Use one these calculators to see how much the voltage drops, the farther you get from the source (battery).
I prefer jumper cables.
Voltage Drop Calculator
Puma 12V Compressor
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Use one these calculators to see how much the voltage drops, the farther you get from the source (battery).
I prefer jumper cables.
Voltage Drop Calculator
Hey Jack. Welcome to the Puma world. The easiest and best way to wire your Puma is to start with a 50A Anderson plug/connector on the compressor end makes joining #10 out of the compressor to larger wires easy and solid. From there you can hard wire from the battery, i suggest #4 for minimal voltage drop with room for some expansion. Jumper cables is another cost effective way or #6 outdoor landscaping cable available at the orange or blue store.
Puma shuts off at +50amps and starts at ~30amps
I also use a throttle lock to increase voltage and amperage when airing up, definitely makes a difference when your Puma see's 13.5 volts.
Phil, your posts were the primary reason I ended up with a PUMA. I think you have demonstrated their reliability by providing a lot of information about how you use it - instead of "it aired up my tires" or "I blew the engine on it one day cause it got hot." I have no doubt the MV50 or MV90 (or pick your poison) would work for my purposes, but figure this PUMA would be well used for many years to come. Thanks for spending $235 of my hard earned dollars
If I understand this correctly, this is what I'll need for a portable connection:
-One pair of Anderson 50 amp connectors
(https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Pow...644&sr=8-6&keywords=anderson+50+amp+connector)
-#4 jumper cables (example below - clearly don't need 20 foot for a portable option)
(https://www.amazon.com/CARTMAN-BC04...8699916&sr=8-3&keywords=4+gauge+jumper+cables)
-Is a relay or fuse really needed if keeping it portable?
If I decide to wire for permanent connection:
-One pair of Anderson 50 amp connectors (link above)
-#4 jumper cables (link above) - the modification would be to both the ends so I can connect directly to battery and ditch the clamps
-Do I need any sort of in-line relay with this?
I'm guessing from there, cut and strip the ends from the PUMA so they'll accept the the Anderson connectors. Same goes for the jumper cables.
That sound right? Total newb when it comes to electrical work.
As of right now, I'm thinking I'm going to keep it portable - until I decide to add an air locker, at which point I will revisit the plumbing with a regulator.
Jack
Finished my install a while back and have used it a couple times since. L.O.V.E. this set up!! Mine's a little weird because I bought the pump second hand already divorced, some fittings and manifold already included, but no tank. I got a Viair 2 gallon tank mounted under my bed. And, heck, if you're going to do air, why not toss a horn in there too. >
I made a couple of mistakes along the way learn from me!
1st mistake: Worried too much about heat.
My pump is mounted under the hood of my Tacoma. The tank and most of the plumbing is under the bed. Running the plumbing down the frame rail past the exhaust, I was sure I would cook my hoses and wires. I spent about a month trying to find a heat shield that would fit and not cost a fortune. I finally decided to install first and see what melted. (The shields I found cost WAY more than the hoses.) Turns out I had nothing to worry about. I've done long highway runs and long offroad crawls. Nothing has melted yet.
2nd mistake: Skimped on wire gauge.
My local Ace Hardware only had 10 gauge wire. All the stuff I found on Amazon (relay, inline fuse, etc.) was cheaper and easier to find at 10 gauge. The inline fuse I bought said it was 30-50 amp. The relay was 40 amp. Lies. All lies.
30 amp fuse popped every time I hit the switch. 50 amp fuse would last a couple of minutes before popping. After the relay melted, I knew I was in trouble.
Started over, ripped out all the 10 gauge and replaced it with 6 gauge (Lowes had some, but only red and white. REMEMBER, TRINT!! WHITE IS NEGATIVE!!). Out with the crimp connectors. Everything soldered and heat shrinked. HUGE 100 amp relay. Chunky-monkey "maxi" style 50 amp in-line fuse.
All my hoses are Goodyear Rubber Whip in 3/8" (avail. on Amazon).
I made a couple of mistakes along the way learn from me!
1st mistake: Worried too much about heat.
My pump is mounted under the hood of my Tacoma. The tank and most of the plumbing is under the bed. Running the plumbing down the frame rail past the exhaust, I was sure I would cook my hoses and wires. I spent about a month trying to find a heat shield that would fit and not cost a fortune. I finally decided to install first and see what melted. (The shields I found cost WAY more than the hoses.) Turns out I had nothing to worry about. I've done long highway runs and long offroad crawls. Nothing has melted yet.
2nd mistake: Skimped on wire gauge.
My local Ace Hardware only had 10 gauge wire. All the stuff I found on Amazon (relay, inline fuse, etc.) was cheaper and easier to find at 10 gauge. The inline fuse I bought said it was 30-50 amp. The relay was 40 amp. Lies. All lies.
