Rainman's Brake Lines

[SouthBostonFJ40]

Here's a picture I found. Hope they'll look better than this. Lol!

 

[Rainman]

That's the Grand Prix track I was talking about. That's close to OEM and I can't for the life of me figure out why they did it that way. You service the diff and it's in the way!

 

[Rainman]

By the way, just so somebody won't post it first and think I missed it... The left end of the rear axle line will have a change. The step up will become a step back to get out of the way of the bump stop above it.

 

[Vae Victus]

Hey guys and gals, just wanted to chime in here. Rainman is going to make me a set after he makes a set for his truck, and a master set. I've got 50' of the ni-cop Nickle/Copper lines from, hmm, I think Amazon.com that I'm donating to Rainy in trade, plus some fittings from FedHill.

Yes, the fitting types do matter (I think oem has the non-threaded tip which seals better), but I can't find what thread talked about that yet. My fittings that I bought are shown here:

When I did the research, I like the NiCop because it was flexible, didn't corrode, and was fairly inexpensive. I had planned on doing all my bending myself, but when Rainman said he would do it (and I'd be a guinea pig for his testing), I quickly said yes.

My thoughts would be that Rainman will build a couple sets in the model years he knows, tests the fittings (shoulder vs no shoulder, threaded vs non-threaded (shoulder) tip, deals with the proper size choices - 11mm oem vs 10mm which is easier to find, etc), and get to know the process better. Then, with help from those who have other model years, he can learn what it takes to re-create those and he broadens what he can offer.

Looking at his photos, you can all tell that Rainy is a perfectionist, and based on his profession (3D graphic designer and technical illustrator), you can see that he "gets" how to model these lines to make them beautiful and functional.

I will offer for Rainman to be able to test the "shipping" capacity of my NiCop lines once he makes them, though we live 20 minutes apart. I'll bet that these lines will be able to be bent, boxed, unbent and installed easily. Clearly there are some other materials that this will work for too, so I'm sure there will be choices to make here.

I applaud RainMan for keeping the craftsmanship alive!

Now if we could just get him to learn the craft of harness-making from Coolerman (who is having to deal with the death of his business-partner, and has no/little time to make harnesses anymore).
I know, I know Rainey ->

 

[tyama]

I'll post up the soft line info I got out of the NAPA site:

Brake /clutch hoses Male M10 to Female M10 lengths:



97 land cruiser left front 15.5”

rear 13.375”

97 4 runner rear 14.625”

97 tacoma rear 15.5”

2002 tundra rear 20.25”

2002 4 runner rear 10.125”

84 pickup 19.00”

92 pickup rear 17.25”

92 land cruiser front 16”

84 land cruiser rear 14” with wire braid

Napa UP 38009 22”

HTH, ty

 

[Rainman]

Okay. Vae Victus came by today with the brake lines and fittings. While here, I tested his small practice line with the "shoulder" fittings and they will thread on my May '77 FJ40 but not correctly. The male receiver for my fittings are a bit shallow and thread all the way past the cone inside. There must be a mfg date change for these. Does anyone know when that may be? I think the only thing Custom Tubes did right is the fittings.

For those of you who would like partial or full kits for your truck, I hope you have a little time. I am trying to gear up for producing these for all who need them but it's going to take a little time to figure out my plan and to get accurate combinations all figured out. Unfortunately I don't think I could make it as simple as buying the different sets and copying them as I haven't found anyone that makes the lines up to my standards. "If I'm paying for pre-bent lines, I expect them to fit." At the same time, I'm trying to recreate the routs for these to be simpler and easy to see how they fit.

I may edit the first post to make it a bit more obvious that I'm asking if there is enough business out there for it to make sense if I start an FJ40 Brake Lines Outlet. Maybe:
Rainman's Brake Lines... or
We Brake For U...
All Bent Up!

 

[fj401978]

The way you routed the line over the rear axle looks good and would work for me, just curious about how you will ship these babies...and if you are going to offer the buyers choice of fittings, I would prefer the ones with the non-threaded tip. I'm not in a big hurry, I am doing some other things to the '40 at this time. Thanks for offering to do this!

