R151F input shaft lengths, & 5th gear versions compatibility for R452 OD swap? (1 Viewer)

[Chuck78]

I was wondering if the 70 series Cruiser R151F gearbox input shaft lengths were longer in more recent years vs the 1985 or 1986 thru mid 1990's models?

I knew on the R150 & R151 USA model mini trucks 86-95, versus the 96+ Tacoma R150's, that the 86-95 had a shorter input shaft @ around 6.5", and that the Tacoma era R150 had a 1" or so longer input shaft @ 7.5".
The only mini truck R151F models where on the 86-87 22RTE turbo 4cyl pickup trucks, and they definitely had the 6.5" input shaft.

So are the R151F Land Cruiser 70 series input shafts the same, where there would be an earlier shorter version, & a newer slightly longer (by 1"?) version?????


Any help and/or feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[Chuck78]

I am inquiring about this because I plan to use a VW TDI engine and DCS adapter that is specific to mate the VW 1.9 and older engines to a 22R Toyota bellhousing, and I have the 86-87 turbo pickup truck bellhousing that mates the R151 to the 22R.

Alternatively, I could possibly use a Toyota W56 bellhousing that makes the W56 transmission to the 22R engine, and the adapter kit that goes between an R150 / R151 transmission and the W56 bellhousing, that would eat up 3/4' or so of the 1" length difference to help offset the longer shaft length if I had an R151F with the 7.5" input shaft. Then recess the pilot bearing 1/4" deeper into DCS's VW crankshaft to Toyota 22RTE flywheel adapter/spacer.

 

[Chuck78]

Well I did some parts cross-referencing, and although I am not certain, I did dig up some confirmations.

I used the 86-87 USA market 22RTE turbo pickup truck with the R151F transmission for some parts cross-referencing.
It has the R151F with the input shaft length that I am after, & will show me the part # for the compatible countershaft cluster with the
4.313 1st gear & 2.33 2nd gear ratio that I am trying to get.



Input shaft:

ToyoDIY.com

This part # shows that it fits the 86-87 R151F turbo pickup, and all North American market mini trucks through 1995, as well as North American market T100 truck through June of 1998!
I did not know that the T100 also came with these transmissions!

R151F 22RTE turbo pickup 4.313/2.33/1.41 geared countershaft:

ToyoDIY.com

WELL...This shows many models of 1985-2006 70 series Land Cruisers using this gear cluster set:

Japan market:
11/1984-12/1989
TOYOTA LAND CRUISER LJ71,BJ7*
33-05: TRANSMISSION GEAR (MTM)

Japan market:
01/1990-07/2004
TOYOTA LAND CRUISER FJ75,LJ7*,HZJ7*,PZJ7*,KZJ7*
33-05: TRANSMISSION GEAR (MTM)

General markets:
11/1984-12/1989
TOYOTA LAND CRUISER
RJ70,LJ70,BJ7*,HJ75,FJ7*
33-05: TRANSMISSION GEAR (MTM)

General markets, N. America markets:
01/1990-12/2006
TOYOTA LAND CRUISER
FJ,FZJ,HDJ,HJ,HZJ,KZJ,LJ,PZJ,RJ7*
33-05: TRANSMISSION GEAR (MTM)

Europe market:
11/1984-12/1989
TOYOTA LAND CRUISER
RJ7*,LJ7*,BJ7*
33-05: TRANSMISSION GEAR (MTM)

Europe market:
01/1990-07/2001
TOYOTA LAND CRUISER
BJ73,LJ7*,RJ7*,HZJ7*,PZJ7*,KZJ7*





The part that I am uncertain about, is that when searching partsouq.com just for HZJ's, it pulls up so many more versions that do not fall under those particular listings of years for each model, and when pulling up the transfer case diagrams, I clearly see that it has the same pattern to mate to the R151 transmission, so I'm wondering if many of these also came with the R150?


overall I think it is highly likely that the same shorter input shaft is used that I am after a to work with this 22RTE/R151F bellhousing, but there is a slight bit of uncertainty. I did read somewhere that someone on here was saying that after a certain year, the 151 input shaft was longer. The year they quoted approximately, did correspond with the mini truck (Hilux) versus Tacoma changeover, so perhaps they were just confused with the R150 transmission?

