Rake too much after an ironman spring + torsion install (1 Viewer)

[Dmonies]

First and foremost, thank you for existing. This site has helped me so much in the past 2 years. This site has rescued me more than I could count.
That being said, I have just recently installed medium load (0-440lbs) ironman springs accompanies with ironman torsion bars and bilstein 5160s. Been following the ironman instructions on youtube plus reading a few threads on here to ensure I install everything correctly. After install of the rear I immediately noticed a difference in height between the front and rear of the car. I thought well maybe I need to put the spare tire back on and so I did. Next I went to fully fill my gas tank up to ensure I had some more weight added to the car BUT still it seems incredible high compared to the front. (BTW the rear seats have been stowed away and are not in the car)

I went back and watched the video of installation. I had everything correct. I had the D/S spring on the passenger side. and the N/S spring (the taller one) on the left driver side.

How much rake is too much? I have already adjusted the front to be around 2inches of lift. I am getting around 60-70mm of droop as well.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun and need the suspension to settle alittle bit.
I included measurements below and how exactly I came up with those numbers.

One thing I don't want to do is crank the front up any more, I like where it is sitting.
From what I have measured I am almost at 2inches of rake. Its very noticeable.

What are my options here? Do I need to invest in a metal rear bumper lol?

Measured with a tall metal ruler from the bottom of the rim. The ruler is seated on the lip of the rim and crosses thru the center of the hub.

	Before (inches)	After (inches)
Front Left (Drivers Side)	27.25	29.25
Front Right	27.33 (close)	29.3
Back Left (Drivers Side)	29.5	31.9 (basically 32)
Back Right	29.6	32

 

[Bisho]

IIRC, the Ironman springs quoted lift is with an additional 400lbs in/on the truck. I have a friend with a similar stink bug look with the Ironman springs. He cranked up the front to compensate, but be warned that will hurt the ride and shorten cv life.

 

[Dmonies]

IIRC, the Ironman springs quoted lift is with an additional 400lbs in/on the truck. I have a friend with a similar stink bug look with the Ironman springs. He cranked up the front to compensate, but be warned that will hurt the ride and shorten cv life.

Thank you for your prompt response. I did install the diff drop kit from ironman.

Now that I ponder a bit more on it, maybe I should continue to drive it around and wait a week or so to let it settle.

By how much did your friend crank up his torsion bars? This is something I am considering as my last resort because they are already pushing that 2inch lift based on my measurements. And also I think my driver side adjustment screw is getting close to running out of space. At that point I would have no option but to re-set the splines to get more space.

 

[Bisho]

Thank you for your prompt response. I did install the diff drop kit from ironman.

Now that I ponder a bit more on it, maybe I should continue to drive it around and wait a week or so to let it settle.

By how much did your friend crank up his torsion bars? This is something I am considering as my last resort because they are already pushing that 2inch lift based on my measurements. And also I think my driver side adjustment screw is getting close to running out of space. At that point I would have no option but to re-set the splines to get more space.

IIRC he had the front at 22.5”, to hub center, which only gave 1.75” of droop (2.2” is desired). He still had 1.5” or more difference front to back.

 

[4Beast]

First and foremost, thank you for existing. This site has helped me so much in the past 2 years. This site has rescued me more than I could count.
That being said, I have just recently installed medium load (0-440lbs) ironman springs accompanies with ironman torsion bars and bilstein 5160s. Been following the ironman instructions on youtube plus reading a few threads on here to ensure I install everything correctly. After install of the rear I immediately noticed a difference in height between the front and rear of the car. I thought well maybe I need to put the spare tire back on and so I did. Next I went to fully fill my gas tank up to ensure I had some more weight added to the car BUT still it seems incredible high compared to the front. (BTW the rear seats have been stowed away and are not in the car)

I went back and watched the video of installation. I had everything correct. I had the D/S spring on the passenger side. and the N/S spring (the taller one) on the left driver side.

How much rake is too much? I have already adjusted the front to be around 2inches of lift. I am getting around 60-70mm of droop as well.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun and need the suspension to settle alittle bit.
I included measurements below and how exactly I came up with those numbers.

One thing I don't want to do is crank the front up any more, I like where it is sitting.
From what I have measured I am almost at 2inches of rake. Its very noticeable.

What are my options here? Do I need to invest in a metal rear bumper lol?

View attachment 3335149

Measured with a tall metal ruler from the bottom of the rim. The ruler is seated on the lip of the rim and crosses thru the center of the hub.

View attachment 3335135

	Before (inches)	After (inches)
Front Left (Drivers Side)	27.25	29.25
Front Right	27.33 (close)	29.3
Back Left (Drivers Side)	29.5	31.9 (basically 32)
Back Right	29.6	32

I think you could get more data measuring from center of the hub, as that's what a lot of others do. I mean assuming those are 18s I guess you could take 9 off, but still...

 

[McDuff123]

1) it will settle some…maybe 1/2”
2) I think it looks good as is
3) as soon as you load gear, cooler, stuff in it, it will be perfect.

what you don’t want is for it to sit nose-high when loaded. Worse driving characteristics, blinds oncoming traffic, harder for you to see over the hood and it looks like crap.

