I'm starting a dual steering buggy that is using 2 FJ60 fronts, planning to use RCV shafts / joints. I'm coming from a big power V8 / rockwell background with little to no Toyota knowledge and people are telling me that I need to put 80 balls on my axles to get the bigger joints. But the 80 shafts are still just 30-spline and what little RCV / Long breakage I have seen has always been the shaft, not the joint. So what is the point of a stronger joint in that case? Have I just been lucky to not see the joint let go? This will be a very small, light buggy, 2500 lbs or less.
RCV axles / joints - what breaks? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter patooyee
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I think you'd be better off with some dana 60's, but for what you're thinking I don't see a need to swap to the larger birfs.
- Thread starter
- #3
Thank you. That is to say you believe the shaft to be the weak link over the joint?
I do. From the couple rcv/Longfields that I've seen broken, it's been at the shaft.
Upgrade the shaft and you will see hub breakage.
I am not aware of anyone that has made a rear steer Toy axle of any form that has been happy with it.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of toy stuff. I just do not think it is robust enough for rear steer.
I am not aware of anyone that has made a rear steer Toy axle of any form that has been happy with it.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of toy stuff. I just do not think it is robust enough for rear steer.
- Thread starter
- #7
You mean locking hub? I would be running flanges.
I've decided that I'm going to truss the crap out of the housings, plate the stock knuckles and run the RCV's until I decide they aren't right at which point I will look for FJ80 stuff.
This will be a very light buggy. 2500 lbs or less.
I've decided that I'm going to truss the crap out of the housings, plate the stock knuckles and run the RCV's until I decide they aren't right at which point I will look for FJ80 stuff.
This will be a very light buggy. 2500 lbs or less.
Even rear FF axles are known for killing studs.
Yeah, light or not, the rear axle sees a lot more stress than the front. I know you have been around the block once or twice. Just sayin'...
Yeah, light or not, the rear axle sees a lot more stress than the front. I know you have been around the block once or twice. Just sayin'...
- Thread starter
- #9
I've been beating on my rockwells for almost a decade, I guarantee a lot harder than any Toyota axle could possibly be beat on. I've never once had a drive flange bolt come loose or break. I guess you are talking about Toyota FF rear axles here? (I guess there are some of them floating around?) Because I've never seen this as an epidemic on tons either.
But I constantly see this mentioned as an issue with Toyotas. What's going on there? Is the bolt circle just too small or something?
I've toyed with the idea of machining aluminum hubs since they are easy to make / without internal splines. Would keeping the hub flange round (instead of star-shaped) and using double the bolts in a custom flange alleviate that?
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
there are few threads around here with upgraded options for Toy FF rears with upgraded bolts and dowel pins ..
The hub flange studs on the Toyota that Mace is talking about is where the silver selectable hub body bolts to the wheel bearing hub. See the 6 small studs, and two dowels, in the picture below (picture is an FZJ80 hub, but they are equivalent in this aspect).
As @Tapage said, people have upgraded the studs to ARP studs, or increased the stud diameter, but it is still considered a weak point.
- Thread starter
- #12
I've seen those. It just seems like most other axles don't need all that so why do Toyotas?
The hub flange studs on the Toyota that Mace is talking about is where the silver selectable hub body bolts to the wheel bearing hub. See the 6 small studs, and two dowels, in the picture below (picture is an FZJ80 hub, but they are equivalent in this aspect).
As @Tapage said, people have upgraded the studs to ARP studs, or increased the stud diameter, but it is still considered a weak point.
I know what you're talking about, just wondering why its an issue on Toyotas and not others? Have any theories been put out there?
What other axles are you comparing to?
The 14 bolt axle, for example, uses 8 5/8" bolts (IIRC) that are torqued to 150ft/lbs. That is a TON more material for shear strength and a TON more pressure from the axle flange to the hub due to the increased torque. Don't even try to compare Toyota axles to rockwells. That's like comparing a full grown tree to a toothpick.
I'm not sure that there were any other non heavy duty full floating rear axles offered to the US market, in any vehicle, other than the Land Cruiser. The fact is that the LC hub studs are small in diameter (compared to others), which not only limits shear strength, but also the amount of torque you're able to apply to each nut.
What are you comparing this mating surface to?
- Thread starter
- #14
60's, 70's, 80's, rockwells, 14-bolts is my comparison. I understand Toyotas are much smaller in every way. So that's the going theory then? Toyotas come loose and break just because they have less surface area to clamp to? That's fine it that's it ... I'm asking ...
The theory is as I stated above. Either they come loose and break, due to neglect, or you're simply applying more torque to the hub studs than they can hold, through torque multiplication (doublers, etc.) or through a more powerful stock motor.
Not to my knowledge. I bet you'd have to also run a D44 spindle to accomodate that.
If you start blowing hub studs, then people do one of three things, usually in sequence
1. Upgrade to ARP studs and lay off the skinny pedal
2. Upgrade to larger diameter studs/cap screws and lay off the skinny pedal
3. Upgrade to heavier duty axles
Trailgear just came out with this. Check out their site.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
It's about skinny pedal too .. I mean I've been wheeling my 60 series with even SF rear axles and locked axles chained 40" for few years now with no other problems than a broken front ARB ( nasty situation there is a video about that in youtube ).
Another important note it´s I wheel with a engine that probably it's delivering about 60HP on the wheels right now .. ( still drive me there and back )
Another important note it´s I wheel with a engine that probably it's delivering about 60HP on the wheels right now .. ( still drive me there and back )
This right here, I hadn't seen this before! Pretty slick. Looks like it's only designed for the front axle though, would probably need some modification to run on a FJ60 FF rear axle, and it doesn't look like it'd work with the FZJ80 FF rear.
https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/KIT_HUB_STUDLESS_TOYOTA/i_0_0_4699/_302583-1-KIT.aspx#.U72KufldV8H
- Thread starter
- #20
Is this what you are referring to? Seems like a good idea ...
https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/KIT_HUB_STUDLESS_TOYOTA/i_0_0_3488/_302583-1-KIT.aspx#.U72Lw_ldUQM