 

[AirheadNut]

Just want to get this right, but you’re bolting a TDI to an R150/151? I believe DCS makes an adapter for the V6/R-series bellhousing. Otherwise, generally speaking any pre-95 R150 or R151 should work. The only significant difference between the 150 and 151 in a given year is gearing. I’ve got an R150f in my 1991 Prado and have pulled it apart to swap in a 96+ longer input shaft and used a 5VZ-FE bellhousing and ACME adapter to mate up to my TDI. I’m also in the process of converting the counter 5th gear to a Dyna unit to give a 0.69:1 rather than 0.83:1 ratio.

I could be mistaken on the year, but I think that up to 1999 the HZJ7x had H55f transmissions, and PZJ, LJ, RJ and KZJ7x cruisers had either the R150f or R151f transmissions. After 1999 all 5-speed 70-series had the R transmissions.

 

[Chuck78]

you’re bolting a TDI to an R150/151?
I believe DCS makes an adapter for the V6/R-series bellhousing.

The only advertised adapter they make is for the 22R engines I thought. I did read a rumor on a forum or a comment that they may be working on a V6 Toyota adapter. But would this be for the 88-95 6.5" input 3.0L V6, or the 7.5" input shaft 1996+ 3.4L V6?
Do the backs of the engine blocks have the same pattern at least? I'm not certain they do, but maybe they do but the input shaft difference is all that differs in terms of compatibility?

Otherwise, generally speaking any pre-95 R150 or R151 should work. The only significant difference between the 150 and 151 in a given year is gearing.

Back to the original question - the parts fiches I pulled up indicate that the shorter "pre-'95 R150 pickup" input shaft for the R150/R151 was used through 1998 on T100 trucks, & as long as through 2006 on some 70 series cruiser models, presumably mostly R151F?
This is where I was really hoping for some confirmations or clarification.

I’ve got an R150f in my 1991 Prado and have pulled it apart to swap in a 96+ longer input shaft and used a 5VZ-FE bellhousing and ACME adapter to mate up to my TDI.

Ahhh yes I considered the ACME kit, but the DCS adapters seem more precise (locating dowels) & also will run stock unmodified Toyota flywheel and starter...
I like Jeff@ ACME a lot though & appreciate his service & dedication, so I will be buying other parts from him as needed.

Perhaps if I end up with the wrong input shaft for my bell/adapter setup, you'd have the shorter pre-'95 input shaft for sale?!?

I’m also in the process of converting the counter 5th gear to a Dyna unit to give a 0.69:1 rather than 0.83:1 ratio.

YESSSSS!!!
I have read up on this at great length... I was concerned about the most recent discussions on this topic being 2-3 years old, as I was afraid perhaps these gears would be no longer available for sale by now.

Where did you end up sourcing them from?
Did you need the older version of one of the 2 gears (press fit, large nut retaining gear) or the newer version (slip fit, held on by clip)?

If you could share where these can be obtained, that would be incredibly helpful. These are my only chance of running 31" or 32" tires, 4.56 gears, & have an unloaded highway cruising rpm potential of 2300rpm unless I got the $1800 Mark's splitcase gears that give .92:1 overdriven high range / 2.8(?) low range & that still is only half as effective as the R452 5th gear set. And then I'd be foregoing the ability to run the deeper sets of low range gears with a 1:1 high range...

I could be mistaken on the year, but I think that up to 1999 the HZJ7x had H55f transmissions, and PZJ, LJ, RJ and KZJ7x cruisers had either the R150f or R151f transmissions. After 1999 all 5-speed 70-series had the R transmissions.

 

[AirheadNut]

The only advertised adapter they make is for the 22R engines I thought. I did read a rumor on a forum or a comment that they may be working on a V6 Toyota adapter. But would this be for the 88-95 6.5" input 3.0L V6, or the 7.5" input shaft 1996+ 3.4L V6?
Do the backs of the engine blocks have the same pattern at least? I'm not certain they do, but maybe they do but the input shaft difference is all that differs in terms of compatibility?

