R151F input shaft lengths, & 5th gear versions compatibility for R452 OD swap?

[malteser]

About a year ago I bought an early R151 to replace my stock G52 and while searching online for rebuilding my box I came across this mod and got super excited about it, until suddenly the counter gear I needed was unavailable everywhere. Literally gone from being available to buy (but I'm still making sure its what I need) to not available ever again. Quite a bummer.

I was still taking my box apart to rebuild it so I kept looking online at any other possible options I could do while its open. While searching I came across this Jeep guy who was swapping over an R151 cluster shaft and 1st gear into his AX15, so I thought maybe their 5th gear is useful to us. 5th gear on the AX15 is .79 vs the .836 of the R151, so that's still a gain. I looked for the 5th main and counter gear and they looked pretty identical to the R151 ones so I bought them cos they were relatively cheap. When they arrived I noticed the main gear was slightly different, but could be easily machined to fit. All fit properly and working as should be on bench, but I haven't installed the gearbox yet. It should technically drop my revs by 200, and living on an island where I use fifth gear alot at low revs, I'm thinking this wasn't a bad idea after all, since if I had done the R452 swap I probably would've ended not being able to use 5th gear properly, unless I'm going on an overland trip - which is why I wanted this mod.

 

[malteser]

Oh bdw the quoted 200rpm drop is from my current G52 (0.85 fifth gear ratio), so that would be a little less for the R151

 

[Chuck78]

I went through the part numbers the other day on several parts websites to get an idea of what I would be spending if none of the synchronizer components from the R151F that will be going into my project would work on the R452 gears. It will be quite spendy, but in the long-term, should be well worth it in terms of engine wear and fuel economy gains when running an efficient small turbodiesel engine that really starts building lots of boost at 2100rpm...

This is what I've come up with tentatively:

I think I might add another few small pocket change hardware parts,
diagram # 33349C, Pin for 5th Gear Thrust Washer - 90250-05026
diagram # 33421R, RING, SHAFT SNAP(FOR COUNTER GEAR REAR) - 90520-22017
diagram # 33421R, RING, SHAFT SNAP(FOR COUNTER GEAR REAR) - 90520-22018


I should also note that I am uncertain what the differences are between the R452 5th countershaft gear part numbers 33046-25020, -25021, and -25030... Either -25021 or -25030 seemed to be the most current perhaps? Both came into the parts listings in 2001 and 2003 depending on market/model. The -25020 appeared starting with 1996 listings, so obviously is the older out of date version.


I was mostly concerned with what the differences were between that the -25021, and the -25030 (just a revision? Or is -25021 out of an R451 or R453 with different gear ratios?). The -25020 or the -25030, may or may not be available. The -25021 was significantly more money than the -25030 which was potentially more readily available, but I had the -25021 here on my quote in the name of research, to see if it was more compatible with the newer versions of the syncro components in the late model Land Cruiser R151F's... Hopefully it is not an R451 or R453 gear! The parts fiches that show the breakdowns only show that it is applicable for "R451, 452, 453" and do not list which exact transmission the individual specific part number pertains to!!! Speculation, a $170 gamble if attempting to purchase the 33046-25021!


Amayama lists the -25021 as being 90% likely to be available, and -25030 as being 100% likely to be available. Funny, as Partsouq.com lists 33046-25020 and 33046-25021 both as "not available for purchase," and does not even recognize the 33046-25030 part number! So perhaps Amayama's "90% likely to be available" could be interpreted as "90% UNlikely to be available?"


(Also, I added some spares of the nickel and dime small parts - syncro keys and retainer springs, just in case... shipping from Japan would be exponentially more than the cost of those pieces if I lost or broke one!)

 

[Chuck78]

And I was checking into upgrades from MarlinCrawler.com - they make billet shift forks for the R-series, upgraded heavy duty wear-resistant bearing retainer plates, shifter seat and socket upgrades, and a high strength chromoly thrust washer upgrade. The 1st-2nd shift fork I believe is the real problematic one that often has pieces fragmented off of it when torn down for rebuilds, but they also have a 3rd-4th revised/strengthened design billet shift fork available as well. The 5th gear shift for they sell only works on the earliest of R150/R151, 1986-1991 if I recall correctly. Not even the entirety of the early/pre-'95.5 run.