30 amp fuse popped every time I hit the switch. 50 amp fuse would last a couple of minutes before popping. After the relay melted, I knew I was in trouble.
Started over, ripped out all the 10 gauge and replaced it with 6 gauge (Lowes had some, but only red and white. REMEMBER, TRINT!! WHITE IS NEGATIVE!!). Out with the crimp connectors. Everything soldered and heat shrinked. HUGE 100 amp relay. Chunky-monkey "maxi" style 50 amp in-line fuse.
All my hoses are Goodyear Rubber Whip in 3/8" (avail. on Amazon).
Just got off the phone with my local Grainger to see if they had any in stock (they do) but they noted something of interest. The SB50 (the Anderson 50 amp plug) is only rated to #6 wire. I called Anderson to confirm and that is indeed correct. They're limited to a max of 6 gauge wire and can't accept a 4 gauge. I'd need to step up to something larger for #4.
Sounds as if 6 gauge isn't an issue in running these things.
I'll report back, hopefully, this weekend with an install.
Jack
Sounds as if 6 gauge isn't an issue in running these things.
I'll report back, hopefully, this weekend with an install.
Jack
Blue77FJ40
SILVER Star
Not sure of the gauge of the jumper cable I used for my 50A Anderson connection. Admittedly not for hard wiring, but for plug in use, you can see it's quite a bit larger gauge than the wiring from the Puma pump, and fit the 50A Anderson easily and I've had zero problems. I soldered my connection. This pic is from my earlier post in this thread.
I ran 4 gauge from the battery to a power post in the rear of the cruiser. Then ran 6 gauge with an sb50 to the compressor from the power post. It's a short run, so minimal voltage loss at that point.
Thanks, man! I'm running to Grainger over lunch so I will be able to throw this all together this weekend. My setup will be "portable" but I want it to be safe, effective, and durable. At some point, I'll probably hard wire it in as you've done with a power plug (so I can still remove it), but for now, it's just as easy to have it set up like this.
Jack
From what I’ve seen others do, the #4 wire will fit in the #6 contact for the SB-50 Anderson plug. I haven’t tried it yet but am in the parts buying process like you.
I've worked with electronics all of my working (40+)years and I used to think that soldering stranded wire at critical connections was a good thing. But, I've come to realize that it does NOT fix or replace a bad crimp. It also does not add any strength to a good crimp, in fact it handicapps it in the long run. Taken from Elecriciantalk.com forum:
"You don't want to solder stranded wire that's used under a screw terminal!
Why? Because the solder will cold flow with repeated heat cycles and the terminal will loosen.
You don't want to solder stranded wire that's subjected to flexing or vibration!
Why? Because at the point where the solder stops, a hard spot will be created. With time the strands will break one at a time at this point."
So, don't be mis-led to think that soldering your connections is helping or strengthening them for longevity. One of the first rules to soldering is that FIRST you MUST have a good and solid mechanical connection. The solder is used to insure a good elecrtrical connection and should not be relied on to add physical or mechanical strength. Any flex to the wire AT the solder joint will, in the long run, result in a weakened connection. Most of us know and have seen metal fatigue. Stranded wire holds up well to vibration and why it is used in automotive harnesses. Soldering stranded wire that is unsupported or is exposed to flexing is a bad idea.
I think in my original setup in another truck, I trimmed some strands on 4 gauge wire to fit a 6 gauge terminal for the sb50. I couldn't find any 4 gauge terminals that would fit in a sb50 connector. It was easier this time to make a short run (maybe 2ft max) of 6 gauge with the proper connector from the power post.
Ended up using 8’ of jumper cables (#6) with the SB50. Don’t think it’ll be causing any issues over such a short run and it’s considerably thicker than the #10 off the PUMA itself.
Off idle, the unit went from 15 psi to 41.5 psi in a tick over 2 minutes. This test was conducted in two 1 minute intervals. Minute one: 15-28.5 (I aired up to 30 with one “blip” of air after). Minute two: 30-41.5.
Conditions: ~55*, rainy and cool. Vehicle at idle
Off idle, the unit went from 15 psi to 41.5 psi in a tick over 2 minutes. This test was conducted in two 1 minute intervals. Minute one: 15-28.5 (I aired up to 30 with one “blip” of air after). Minute two: 30-41.5.
Conditions: ~55*, rainy and cool. Vehicle at idle
Guys, tested the PUMA again tonight with delightful results. I’ll share more later when I’m near a computer.