Last summer I met one of the guys who works at DCS (their shop is about 30min from where I live) and I asked him a bunch of questions about my swap project. If I remember correctly they do make a V6 adapter, but don't have it on their website. I'd give them a call and ask to make sure. The 3VZ and 5VZ bolt patterns are the same, the difference in bell housings is the same 1" as the input shafts. Any adapter plate should work with either the 3.0 or the 3.4 bell housing/transmission. I was originally going to use a 3.0 bell housing, but opted to swap input shaft and bell housing for the 3.4 versions to gain an extra inch of firewall clearance.

Back to the original question - the parts fiches I pulled up indicate that the shorter "pre-'95 R150 pickup" input shaft for the R150/R151 was used through 1998 on T100 trucks, & as long as through 2006 on some 70 series cruiser models, presumably mostly R151F?
This is where I was really hoping for some confirmations or clarification.

If you click on the individual models on toyodiy it will show the specific model code and date range for each option. The T100 had the shorter 33301-35050 input shaft through 07/1994, likewise the KZJ7x models had it through 03/1996. The longer 33301-35090 part was used in all North American R-series transmissions starting with the 1995 model year (as early as 08/1994 for the T100). The 33301-35090 shows as being discontinued, being replaced by 33301-60130 in 2007.

Ahhh yes I considered the ACME kit, but the DCS adapters seem more precise (locating dowels) & also will run stock unmodified Toyota flywheel and starter...
I like Jeff@ ACME a lot though & appreciate his service & dedication, so I will be buying other parts from him as needed.

Perhaps if I end up with the wrong input shaft for my bell/adapter setup, you'd have the shorter pre-'95 input shaft for sale?!?

Having used the ACME kit, I really like it with one exception: unless you plan on building a custom exhaust manifold and running an aftermarket turbo, it doesn't work. The starter interferes with the exhaust outlet on a stock VNT15 on an ALH. The problems with a lack of locating dowel pins only apply to old kits, and have been dealt with in an updated design. Assuming DCS makes a V6 adapter, I would say go with that and a 3.0 or 3.4 bell housing and sell the 22RTE bell housing, those things are like hens teeth and it will probably fetch a pretty good price. Unfortunately I no longer have a short input shaft or bell housing, I ended up selling them with the first donor transmission I bought. If you want to do the Dyna 5th swap I would highly advocate getting the later '96+ R-series.

YESSSSS!!!
I have read up on this at great length... I was concerned about the most recent discussions on this topic being 2-3 years old, as I was afraid perhaps these gears would be no longer available for sale by now.

Where did you end up sourcing them from?
Did you need the older version of one of the 2 gears (press fit, large nut retaining gear) or the newer version (slip fit, held on by clip)?

If you could share where these can be obtained, that would be incredibly helpful. These are my only chance of running 31" or 32" tires, 4.56 gears, & have an unloaded highway cruising rpm potential of 2300rpm unless I got the $1800 Mark's splitcase gears that give .92:1 overdriven high range / 2.8(?) low range & that still is only half as effective as the R452 5th gear set. And then I'd be foregoing the ability to run the deeper sets of low range gears with a 1:1 high range...

I have the 3rd (and hopefully final) shipment of transmission parts to finish up this swap on the way from Japan. When they arrive in a couple weeks time I will be able to put the transmission back together and will do a writeup on the swap. With my early transmission it has been a pain figuring out what pieces are needed, since the journal bearing size for the counter 5th was one of the things that changed in 1995, and the earlier gears are discontinued. With a later 96+ transmission I think it would be much easier. There will be a lot of photos and part numbers coming!

 

[roscoFJ73]

So are the R151F Land Cruiser 70 series input shafts the same, where there would be an earlier shorter version, & a newer slightly longer (by 1"?) version?????

The 78/79 series R151F 1HZ input shafts would all be the same length. In the parts manual they look entirely different to shaft used on the 1KZ T. I saw at least 3 part numbers but there are probably more. The R151F was also used in the 90 series Prado

 

[AirheadNut]

The 78/79 series R151F 1HZ input shafts would all be the same length. In the parts manual they look entirely different to shaft used on the 1KZ T. I saw at least 3 part numbers but there are probably more. The R151F was also used in the 90 series Prado

The input shaft in the KZJ7x is 33301-35050, the shorter early shaft. The one in the HZJ78/79 appears to be 33301-35090, the same part number as the '96+ US version, which has been superseded by 33301-60130.