Unfortunately, Marlin Crawler only offer their complete rebuild kits for the R series for just the early models. Sourcing a full kit will require ensuring that they use high quality bearings, or just ordering all of the individual parts from Toyota. Cobra Transmission seems to have several different kits available for different versions of the R series, some listing different dimensional bearing sizes etc, and others being the same applications but a higher end version that sells for double the price. I have never dealt with them, but their website descriptions are very very brief to say the least, leaving A LOT to be desired as to what the differences in the quality of the bearings and other parts would be.







.

 

[Chuck78]

Lastly, looking at these very large images, leaves me to wonder if the entire syncronizer hub (?) portion of the 5th countershaft gear presses off and can be swapped with the assembly in most or all of the 1996-ish and later R151F applications?????? This would fix all of the problems in question, but I have not seen it discussed... Will have to dig.

 

[Chuck78]

One additional tidbit, looking up the part numbers for the 5th countershaft gear, searching for images, I stumbled upon this Russian parts website that listed some additional info:
Шестерня 5 передачи большая 33046-25020, 33046-25021 Toyota DYNA тойота. Контрактная - Автозапчасти в Красноярске

Google Translated version to English:
Google Translate

Which says:
Replacement numbers: 33046-35100 33046-35101 33046-25021 33046-25020
as if all of those numbers were compatible.

Well I looked up where this -35100 and -35101 were used... KDY221,231,251,261, etc with the 1KD diesel... NOT the 5L diesel that I have seen in Toyota Dyna truck brochures as typically always being mated to the R452 trans in question. So I looked up these models, and found one for sale with a trim tag photo - specifies a different trans altogether - the R351!!!! Also an R-series, but the case style is a 3, not a 1 or a 4 as we are dealing with. Also a 5 speed, hence the 5 in the middle of the designation, and the kicker - the 1 at the end designates gear ratios - same gears as the R151, not the R452 "2" designation gears. This is a 12/2013 model:

Everything that I could cross reference in terms of applications for the 33046-25021 version of the 5th countershaft gear seems to point me directly back to applications originally listed for the 3046-25020, which is the older version based on it appearing starting in 1996+, seeming to have been superseded by the 33046-25021 and presumably the 33046-25030

EDIT - looking up 33046-25030 applications also points me back to parts fiches that actually list the 33046-25020, so I believe the 33046-25021 and -25030 are likely just different revisions of the exact same gear????? Who knows if the syncro hub components on these two versions are compatible or revised/superseded as an assembly????? This remains quite unclear.





Here are a few body/trim tags that show what we are looking for, several the Toyota ToyoAce LY230 models as well as the Toyota Dyna trucks. Notice all have the 5L diesel engine (some with the 1TR diesel) and notate R452 trans...

 

[RBxxx]

Well Chuck, Amayama just shipped my parts this am, will report back.

 

[Chuck78]

Well Chuck, Amayama just shipped my parts this am, will report back.

EXCELLENT!!!!


I did find some other additional info just now as to the superseding or multiple comparable part numbers, when looking at the parts fiche listings for a TRY230 model truck, multiple part numbers listed under same model, with years used shown!
From http://jp-carparts.com/lexus/partlist.php?maker=toyota&type=731170&cartype=155&fig=3305 :

Perhaps I should start trying to use that website for the most accurate cross referencing speculation for our needs?

 

[Chuck78]

One note to retrofitting newer model transmissions... A tech note from Safari Systems, who previously were manufacturing aftermarket 5th gears in this ratio for R150/R151 trannies:


From this thread:
R151F/HZJ78: More Overdrive?

One final note from Safari "...Toyota made a change to the R151F transmission at some stage in 2011 on the Wide-Nose HZJ70 Landcruisers, which was incompatible with our 5th gear set. We could not pinpoint which countries/regions this effected, or exactly when the change came into effect." You can check out ToyoDIY for compatibility.

Well I guess that rules out me buying a nice condition 6-year old 40,000 mile complete R151F + transfer case from a 2013 model 79 series... I would imagine it was some sort of shift fork mod? If just syncro hub changes as we have seen many revisions of, then there is still hope.

