Rake too much after an ironman spring + torsion install

[Dmonies]

Tapping back, Ive raised the height a big more. Its not as extreme anymore. I have added Whiteknuckle rock sliders as well. I am suffering from harsh ride quality. So I have the IM 2in lift kit and as we know the rears are too tall. I have Bilstein 5160s for shocks all around. I have the diff drop kit as well. I dont have any other added weight other than the rock sliders. I also have the TT extended linkage for both sway bars. I had new upgraded UCAs from freedom offroad.

I feel like I need newer springs in the back, ones that are rated a bit less than the IM ones. Every bump on the road is so pronounced. Feels like I am on a safari expedition every time I go to the grocery store.

 

[abuck99]

Helpful for readers if you report the model number of the springs you have installed- and report the lift measurements front and rear from fender lip to hub center: For example 21.5" Front Driver, 21.675" Front Passenger, 22.750 Rear Driver, 23.00 Rear Passenger. 1 to 1.5" rake >> rear to front << is about right-

Ironman TOY13B Performance Springs 0-220kg match well with FCP shocks on trucks with minimal added weight ( stock bumpers)- they will settle about 1/4-1/2 " over the next year. The spring rate is very compliant and generally speaking not harsh at all. The FCP/ TOY13B combo yields stock feeling ride- with all the benefits for a lifted truck. I dont work for IM- just been down this path and my experience.

If you have the TOY25C Constant Load 200-400Kg- that is too much spring for your application.

FWIW Bilsteins can be harsh riding on the 100 series so it may be the shock and not the spring you're experiencing ride quality issues.

 

[Dmonies]

Helpful for readers if you report the model number of the springs you have installed- and report the lift measurements front and rear from fender lip to hub center: For example 21.5" Front Driver, 21.675" Front Passenger, 22.750 Rear Driver, 23.00 Rear Passenger. 1 to 1.5" rake >> rear to front << is about right-

Ironman TOY13B Performance Springs 0-220kg match well with FCP shocks on trucks with minimal added weight ( stock bumpers)- they will settle about 1/4-1/2 " over the next year. The spring rate is very compliant and generally speaking not harsh at all. The FCP/ TOY13B combo yields stock feeling ride- with all the benefits for a lifted truck. I dont work for IM- just been down this path and my experience.

If you have the TOY25C Constant Load 200-400Kg- that is too much spring for your application.

FWIW Bilsteins can be harsh riding on the 100 series so it may be the shock and not the spring you're experiencing ride quality issues.

I have the TOY13B. Let me remeasure my ride height later today and I will get back to you

 

[Trapper50cal]

Get a hardshell RTT (which obviously doesn't have all it's weight slung out behind the truck) and let her settle. You'll appreciate that rake when you're loaded to the gills.

I'm at 22" on the front and am under the impression that at 558mm, I'm 3mm proud of optimal 555mm and that gives me at to just under 2" droop. (2"-1.85"+/-)

 

[Dmonies]

Get a hardshell RTT (which obviously doesn't have all it's weight slung out behind the truck) and let her settle. You'll appreciate that rake when you're loaded to the gills.

I'm at 22" on the front and am under the impression that at 558mm, I'm 3mm proud of optimal 555mm and that gives me at to just under 2" droop. (2"-1.85"+/-)

Helpful for readers if you report the model number of the springs you have installed- and report the lift measurements front and rear from fender lip to hub center: For example 21.5" Front Driver, 21.675" Front Passenger, 22.750 Rear Driver, 23.00 Rear Passenger. 1 to 1.5" rake >> rear to front << is about right-

Ironman TOY13B Performance Springs 0-220kg match well with FCP shocks on trucks with minimal added weight ( stock bumpers)- they will settle about 1/4-1/2 " over the next year. The spring rate is very compliant and generally speaking not harsh at all. The FCP/ TOY13B combo yields stock feeling ride- with all the benefits for a lifted truck. I dont work for IM- just been down this path and my experience.

If you have the TOY25C Constant Load 200-400Kg- that is too much spring for your application.

FWIW Bilsteins can be harsh riding on the 100 series so it may be the shock and not the spring you're experiencing ride quality issues.

Currently on flat surface I’m at 21inches hub to fender in the front. And 23.25inches in the rear give or take a few millimeters from either side.

I’ll remeasure my droop today and see if I can crank my fronts another half inch. I do have the freedom off-road UCA which definitely looked like it gave a tad bit more travel

 

[abuck99]

Good measurements. 21.5 upfront is my limit- and that yields about 70mm droop +/-. The steering gets pretty light and loose any higher. You'll also loose some caster as you raise the front. Be conservative with adjustments upward. FYI-The rear will settle after some time-

 

[Dmonies]

Good measurements. 21.5 upfront is my limit- and that yields about 70mm droop +/-. The steering gets pretty light and loose any higher. You'll also loose some caster as you raise the front. Be conservative with adjustments upward. FYI-The rear will settle after some time-

I cranked it alittle more I’m at 545mm at the front. Almost 21.5inches.

 

[mp_cude]

Did it settle any?