 

[Chuck78]

Aha...
Well it seems as if I was just looking at those parts fiche cross references wrong, or rather not looking at them fully by clicking on the individual models to see that a specific part usage date range is not specified until clicking the link...

So it seems as if all of the transmission options that I have available likely use the later longer input shaft.

I have available a 2003(?) HZJ79 R151F trans that was making clunking or grinding noises in several gears, And also have been offered a 1995 KZJ70 R150F + splitcase transfer case with vacuum shift for front output 4wd. $300+ shipping for the noisy/needing rebuilt R151F, $750 for the 150,000mi R150F/splitcase KZJ70 setup.

I want to do the R452 overdrive gear swap, and it seems as if 1 of the 2 O.D. gears is different for the earlier model transmissions that have a large nut retaining it, versus the later style which use a retainer clip. the later style gear is much more easily available and costs only $100 instead of $230, and the $230 earlier style gear for the transmissions that use a nut to hold on the overdrive gear are not often in stock...
I always thought that the style that uses the nut to hold on gear was much stronger, as I have read of many AX15 owners and popping the gear off of the end of the shaft. But I believe there was some modification to fix that, some sort of collar that bolts on instead of just relying on a retainer clip.

Anyhow, it is cheaper and will be more likely to be able to source the R452 overdrive gears for a 0.698:1 overdrive ratio if I use the later style transmission. The later style also has some larger bearings in it than the earlier style.

I have 2 of the rare 22RTE turbo pickup truck R151F bellhousings that I had stockpiled for this project since diesel conversion specialists only advertised their adapter from the VW ALH engine to the 22R style bellhousing. I emailed them to ask about a Toyota V6 adapter option, but have heard no reply. I also have not seen a single 3.0 or 3.4 Toyota R150 bellhousing come up for sale on eBay, so hopefully I will be able to find one on here if I were to keep the longer input shaft and use the v6 bellhousings.

Otherwise I will just keep the 22RTE turbo R151F bellhousings and swap the input shaft to an earlier version.


As long as I can figure out how to convert the vacuum front output 4-wheel-drive shift mechanism to a manual twin-stick setup, I will probably buy both transmissions just to have them around for spare parts. They will not be any easier to find in 15 years, I always like to have spares for my older vehicles...

 

[AirheadNut]

Another thing to consider is what you want for gearing. The HZJ R151 would be easy to do the Dyna 5th, but has lower 1st and 2nd. The KZJ R150 would be a little more involved with a 5th gear swap, but has better 1st and 2nd ratios for daily driving IMO. My Prado has stock 4.88 gears and an R150, and I found 1st to be plenty low. If you’re going to be doing a lot of crawling it’s a different story. Also, the KZJ70 gearbox should have the shorter input shaft that will work with your 22RTE bellhousing.

The big issue with the Dyna 5th gear on a pre 95 transmission is that the journal bearing size changed from 28 mm to 30mm and the old 28mm gear is NLA from what I can tell. I ended up buying a used post 95 transmission and swapping the counter shaft to fit a 30mm gear. My parts are supposed to arrive by the end of the month, so I’ll be able to confirm everything fits. The only thing that I’m not sure about at this point is getting the shift fork to line up with the slider hub.

 

[AirheadNut]

Also, Cruiser Outfitters @cruiseroutfit make a kit to convert from vacuum shift to manual. Apparently it is possible to go twin stick too.

 

[Chuck78]

Yes they just came out with that vacuum to manual shift kit late last year, I had just replied to a thread on here somewhere about that. And there are two different twin-stick kits available.

As far as the Dyna 5th gear swap, the older version is occasionally available, but stock is always low, and it costs $230 US versus $100 us for the newer version.

NOW TO THROW ANOTHER VARIABLE INTO THE MIX...
another member on here finally got back to me on the transmission and transfer case he offered up to me out of a 2013 79 series. He didn't say what engine it was mated to(I assume probably a 1HZ, HZJ79?), but the speedometer is in kilometers, so at least I have an idea that it was probably a European market version? Canadian? Japanese? Australian?
I'm not sure how he got something so new imported into the US, however! He is upgrading it to an H151 here shortly, and offered the 49k mile original R151F + splitcase up for grabs to me.
I was just uncertain if this Dyna/Hino R452 0.698:1 OD 5th gear swap would even work on the newer versions, I was not sure if they were changed significantly????