A 2008 or 2009 HZJ79 mine truck part-out R151F & transfer case deal has come my way. It looks pretty crusty, covered in ash or limestone dust powder caked on and exposed steel parts rusted, but the price is right! It will get a full rebuild, R452 5th gear swap if I can make that happen (if not, AX15 modified 5th or else buy a 2003 HZJ79 R151F that was noisy & was pulled, no t-case though, & see if the R4525th swaps into that!), & possibly input shaft swap to the shorter version if I decide I need it for clutch fork clearance or firewall/tunnel clearance vs the 3.0/3.4L V6 bellhousing. I have two R151F 22RTEC turbo pickup bellhousings, but those could be sold to pay for the $$$ adapter if I could get the cheaper more commonly available V6 R150 Tacoma etc bell...

 

[RBxxx]

Photos added UPDATE

The below part numbers were used to fit the R452 5th gear to my '06 R151f transmission. As pictured earlier in this thread my trans has the snap ring on the counter shaft as newer R transmssions have. Note: I ordered all the other parts because the of the differences noted in various threads on various years.

I believe the below parts will fit the snap ring R transmission variants.

33394-35040 KEY, SYNCHROMESH SHIFTING, NO.3 x3
90364-30009 Split BEARING (FOR COUNTER 5TH GEAR)
33369-35011 RING, SYNCHRONIZER, NO.3
33336-25030 GEAR small
33046-25030 GEAR counter
33392-14020 FASTENER big spring for dogs x2
33395-35041 GEAR hub ring
33318-35050 GEAR counter shaft end

This is the 2006 R151f 5th gear counter and supporting parts(i left the bearing out if the pic )

here we have the R452 5th gear counter with supporting parts compared to the R151 (R452 is closest)
Note: I only ordered one syncro key, you need three, most sites show 3 but price is for 1. So I have more on order. I also need to order a second spring to hold the syncro keys. The C-Clips that hold the 5th gear in place are actually different thicknesses, so I have a few sizes on order to complete the install. Not sure how much this matters but at .62¢ I'll see if I can fit the proper size.

Fitted, sorta, need to press on after I get the other syncro keys

Short story.... order all the parts that I show above, the 5th gears and syncro styles have changed over the years. I believe this mod is also possible with the nut style R150 transmissions but I haven't tried to mount this on my '93 R150.

Please be aware, as of this post, I have not driven the vehicle to make sure all parts work as intended....stay tuned.

 

[Chuck78]

GREAT WORK SO FAR, RB!


I sealed a deal with a Canadian gentleman on the forums who has/is parting out a few HZJ79 mining trucks with R151F's, and should have a 43,000km transmission being shipped here and arriving next week hopefully! So it is time to really put a move on getting the proper OD gears. Best to do mods before doing the big swap to turbodiesel and R151F, rather than pulling it down the road... I may upgrade the shift forks for 1-2 & 3-4 as well while it is apart, and all seals. Probably the chromoly thrust washer kit from MarlinCrawler.com as well, unless it involves pressing off bearings that check out as good as new for now.

The C-Clips that hold the 5th gear in place are actually different thicknesses, so I have a few sizes on order to complete the install. Not sure how much this matters but at .62¢ I'll see if I can fit the proper size.

Oh really? Care to share more info on this? Are you saying that there are different C-clips available throughout the years, and you ordered an assortment? Or is there a selection of clips based on assembly tolerances and/or machining tolerances?

Do you have a list or part numbers for us?

Also, this was for a 2006 R151F, is that correct? From what model truck/Land Cruiser?
I wonder if there are many differences between that and a 2008 HZJ79 Land Cruiser R151F...??? (what I will be installing this mod in)
The HZJ79 R151F parts fiches show 1999-2001/2004/2007 depending on sub-model, then some show 2007-______, and some show 2012-2016... so it is possible that there are 2 or 3 variants of these transmissions that may affect the 5th gear swapping...
Safari Systems who formerly manufactured an aftermarket 5th gear swap in this ratio, told an inquiring customer (inquiring about having them make a new batch of these gears) that somewhere in 2011, they noted that there was a change in the transmissions on certain models in their primary market that made the Safari gear swap no longer fit those newer models. This is why I avoided buying a nicer cleaner low miles/kilometers December 2013 R151F and transfer case...
Worst case, I get this and buy a 2003 HZJ79 R151F transmission "core, sold for parts/rebuild only" that was available to me, in order to make this swap work...