 

[Rainman]

I've done some studying and I believe I can put some of this to rest. Notice in the picture below that there is a difference between the two nuts not just because of the shoulder. Look in the ends. The shouldered nut has a much shallower chamfer. That may be for a bubble flare. (I can't prove that) But by logic, the deeper chamfer against a 45* double flare would be a much better seal. Besides, as long as the threaded hole goes past the female cone, deeper threads is also much better. The shouldered nut on my rear drums only went in about 2 to 3 threads while the shoulder less nut gets 6.

 

[Rainman]

Other research shows that just from 7/'70 until 8/'80 and counting only 10 different pieces such as rear axle long, rear axle short, frame rail, firewall to front, and firewall to back, etc., there are 28 different patterns to be made. I have just about figured out all the lines for 9/75 to 9/77 but that's not even half. There's only one change on one line up until 8/80. The problem is that I need to find trucks in the different time spans before and after changes. For instance, in the 10 lines I've concentrated on, there was only one change (in one line) from '63 to 5/70 and that was in the frame rail line in 3/70. in 5/70 the two front axle lines changed. Then in 7/70, EVERY line changed. 4 changes in 9/71 then a big gap until 9/75 when they converted over to discs in the front. Everything but the drum loops in the rear changed... this is boring. I'll clean up the chart and post it later.

So if there are any of you around Franklin, TN and can let me crawl under your Cruiser for a few hours or days, let me know. One from 8/70 to 9/71, one from 10/71 to 8/75 and one from 2/79 to 7/80. If I can pattern after those three trucks I think I'd be in business!

 

[motovate]

Very Cool - Wondering if you will do any modifying (if needed) for rear disc brake conversions. To make it confusing - in the future I will be interested in a complete set of lines. What I have is a 1966 FJ40 body & Frame and what I'm doing is switching a set of 1976 FJ55 axles to the 66. They are supposed to switch right across but I have found a few minor differences. The front 76 axle is stock Disc brakes and will remain that way and the rear 76 axle will have the stock drum system removed and a Poser disc "kit" installed. I think there may be a little bend difference going from the Drum to Disc hook up but nothing major and I understand the stock 76 10mm fittings will fit right up to both the front as well as the rear disc's . I'm wondering if after you get the "stock" configurations worked out if you are planning on doing something for the rear Disc's??? What I see of what you are doing looks pretty sanitary!!

LBM

 

[Rainman]

I put a rear disc conversion on my 40 yeeeears ago. So long ago I can't remember what I did. When you get the conversion and axle under the truck, send me a picture and I'll bet I can remember just what I did. My guess is two fold. Either I cut the line back and added an "adapter" section, or just bent the line around if it was close enough. OR... post or PM a link to the conversion you are using. That may jog my memory too.

 

[Rainman]

Very Cool - Wondering if you will do any modifying (if needed) for rear disc brake conversions. To make it confusing - in the future I will be interested in a complete set of lines. What I have is a 1966 FJ40 body & Frame and what I'm doing is switching a set of 1976 FJ55 axles to the 66. They are supposed to switch right across but I have found a few minor differences. The front 76 axle is stock Disc brakes and will remain that way and the rear 76 axle will have the stock drum system removed and a Poser disc "kit" installed. I think there may be a little bend difference going from the Drum to Disc hook up but nothing major and I understand the stock 76 10mm fittings will fit right up to both the front as well as the rear disc's . I'm wondering if after you get the "stock" configurations worked out if you are planning on doing something for the rear Disc's??? What I see of what you are doing looks pretty sanitary!!

LBM

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a '66 FJ40 in Tennessee before. So as far as getting you a complete set, I'd like to say I'll do it but I don't know how I could make the patterns for it. Cruisers that old never made it this far from California. I've been to the Rubithon twice and was amazed at all the early Cruisers. Most of the Cruisers here are '70 and up.

 

[Rainman]

Here's the chart I made to show all of the changes over the years to the brake lines on an FJ40. The Cruiser I saw yesterday actually falls in the tiny slot between 5/70 and 7/70. What an oddball that setup is. What are the odds you can buy those lines from anybody?

I've updated the chart for easier viewing and understanding. This is my first stab at part numbers too. This is not a complete list. When I have all the master patterns made up I'll compete the list. There may be a few lines from earlier trucks that I'm not familiar with too. Feel free to let me know of things you believe are missing.