I did that setup when I first got my Puma, mainly so I could easily use it in more than 1 rig. HD jumper cables are a good choice with the larger cable size to keep voltage drop to a minimum. But I changed my mind and went with a more permanent type of setup on my 80 for a couple of reasons. Those look like good clamps and when securely clamped they'll provide the "juice" you need to run the Puma. My beef with them was that with the stiff HD cables and dragging the Puma around to all tires on the trail it was easy to miss seeing that a clamp had shifted from the weight or stiffness. Which leads to the second reason. The Puma will still run even if voltage drops below 12V for whatever reason. Problem being that it looses effenciency and continued laboring of the motor will overheat it and shorten it's life. Would be much more reliable to replace clamps with an Anderson connector that the battery side is terminated with lugs to the 12V source under your hood. Then you hook up and disco quicker and more secure with the source half living in engine compartment when unused. The connecting cable with Anderson connectors at both ends, is easier & less bulky to to stow, now. It would not take much money or effort to change from your current setup to the one I described.
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I like the idea of using an Anderson style connector off the battery to connect it and when I get around to rewiring that area, I think I’ll give it a go. Stupid question: Are you testing voltage at the battery and then “assuming” some drop?
I tested voltage yesterday and this is what I got:
Idle with compressor “off” (read: tank filled): 13.7v
Idle with compressor running (10+min running): 12.29-12.40 (the “high” side might be higher since I didn’t catch it right when the compressor came on)
I’ll post some stats later this morning on the fill up
Okay, so, I’ve been itching to get some numbers on the PUMA since I put it in the truck. I figured I’d do two tires at one pressure and two at another pressure. The goal here was to see if there was any heat fatigue between tires. As it turns out, the PUMA was consistent.
I aired down to “10” and “15” psi respectively using my ARB gauge. My digital gauge tells me this was actually “11.5” and “16.5” so these are my starting numbers.
DF – 11.5-30 psi in 1:35
DR - 11.5-30 psi in 1:40
PF – 16.5-30 psi in 1:10
PR – 16.5-32 psi in 1:10
I checked pressure after the first 60 seconds and found got 24, 24, 29, and 29, respectively.
It took approximately 60 seconds to fill the tank from empty. The compressor kicked on almost instantly when using an air chuck. In between tires, it filled and turned off.
Using the #6 battery cable helped with heat as there was absolutely no heat in the cables or jumper ends. Voltage while running at idle was no less than 12.29. Voltage while the compressor wasn’t running was 13.70.
After running for 10-15 minutes, heat the head was 222*, the exhaust elbow was at 128*. Allowing it to cool for 8 minutes saw a drop in temp of 85* and 36* respectively.
Random statistics:
-81* ambient temp
-1,060 feet above sea level
-Barometric pressure at 1,013.6 mb
To @80t0ylc point about moving the PUMA, the 8’ cord kept the PUMA stationary at the head of the truck. A 25’ hose was used for fill up.
I aired down to “10” and “15” psi respectively using my ARB gauge. My digital gauge tells me this was actually “11.5” and “16.5” so these are my starting numbers.
DF – 11.5-30 psi in 1:35
DR - 11.5-30 psi in 1:40
PF – 16.5-30 psi in 1:10
PR – 16.5-32 psi in 1:10
I checked pressure after the first 60 seconds and found got 24, 24, 29, and 29, respectively.
It took approximately 60 seconds to fill the tank from empty. The compressor kicked on almost instantly when using an air chuck. In between tires, it filled and turned off.
Using the #6 battery cable helped with heat as there was absolutely no heat in the cables or jumper ends. Voltage while running at idle was no less than 12.29. Voltage while the compressor wasn’t running was 13.70.
After running for 10-15 minutes, heat the head was 222*, the exhaust elbow was at 128*. Allowing it to cool for 8 minutes saw a drop in temp of 85* and 36* respectively.
Random statistics:
-81* ambient temp
-1,060 feet above sea level
-Barometric pressure at 1,013.6 mb
To @80t0ylc point about moving the PUMA, the 8’ cord kept the PUMA stationary at the head of the truck. A 25’ hose was used for fill up.
It would help keeping the Puma stationary and using a longer air hose to avoid clamp shifting. And 8' of #6 cable (assuming good crimps and secure clamp connections) is IMHO entirely adequate. Where you want to check the voltage is at the Anderson connector - the voltage that the Puma sees. I like a higher than idle speed of the engine with either a hand throttle or thottle peddle wedged...lol. Say 1500 rpm.
Thanks for the heads up on where you're checking voltage. The SB50 is a lot closer to the motor so it makes sense to check voltage there (face meet palm). One of these days, I'll re-run the test and (maybe) at that point, have added a hand-throttle (it makes winching a lot easier too (not that I need to winch ever
)). @LandCruiserPhil has discussed the merits of the additional RPM and I think there's benefit in that. Longer air hose makes things a cinch, though!
Jack
Jack, what your looking for, and I think you'll see with that setup is the same voltage at the Anderson connector as you see at the battery, maybe a tenth or two of a volt less. Probably 13+ volts. The Puma needs 12V, but the slightly more voltage checked now, insures that you'll have what you need on the trail, with all the variables possible. BTW, I haven't checked air up times - I just enjoy having the Puma as opposed to what I was using before...lol.