EDIT - I looked further into the parts fiches comparing the most critical of components, and it appears that 08/1999 - 05/2010 seem to share the same "GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT 5TH," "SLEEVE, TRANSMISSION HUB, NO.3," AND "PIECE, GEAR SPLINE, NO.5" - although the smaller syncro parts look to be different on the drawings (the main parts are the same, so that should cover any concerns of compatibility there. My primary concern was that the shift fork design may have changed, and the "SLEEVE, TRANSMISSION HUB, NO.3" piece is what the shift fork engages into, so if that is the same, and these parts worked for RB, then we are good for at least these dates listed 8/1999-5/2010, and I suspect backwards to 1996 - but please verify this on your own if you have a 1995.5-1999 model transmission
(edit again, I verified this back through 1995-2004 Toyota Tacoma R150's for the shift hub sleeve, as well as the shift fork. Some T100 models show it in use prior to that even, 1992-1994 if I recall correctly?)

EDIT AGAIN! -
R151F 5th gear shift forks list different part numbers:
33230-35010 - 8.1999-8.2003
33230-35011 - 8.2003-1.2007, & 1.2007-1.2015
33230-35012 - 1.2015-8.2016, 8.2016-______ (current?)

vs R151F 5th gear "sleeve, transmission hub, No.3"
33395-35031 - 8.1999-1.2007, 1.2007-5.2010
33395-60050 - 5.2010-8.2016, 8.2016-______


The hub for the first two part numbers of shift forks is the same there through 2010, although the shift fork was used through 2015 with a different hub - hence they are likely just upgraded revisions at least that far forward. The dates overlapping and not changing shift forks and shift fork gear slider hub no.3 simultaneously should tell is that these are all just revisions of one another with slight upgrades, and most likely no major changes were made.



However on a lesser side note, Safari Systems who formerly manufactured an aftermarket 5th gear swap in this ratio, told an inquiring customer (inquiring about having them make a new batch of these gears) that somewhere in 2011, they noted that there was a change in the transmissions on certain models in their primary market that made the Safari gear swap no longer fit those newer models. This is why I avoided buying a nicer cleaner low miles/kilometers December 2013 R151F and transfer case...

Worst case, I get this and buy a 2003 HZJ79 R151F transmission "core, sold for parts/rebuild only" that was available to me, in order to make this swap work...


I have all these parts in my shopping cart at Amayama Trading Company currently, waiting to pull the trigger. EDIT - RB says that not all parts were in stock through Amayama, so that he had to order some through Partsouq as well... I suppose I shall see once I place my Amayama order, what they come back telling me they do not have in stock!

 

[Chuck78]

The C-Clips that hold the 5th gear in place are actually different thicknesses, so I have a few sizes on order to complete the install. Not sure how much this matters but at .62¢ I'll see if I can fit the proper size.

Aha... Looking at the HZJ79 1999-2007 Gear, MTM parts fiches, I see...

Number	Note
There are several options available for your car, pick the correct one.
90520-22016	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=2.85,MARK A
90520-22017	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=2.90,MARK B
90520-22018	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=2.95,MARK C
90520-22019	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=3.00,MARK D
90520-22020	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=3.05,MARK E
90520-22021	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=3.10,MARK F
90520-22022	HZJ71,78..STD;HZJ79..GCC,GEN;HZJ79..ARL..IV T=3.15,MARK G

and 2007-______ parts fiches:

Number	Note
There are several options available for your car, pick the correct one.
90520-22016	HZJ7# T=2.85,MARK A
90520-22017	HZJ7# T=2.90,MARK B
90520-22018	HZJ7# T=2.95,MARK C
90520-22019	HZJ7# T=3.00,MARK D
90520-22020	HZJ7# T=3.05,MARK E
90520-22021	HZJ7# T=3.10,MARK F
90520-22022	HZJ7# T=3.15,MARK G
90520-33021	HZJ7# T=1.00,NO.2

 

[RBxxx]

yep all the c-clips are the same for those transmissions. This and the bearing under the 5th gear are the same as well. Toyota changed the sycnro setup over the years and that is where the incompatibility comes in, which is why i said get ALL the parts that touch the gear.
my 93 R150 5th Gear is held on by a nut, and the sycro is different then the 06 R151 which is held on by a c-clip like the R452 but the syncro is different as well. i only used Toyodiy parts fiche for my research and searched part numbers to find the superseded PNs to purchase. This is why i couldn't get all the parts from amayama.