 

[Chuck78]

Hmmmm.....
About the Dyna 5th gears swap onto the 12/2013 79 series....
2013 J79 series R151F:

This transmission offered up to me now with only 40 some thousand miles and only 6 years old, has even a newer revision of the 5th gear set... versus the $300 R151F core that needs rebuilt from 2003 79 series that I was also offered, the part numbers are 1 digit higher and then the previous version. I wonder what revisions took place there? I don't know how much luck I will have trying to pull up photos of those gears...
I am left wondering if the Dyna/Hino 5th .698:1 OD gears will even be compatible with this newest version?

And the 2003 $300 core/for parts needimg rebuilt R151F uses a countershaft gear that is yet another generation prior, available '98-2010, 10 & 11 numbers lower than the one in the screenshot above, so I am wondering if the second to last digit being different implies a completely different design? Whereas perhaps the newer version I was referencing above is just a minor revision and is backwards compatible with the one that is just one digit off?
I believe the Hino / Dyna truck R452 transmission versions in question are both a fair bit older than these newest R151's, so I am really questioning the compatibility with the shift forks, synchronizers, etc. Any tips?
2003 J79 series R151F:

A 6-year-old transmission with only 40,000 some miles would definitely be very nice to have! But perhaps I am best off buying the 95 150 and transfer case, and the 03 151, and combining transmissions during the rebuild, as this seems I would without a doubt be able to use the R452 gears that I know to look for...?????
There was one thread that I looked at on here or pirate just recently that showed three different versions of the fifth counter gear as far as the clutch forks or synchros were concerned. I will have to revisit that.

 

[Chuck78]

Comparing the 5th countershaft gears (with intetest to the Hino/Dyna R452 gear swap), the version that we absolutely no is not compatible with the 96 + versions has a completely, completely different part number then all of the other ones that I have been questioning, so perhaps all of the newer ones being very similar part numbers within 1, 10, 11 digits of each other, are all compatible?

The '86 22RTE turbo truck R151F vs 95 KZJ70 R150F 5th gears:

 

[Chuck78]

From Pirate4x4:

Toyota R series gearbox - R150 / R151 - R452 Dyna 5th...

www.pirate4x4.com

Unless there is a newer R452 counter gear version than what this person had, it looks like the newest R151 versions may not be able to run this older overdrive gear from the more recent versions of the R452?


perhaps I am best off buying the 95 r150, and the 03 r151, as then I will have both styles of countershaft gear, and both lengths of input gears...build 1 trans out of 2 with whatever parts assortment I need in terms of countershaft, gear clusters, & input shaft lengths...


I'm swapping engines to a VW ALH 1.9TDI, whose stock peak torque was 1800-2300rpm... Moved slightly higher with the larger GT2052 turbo that I will be running. 2300rpm highway cruising at 70mph would be pretty amazing...
The deeper 1st will really help out offroad, but will also help the turbo engine since I am going to a bigger than stock turbo, helping my rig get going from a stop on the street (similar to why this 1st gear was used on the little 2.4L 22RTE turbo pickups 86-87 USA models...). The other big reason on the street-driving side for me wanting the 151 is that the 2nd gear ratio is slightly deeper (higher numerically), which will really help in start and stop traffic, from having to constantly shift back down into first gear when rolling to near a stop at low speeds but not stopping completely.
The confirmation of this being a definite perk is confirmed by the AX15 having the same first gear as the R150, but having the same second gear as the R151...

 

[joekatana]

You might want to ask both sellers of the hzj79 transmissions if they came off cruisers that where used in any mining operation , minor detail but big difference in wear and tear.

 

[Chuck78]

Well the 95 KZJ70 R150 might be my best match for now, as it seems that the low miles 2013 model may be an extensive search with not guaranteed results to find the overdrive 5th gear that I was looking for...at least in a version that would be compatible with the newest R151's. Too bad, as the newer ones are probably the most refined and best design...
And the noisy 2003 HZJ79 R151, perhaps I could at least get the gears out of it to swap into the 95...