 

[Dmonies]

I think you could get more data measuring from center of the hub, as that's what a lot of others do. I mean assuming those are 18s I guess you could take 9 off, but still...

I lifted the front and cranked the torsions 1.5turns (measured and marked nut). Im getting exactly 60mm of droop distance now.
I remeasured the rake with using the center of the hub as my reference point, I am at 21inches on both front sides and 23.5 inches in the back with a 2.5 inch rake. Again, no modifications or load in the back + rear seat delete.

I will come back here Monday next week after it settles a bit more and remeasure everything.

 

[Dmonies]

1) it will settle some…maybe 1/2”
2) I think it looks good as is
3) as soon as you load gear, cooler, stuff in it, it will be perfect.

what you don’t want is for it to sit nose-high when loaded. Worse driving characteristics, blinds oncoming traffic, harder for you to see over the hood and it looks like crap.

Yea you're right, I do have plenty to do with this thing. Its just that watching all these videos and reading other people's experiences got me worried.

 

[McDuff123]

IF it were me (and I fully acknowledge it’s not), I’d leave it alone and let it settle out for a month or a few thousand miles.
Take periodic measurements to see if there is any “progress”…
I’d hesitate to crank up the front any more. Don’t go chasing problems by introducing more problems .
Have fun with this process, and be sure to report in from time to time.

 

[Dmonies]

IF it were me (and I fully acknowledge it’s not), I’d leave it alone and let it settle out for a month or a few thousand miles.
Take periodic measurements to see if there is any “progress”…
I’d hesitate to crank up the front any more. Don’t go chasing problems by introducing more problems .
Have fun with this process, and be sure to report in from time to time.

That's sound advice which I will plan to do!

Now to figure out what to do with my OEM torsion bars....

 

[shimian]

This post has me scared to go for the Ironman FCP 2" lift. I didn't intend on riding around with 440lb of extra weight. There's also an FB post in one of the 100 groups from yesterday or today with the same crazy rake going on.

 

[FamilyCamper]

@Dmonies I also have about 2.5 inches of rake and a very similar truck! I have OME springs but I think they are the same weight level. I agree with the advice above and would say this is a good scenario for any towing or when loaded down for a camping trip. I keep a good amount of tools and some recovery gear in the back which adds some weight. I think in the future with a steel bumper it will be perfect as well.

 

[Dmonies]

@Dmonies I also have about 2.5 inches of rake and a very similar truck! I have OME springs but I think they are the same weight level. I agree with the advice above and would say this is a good scenario for any towing or when loaded down for a camping trip. I keep a good amount of tools and some recovery gear in the back which adds some weight. I think in the future with a steel bumper it will be perfect as well. View attachment 3337351

wow okay, did the rear coils settle a bit for you?

 

[FamilyCamper]

wow okay, did the rear coils settle a bit for you?

I'm sure they settled a small amount but I got the truck once they were on and still have this much rake. I do have my front a little bit higher with just 56mm droop driver side and 61 passenger side. I was using the same measurements and I am around 30.75 inches bottom of 17" rim to fender

 

[Manhattan]

I have the IronMan 13B; 0-440 lbs. springs and TBs. Initially, we had set up the front with too much lift - not enough rake. That lasted a day. The ride was horrible. After dialing the TBs down, the rake and ride were great.

This is day one - before and after dialing the front down.

This is how the truck sits now

• Rear: 23.25”
• Front: 22”

 

[Dmonies]

I have the IronMan 13B; 0-440 lbs. springs and TBs. Initially, we had set up the front with too much lift - not enough rake. That lasted a day. The ride was horrible. After dialing the TBs down, the rake and ride were great.

This is day one - before and after dialing the front down.
View attachment 3337494

This is how the truck sits now

• Rear: 23.25”
• Front: 22”

View attachment 3337496

Love that color.

At 22inch in the front how much droop is that getting u?

 

[DownByTheRiver]

Following

 

[Manhattan]

At 22inch in the front how much droop is that getting u?

I've never measured the droop. Ya got me wondering.

 

[Bisho]

My truck (with Toughdog 53mm shocks) droops 23.5" to hub center. My understanding is the desired droop delta is 2.2" (55mm), which for me, at least would be max lift of 21.3".

Now, I've looked through the FSM, and I can't find the 55mm reference anywhere, although it's very likely I'm the problem.

 

[jLB]

My truck (with Toughdog 53mm shocks) droops 23.5" to hub center. My understanding is the desired droop delta is 2.2" (55mm), which for me, at least would be max lift of 21.3".

Now, I've looked through the FSM, and I can't find the 55mm reference anywhere, although it's very likely I'm the problem.

I suspect that you won’t find that anywhere in the FSM, because they don’t expect you to lift the front above the factory setting, which has approximately the same amount of droop as compression.

I suspect that you’ll find various recommendations of 50-70mm as the minimum amount of required droop in different aftermarket “lift kits” instructions.

Example from Slee/OME:

https://sleeoffroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/PUB-ARB-Torsion-Bar-Adjustment.pdf

Ideal would still be near the midpoint of travel.