 

[Chuck78]

Here's my current shopping cart - there are two parts there, quantity 4, that actually are shown as only needing 3 of the syncro keys, and 2 of the springs, but I ordered extras since they are so cheap and they are small parts that I could conceivably lose fairly easily...
Also the significantly thinner (1.0mm?) 90520-33021 clip ("washer") is not likely needed for my application or most of yours other than 2016-newer, but I put it in there anyways as it is a very minimal cost, just in case.
Note the message that pops up when holding the mouse over the quantity available, "Supply possibility - 90%" or something to that affect... BUT - I do not believe that partsouq even has listings for a lot of the R452-specific parts. So as RB said, it is necessary to order from multiple sources if going with either of these suppliers. Megazip was higher prices even with a discount code, but I think they will have everything listed at least.

.

 

[RBxxx]

When I ordered my parts partsouq didn’t have the gears. That’s why I said double check.
Good stuff!!!!

 

[RBxxx]

Pre 95 R150f stock 5th gear with reverse removed, you can see the syncro and three keys are very similar to the R452 setup. Infact I reused one of the retaining springs but the keys are different.

Shift Hub/Ring with keys and spring

Full 5th gear

I discovered that the reverse gear is different then the R452, as I could not interchange them to the R151f.
Now I have hit a snag...
While assembling the R452 reverse gear it seems to be bottoming out and i cannot insert the c-clip, and I did not measure it before hand.....ARGH!!!

 

[RBxxx]

Installed R452 5th gear on a 2006 R151f transmission!!!!

and the rest of the mess, two R1FA transfer cases Inchworm Doubler adapter and an Inchworm R150 to R1FA adapter.
Replacing a few bearings while I'm in there. Can't wait for lo-lo behind an idling grease burner.

 

[Chuck78]

So what was the issue with the R452 reverse gear, anyhow? I was not aware that you were doing anything with the R452 reverse gear in regards to the overdrive gear upgrade, unless perhaps you wanted a deeper ratio in reverse as well?

The R452 reverse gear has nothing to do with swapping the R452 overdrive gears into an R151F, does it?

So you were 100% successful in the overdrive gear swap, but a separate project with the reverse gear did not work out?








I finally got my R151F and transfer case out of a 2008 HZJ79 mining truck Land Cruiser pickup... Only 40,000 km, that's like 25,000 miles! A lot of those mining trucks had transmissions modified to lock out the top gears, 4th and 5th, to limit the speeds.

This one the seller sent me with the note that I wouldn't have to do any work on this one because it did not have those gears disabled, all 5 gears were operational...

Turns out I will have to tear it apart for more than just the overdrive swap, in order to replace the 4 wheel drive selector shafts for hi-low & front output 4wd engagement, as they were very rusty and will not hold back the gear oil on the seals like that...

Why?

Because on this particular mining truck, they just removed the 4wd shifter after putting it into 4wd low (shifter looks like brand new, while the transmission is very corroded and rusty from industrial use), and the shifter mounting hole was filled with RTV silicone! Permanent 4wd low range!



Thanks to Mud member Tom in Canada for the sale.

 

[RBxxx]

So what was the issue with the R452 reverse gear, anyhow? I was not aware that you were doing anything with the R452 reverse gear in regards to the overdrive gear upgrade, unless perhaps you wanted a deeper ratio in reverse as well?
The R452 reverse gear has nothing to do with the R452 overdrive years into an R151F, does it?
So you were 100% successful in the overdrive gear swap, but a separate project with the reverse gear did not work out?

Maybe I am not explaining correctly or have some terminology screwed up when referring to the 5th counter gear.
I bought 3 gears total, the small output shaft gear, the large counter gear, and the gear that goes on the end of the counter gear (i think I called that reverse which is wrong). ALL these and ALL the synros and bearings will need to be purchased for a successful install. I would say this is 100% successful but I haven't road tested yet..... will be a few months before the diesel swap is complete.

 

[Chuck78]

I discovered that the reverse gear is different then the R452, as I could not interchange them to the R151f.
Now I have hit a snag...
While assembling the R452 reverse gear it seems to be bottoming out and i cannot insert the c-clip, and I did not measure it before hand.....ARGH!!!

So what then was the problem that you were talking about here?

Did you did end up using the R452 gear that goes on the end of the synchronizer assembly?

What was the solution?

THANKS!