The R452 OD 5th gear swap into an R150/R151 will work out to be .69:1, vs .83:1 in the R150 & R151. Coincidentally, the gear ratio with the R452 5th gears installed natively into the R452 is actually the same as the 150/151 with their native 5th gears, at .83:1. The difference is in the cluster ratio gearing. I think I read a conversation a while back stating that the cluster gears were all the same for each individual gear 1st 2nd and 3rd between the 452 & the 151, but the overall cluster ratio was different (I believe this is the gear on the input shaft and the end gear on the counter shaft that is always spinning, not any of the 1st through 5th drive gears), and that is why this yields completely different gear ratios despite using the same or similar tooth counts everywhere else 1-4. the inverse is true with the overdrive, both transmissions have the same final overdrive ratio, but use different tooth counts and different cluster gear ratios to achieve that. So this is why putting the R154 5th gears into a 150 or 151 will give you a .99:1 overdrive 5th, even though it is a very desirable lower numerical gear than the 150/151 when installed in the matched 154 gear sets. It's all about the cluster ratio in relation to the tooth counts, not just what the final ratio of the transmission is per gear.


The 452 gears in a 150 or 151 will result in a 500rpm drop and highway cruising RPM with my setup. 4.56 diffs, 30.6" tires, 1:1 high range.


please correct me if I was slightly mistaken on how the cluster gear ratio is set up.

 

[Chuck78]

Ahhh... "Not Currently Available," BUT...
Safari Snorkel out of Australia were offering a "Taller 5th gear set" for the R151 transmissions in the past...
The 570rpm drop they advertise is nearly identical to what I calculated the Dyna/Hino R452 gears would give me if I swapped them in. I wonder if Safari Snorkel were just reselling Toyota OEM gears?

The best thing to come out of this "Not Currently Available" setup is that they advertise it to fit all gen 2 & gen 3 70 series - '07+ as well as '96(?)-'06, & '98-'08 100/105 series Cruisers...
So does that mean that the later style R452 gears are compatible with ALL '96+ R150F's & R151F's?

 

[GreaseMonkeyJP]

I did the R452 5th gear swap in an early R151 and I would have to say it is one of my favorite modifications so far as it really makes a huge difference on Highway performance.

I did have some input shaft mismatches but if you are doing a rebuild the input shaft swap is the easiest part and they are easy to get. Just make sure that you have the right one before you start to put it all back together.

 

[Chuck78]

Okay so it seems as if the newer R-series transmissions will be a bit more of a gamble trying to do the R452 5th gear 0.695:1 OD ratio swap in, as I am guessing around the year 2000 approximately, things got a little more complicated with different versions of the fifth countershaft gear in terms of splines and synchronizer parts that mount into the gear... The earlier versions of the R150 / R151 transmission and the R452 transmissions were a lot more similar, but more recent model years it seems as if the technology was not updated side by side.
Hence when searching for the R452 gear swap, you will find many forum posts about people having incompatibility problems.
I would be willing to bet that this can be a direct swap, but no one has the info at this point in time as to what exact part number of Dyna R452 5th counter gear will work for early 2000's, and late 2000's, early 2010's R150/R151 gear boxes. Also, when searching parts fiches, it is important to know that some of these Hino / Dyna trucks used the R451 and R453 gearboxes...
I have never seen the gear ratios listed for the R453, but the R451 has the same gear ratios as the R151. The R452 , although the gear tooth counts on first second and third are the same as the R151, it has completely different final gear ratios due to the cluster ratio being completely different with different tooth counts on the cluster gear pair. This difference is why a transmission that had a .83 overdrive, same as the R151, can donate its overdrive gears to the R151 to yield a 0.695: 1 ratio 5th installed in the R150/R151.
so if trying to research this further, one needs to be certain they are looking at a parts schematic that has the R452 transmission, not the R451 or R453.

Toyota R series gearbox - R150 / R151 - R452 Dyna 5th...

www.pirate4x4.com

https://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34706

That Safari Snorkel taller / higher speed 5th gear swap kit would have been very nice to have, but apparently it has been out of production for a while. Maybe six years?