is off) it should come off (though you may want to adjust the handbrake once your in there to have it not scrape) . One other thing you can try is running a nut down the wheel studs to put pressure on one side of the rotor. But do this with a hand wrench as to not over tighten the studs. If the head of the m8 bolt is hitting the rotor before meeting resistance you need to go longer, 50mm or more, and you will need 2 of them. Make sure to turn them equally.

As far as the star adjuster not turning goes, it can be difficult with the rotor on but not impossible the easier direction to turn it will pull the brake shoes in. Spray some penetrating fluid on it and the wheel stud surfaces to assist.

 

[BTLSHP]

Even with the scraping (likely from the park brake shoes) if it turns with little resistance (a small enough amount that with a good turn the rotor will free spin a bit if the caliper is off) it should come off (though you may want to adjust the handbrake once your in there to have it not scrape) . One other thing you can try is running a nut down the wheel studs to put pressure on one side of the rotor. But do this with a hand wrench as to not over tighten the studs. If the head of the m8 bolt is hitting the rotor before meeting resistance you need to go longer, 50mm or more, and you will need 2 of them. Make sure to turn them equally.

As far as the star adjuster not turning goes, it can be difficult with the rotor on but not impossible the easier direction to turn it will pull the brake shoes in. Spray some penetrating fluid on it and the wheel stud surfaces to assist.

I will get longer bolts in the morning and go at it again. I am a bit cautious and come here for help whenever I feel there is a gap between what I see here or the FSM suggests and what I experience on this beast.

 

[mudgudgeon]

The star wheels can be a bear to get moving if they haven't been touched in a while.
A well placed screw driver should do the trick. Make sure the access hole is lined up directly over the star wheel so you can get some leverage through the hole.

Did the m8 bolts shift the rotor at all? If it's moved a little bit, but stopped, it's binding on the park brake shoes. Wind in the tensioners.
If it's not moved at all, it's rusted on the hub

 

[BTLSHP]

The star wheels can be a bear to get moving if they haven't been touched in a while.
A well placed screw driver should do the trick. Make sure the access hole is lined up directly over the star wheel so you can get some leverage through the hole.

Did the m8 bolts shift the rotor at all? If it's moved a little bit, but stopped, it's binding on the park brake shoes. Wind in the tensioners.
If it's not moved at all, it's rusted on the hub

I actually could wind it out with the M8 bolts to the end of the studs, then my bolts bottomed out.

Part of it is at least relative to my Lexus ES, the access hole in the rotor is tiny. Is there harm in longer bolts?

 

[NelsonCruiser]

I actually could wind it out with the M8 bolts to the end of the studs, then my bolts bottomed out.

Part of it is at least relative to my Lexus ES, the access hole in the rotor is tiny. Is there harm in longer bolts?

Read This 50mm is what you need.

 

[jonheld]

Due to the shape of the rear spindle, if the rotors were not installed correctly, the M8 bolts may be missing the face of the spindle and pushing on air.

If the bell cranks are not resting on the end stops with the hand brake off, then pull the cotter pin, push the retaining pin out, and remove the cable from the bell crank. This should relax the shoes so you can remove the drum.
You can also adjust the end stops in to help.

 

[BTLSHP]

Due to the shape of the rear spindle, if the rotors were not installed correctly, the M8 bolts may be missing the face of the spindle and pushing on air.

If the bell cranks are not resting on the end stops with the hand brake off, then pull the cotter pin, push the retaining pin out, and remove the cable from the bell crank. This should relax the shoes so you can remove the drum.
You can also adjust the end stops in to help.

Okay, I understand this one and will make another effort at the star wheel the test the bell crank on the backside as well as the stop. I can get this now. Thanks to all.

Any thoughts on the bearings, or is it the condition of the races that a decision? I have a new set of Toyota ready to go... but I also have to do the fronts...

 

[mudgudgeon]

I actually could wind it out with the M8 bolts to the end of the studs, then my bolts bottomed out.

Sounds like longer bolts will see you clear then.

 

[Kernal]

Are the rear rotors completely frozen in place, or will they rock a bit in and out??

One last thought, apply heat (MAP gas torch if you have one) around the circumference of the "hat" of the rear rotors, along with all the other tips above it might help a bit.

 

[BTLSHP]

Argh, I must be missing something completely. The rotors will turn a bit and you can hear them dragging on something (shoes, I assume). They are still on the car as I put the baring back in for now.

I can't get to the star wheel with a screwdriver with any consistency - like every 15 minutes. The hole is too small and I can't get light in there.

I disconnected the cable yoke at the back and unwound one of the stop screws. The rotor still did not budge.

I got 50mm screws and using a 3/8's rachet with some modest force, I promptly split the driver's side rotor.

What is holding these things on?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Only two things can hold them on.
Friction/interference between rotor and hub due to rust or minor damage.
Friction between rotor and e-brake shoes.

If it's friction with shoes, they'll give a bit, then bind.

Also penetrative oil around the hub/ rotor gap.
Deburr/ de-rust the hub.

Put a bit of fur around that little hole, and persist with the star wheel.
Its all in the angle, and how you wiggle the screwdriver

 

[BTLSHP]

Only two things can hold them on.
Friction/interference between rotor and hub due to dust or minor damage.
Friction between rotor and e-brake shoes.

If it's friction with shoes, they'll give a bit, then bind.

Also penetrative oil around the hub/ rotor gap.
Deburr/ de-rust the hub.

Put a bit of fur around that little hole, and persist with the star wheel.
Its all in the angle, and how you wiggle the screwdriver

The hub has been soaking in penetrating oil. There is a ridge on the hub that maker the limit of where I have been able to move the rotor.

 

[BTLSHP]

I went out a bought a spoon for adjusting these star wheels, it will not fit. Sorry, I am frustrated beyond belief. I can reliably get on the star wheel now but it will not budge.

On the Pax side the screws (50mm) went all the way in with a bit of popping and what I could see from the top was the two shoes sort of spreading in a "V" shape with no signs the shoes had had mold at 3 and 9 o'clock.

I have removed the cable at the back and I think relieved tension on a little 10mm adjusting screw so that is all loose. I would think this releases tension based on the way the lever works in the car.

Do I keep getting longer screws and try and force it off or am I going to break something?

 

[mudgudgeon]

I wouldn't keep forcing it.
Take a break.
Try to find pics or video of the set up.
Probably not what you want to hear, but I think if the shoes are binding, you're gonna have to figure out the star wheel

 

[BTLSHP]

My neighbor came over this evening with a tool he uses on a trailer. We got the driver's side in a few minutes. The Pax side is a self-inflicted wound and the hole no longer aligns with the star wheel easily. We tried from behind but it would not budge.

The driver's side shoe has only the thinest layer of material left, so I will be changing those now.

 

[BTLSHP]

Ok, we got it. I made every mistake in the book, but fortunately the hole was close enough and we finally snagged the star wheel and moved it twice. That got the drum turning and we aligned the hole and the star wheel. A few more turns and we were free. Shoes are pretty thin - 0.1mm to 0.12mm.

I have to order shoes and rotors as well as head out of town. The hubs are clean and my feeling is I should get the new bearings in and get the hubs "closed" before I head out.