Initially, finding this thread troubled me a little, as I just ordered the Ironman medium, 2”. I have no desire or plans for bumpers. Though, I do tow from time to time and load with a lot of kids often. So, I know I need a medium for a third of the time but don’t want to run a stink bug the rest of the time.

After some consideration, it seems to me the solution is simple to address the initial rake in the back, the harsh ride and to help accelerate settling. An 80lb sack of quickrete is compact, dense and is only $5. A guy can buy five sacks (400lbs) for roughly $30. Put enough in the back for the desired rake. Additionally, it should smooth out the ride quite a bit. I imagine that’s what I’ll do upon installing my lift, setting the front at 21 inches and adding enough ballast to achieve 1 inch of rake, prior to an alignment.….just my thoughts

 

[Dmonies]

Did it settle any?

Initially, finding this thread troubled me a little, as I just ordered the Ironman medium, 2”. I have no desire or plans for bumpers. Though, I do tow from time to time and load with a lot of kids often. So, I know I need a medium for a third of the time but don’t want to run a stink bug the rest of the time.

After some consideration, it seems to me the solution is simple to address the initial rake in the back, the harsh ride and to help accelerate settling. An 80lb sack of quickrete is compact, dense and is only $5. A guy can buy five sacks (400lbs) for roughly $30. Put enough in the back for the desired rake. Additionally, it should smooth out the ride quite a bit. I imagine that’s what I’ll do upon installing my lift, setting the front at 21 inches and adding enough ballast to achieve 1 inch of rake, prior to an alignment.….just my thoughts

It settled in the beginning. I have cranked up the fronts a smudge more. The rake is noticeable. I plan to just keep it this way because the times I have taken it out for a journey, the weight all brought it to a proper rake.

 

[mp_cude]

It settled in the beginning. I have cranked up the fronts a smudge more. The rake is noticeable. I plan to just keep it this way because the times I have taken it out for a journey, the weight all brought it to a proper rake.

How about ride quality when loaded?

 

[jLB]

I have no desire or plans for bumpers. Though, I do tow from time to time and load with a lot of kids often. So, I know I need a medium for a third of the time but don’t want to run a stink bug the rest of the time.

How about ride quality when loaded?

In my experience, I’d avoid the 32mm Ironman torsion bars with these goals. Re-indexed OE non-AHC torsion bars would be my first choice, followed by OME aftermarket torsion bars as my second choice.

The 32mm torsion bars cause you to lose most of your compression travel, due to the spring rate (thickness). Cranking them up to level the vehicle causes you to lose droop/extension travel.

If you are “stink bug” averse, I’d be trying to stay in the 1.5” range. On the 100 series suspension kits, the difference between a 1” kit, and a 2.5” kit, is usually limited to the height of the rear coils, everything else is the same. Most of the 100 series coils that I have tried, have been taller than advertised. If your coils are shorter than you’d like, you can always add a “trim packer” (spacer) to get more height. If your coils are too tall, you’re pretty much stuck (other than adding weight).

 

[mp_cude]

In my experience, I’d avoid the 32mm Ironman torsion bars with these goals. Re-indexed OE non-AHC torsion bars would be my first choice, followed by OME aftermarket torsion bars as my second choice.

The 32mm torsion bars cause you to lose most of your compression travel, due to the spring rate (thickness). Cranking them up to level the vehicle causes you to lose droop/extension travel.

If you are “stink bug” averse, I’d be trying to stay in the 1.5” range. On the 100 series suspension kits, the difference between a 1” kit, and a 2.5” kit, is usually limited to the height of the rear coils, everything else is the same. Most of the 100 series coils that I have tried, have been taller than advertised. If your coils are shorter than you’d like, you can always add a “trim packer” (spacer) to get more height. If your coils are too tall, you’re pretty much stuck (other than adding weight).

This post pretty much confirms what my gut has been telling me, but I got sucked into a 25% BF sale at Ironman. With my current intention I would say new OEM springs and a 1” spacer would be sufficient, however…

Just because I don’t plan bumpers at the moment, that doesn’t mean I won’t want them in a year or so.

Additionally, I got to thinking. I will be running split ring rims on 33s. The additional weight of the tire wheel combo may be better served with the Ironman setup, specifically droop and rebound.

 

[jLB]

Additionally, I got to thinking. I will be running split ring rims on 33s. The additional weight of the tire wheel combo may be better served with the Ironman setup, specifically droop and rebound.

In my opinion, the heavier wheel & tire combination might justify stiffer valving on the shocks, to control the extra weight, but I don’t see a real benefit of stiffer springs for the heavier wheel/tire.

 

[jflone]

In my opinion, the heavier wheel & tire combination might justify stiffer valving on the shocks, to control the extra weight, but I don’t see a real benefit of stiffer springs for the heavier wheel/tire.

Exactly. Wheels/tires are unsprung weight so not sure why a stiffer spring would make a difference.

 

[jLB]

Just because I don’t plan bumpers at the moment, that doesn’t mean I won’t want them in a year or so.

If I’ve learned anything in my ~30+ years of driving Land Cruisers, it’s build your suspension for your current setup, not your potential setup. Suffering for years for what you might do at some point in the future sucks.