(old chart has been deleted. Obsolete)

 

[Vae Victus]

Let's see what year @vtgbeemer has. When he reads this thread, he can comment. I know he has a late 60's model. We can talk to the guys down in Huntsville - they've got several folks down there (@roma042987 is coming this way May 2).

@RSHARPfzj80 is in the 80 section - he is in this area. Rance, who else could help with the questions of brake line layouts for the different model years of FJ40s in the Nashville area? (and who else can you direct here?).

Don't forget the guys with 45's, 55's, 60's, etc. You are just talking to the 40 folks right now. A brake line is a brake line (and a fuel line is a... well, that's another size line altogether).

Rainy, you are on this. Don't let this tiger go. Oh, and you didn't address your shipping thoughts asked a few posts back. I think folks will be interested in that.

Nice chart .

You'll have to be a "Vendor" soon.

 

[Rainman]

Slow down there Tonto. Starting this from scratch is tough enough. Considering all the lines it will take to cover the 40s alone is a mountain to climb. I have to get my hands on all these different 40s to be able to create a master line for all 28, or whatever it is, of them. (I'm sure that count was before I included all the lines... and I'm still not there yet.) When I find a way to cover all or at least most of the FJ40s, THEN I can start on the other rides. And that's only if this works. I'd love to become the go-to guy here but it's going to take a little time. I'm close to having another handful of patterns done.

I'm going to update (edit) the post with the chart to the newer one. I've come up with a part number system that should be easy for people to order the right lines. Let me know what you think or if you have better ideas. It's all up for grabs at this point. I'm just trying to be transparent here.

 

[Rainman]

Take this with a grain of salt since you don't know how much of an expert I am or not. Covering several bases:

I would prefer (for my own truck) to use lines that I wouldn't have to bend and straighten up. I'd rather have a union or two if needed. I would use mostly fully threaded nuts and then shoulder nuts into mast cylinder and calipers. At this point I believe I'd rather have steel lines. edit: I will be using the Nicopp lines. No corrosion. Good looking. Strong enough to stay put. SS lines are so hard that fine tuning shorter lines is a real pain. There's not much forgiveness in them. The NiCopp (also called Cunifer) lines are nice and flexible, easy to work with, and look good too but once you've bent them, the hardness changes in the bent areas and you only get one stab at making it straight. After that you get wiggly lines. Oh, and it's pretty expensive too. (Marginal actually.)

All that said and to answer the shipping question, if you would rather have a long line such as the firewall lines bent before packaging and then unbend them yourself, that's fine. I can't promise a new straight line though. (I'm picky like that.) I would bend them with a moderately large radius to make that damage as slight as possible and the easiest to to straighten.

 

[2thdoc]

Would you be opposed to someone picking them up from you if you are relatively close - say a couple hours drive?

 

[Rainman]

Would you be opposed to someone picking them up from you if you are relatively close - say a couple hours drive?

Absolutely not. What's your 40's production date?

 

[motovate]

I'm a ways out - I'd like to think I might get the diff's switch this summer between now and the Monsoons- (I'm in Arizona with no shop just the dirt and rocks and when the monsoons hit - the mud) so here is the link to the rear disc adaption with lots of photos. I think - possibly- the only difference it might be is shortening the lines to work with the rubber lines to the rear discs. Since I'm so far out there is no hurry on my part but I do know there are a lot of rear brake conversions on the FJ 40's and I suspect when the word really gets out you will probably get more requests.


https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rear-disc-brakes.152126/


Thanks - LBM

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a '66 FJ40 in Tennessee before. So as far as getting you a complete set, I'd like to say I'll do it but I don't know how I could make the patterns for it. Cruisers that old never made it this far from California. I've been to the Rubithon twice and was amazed at all the early Cruisers. Most of the Cruisers here are '70 and up.

 

[2thdoc]

Absolutely not. What's your 40's production date?

Production date is 9/75. I've disassembled it down to the frame. Not sure all my lines are OEM, but I have tons of pics of lines and nuts (and everything else) if it would help the shouldered vs full threaded debate.