Proposed suspension upgrade. Please criticize! (1 Viewer)

[drowzyGX]

Hey Y'all,

So far this forum has been an invaluable source of knowledge for this car.

I've been planning out a suspension upgrade for my 2004 KDSS GX470. I've searched the forum and other sites pretty thoroughly, and have dramatically improved my understanding of suspension systems (still have a loooong way to go). I *think* I have a good solution based on my goals and needs, but would love to hear suggestions and criticisms from the community before I pull the trigger and pay for the parts and install.

90%+ of the miles this car sees will be highway or local streets. It's my only vehicle. I don't do a ton of off-roading, but am hoping to change that over the next few years. Off-roading will be mostly forest service and fire roads, some trails through the south east, and some lengthy trips out west (mostly highway miles, but I anticipate some moderately challenging off road trails at the destinations).

My car doesn't have armor front or rear bumpers (all stock), no fancy drawer + fridge setups in the back, no roof top tent, but I may add some skids / under body armor for the protection. The only aspect of that which could change relatively soon (but after the suspension work) is a rear bumper with a swingout for the tire. Gotta see how annoying keeping a full size spare in the rear gets. When I go on long trips, I'll pack the back with camping gear and two coolers. When I drive locally, the third row seats are in, but I don't keep any gear permanently in the car.

All of this is to say, I want to maximize on-road comfort (big fan of sport mode, far right setting on the knob), but maintain some decent capability off-road when I go on these trips. I'd also like to be able to add the rear bumper without completely overhauling the rear suspension (replacing the springs is fine). I'm looking at 275/70/17 tires on stock wheels.

I'll probably ask ACC Garage to do the install. They've got a stellar reputation, great reviews, and a ton of knowledge on the GX470. When I spoke with them, they recommended Dobinson's, and I really like that suggestion after doing some research of my own.

My proposed suspension:

• Front
  • C59-314 2.5" stock weight springs
  • GS59-221 twin tube, non-adjustable shocks
  • New upper control arms (SPC or light racing, planning to go with whatever ACC suggests)
  • car has a brand new OEM steering rack and front cv axles (not even 1000 miles on them)
• Rear
  • C59-725 - 1.75", stock rear end load
  • GS59-701 - Twin Tube, medium to heavy load
  • new upper and lower rear links
  • metal tech conversion kit

My thoughts are stock weight on the front is fine since I have no mods there. For the rear, I think the medium to heavy load shocks should keep me covered when i load up for long road trips, and also if i opt for a rear bumper with swing out. The stock springs for ride comfort, and they can be replaced if / when I add a rear bumper.

Am I thinking about this right? Is it fair to assume that with stock wheels and 275/70/17s I won't have to go overboard on body mods to avoid rubbing after the proposed suspension install?

I know there are kits like those from toytec and icon that are adjustable and provide great on-road comfort and off-road capability, but I think those might be overkill until I get more off-roading experience and have terrain-specific needs.

Please, tear into this build / offer suggestions / etc. I'd rather drag my feet and consider more opinions than spend a bunch and regret it.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Wow, that’s pretty good in terms of overhauling your suspension. You pretty much have everything covered. the only thing I would change are the rear springs. you should consider these instead:

• Dobinson C59-675V - Variable rate comfort option, stock rear weight. 470/18.503” free length, 16mm wire, 157-230LB variable spring rate. People report about 1.75” to 2” rear lift; $220
  

Maybe they lift you too much, but those are the shortest variable load springs to help you ride smoother when lightly loaded and when somewhat loaded. This would help you when you add your rear bumper.

 

[drowzyGX]

Wow, that’s pretty good in terms of overhauling your suspension. You pretty much have everything covered. the only thing I would change are the rear springs. you should consider these instead:

• Dobinson C59-675V - Variable rate comfort option, stock rear weight. 470/18.503” free length, 16mm wire, 157-230LB variable spring rate. People report about 1.75” to 2” rear lift; $220

Maybe they lift you too much, but those are the shortest variable load springs to help you ride smoother when lightly loaded and when somewhat loaded. This would help you when you add your rear bumper.

Hey Homer, thank you for the suggestion. I’ll check that out for sure. I must have missed it since it wasn’t available as an option for the lift kit bundle on treaty and Dobinson’s direct. If that spring is the better option, then I can piece the kit together individually from treaty.

also want to say thanks for your build thread. Really enjoyed reading through yours and scatadams over the past few months.

 

[Manhattan]

I'll probably ask ACC Garage to do the install. They've got a stellar reputation, great reviews, and a ton of knowledge on the GX470.

^THAT^ I spent some time 'wheeling with Dugan this weekend. His GX470 just plain works. Okay, he can drive too.

 

[GXO]

ACC can’t go wrong. If you’re local hit me up. We have a big group in gxor on fb that I own and I live in Woodstock

 

[CarolinaGX]

If you plan on going with a rear bumper and tire carrier, I suggest planning on the weight for it before buying your springs. It will ride slightly stiffer unloaded until you add the bumper but will ride nicely when loaded and with the bumper. Otherwise, you will likely change out rear springs after the bumper install. Just my $0.02

 

[drowzyGX]

ACC can’t go wrong. If you’re local hit me up. We have a big group in gxor on fb that I own and I live in Woodstock

Hey Dan, definitely will do. Thanks! I split my time between Atlanta and Athens. My folks are out on the border of cobb and woodstock. I don't have any social media, but i may ask my gf to join the fb group so i can get all the info there.

If you plan on going with a rear bumper and tire carrier, I suggest planning on the weight for it before buying your springs. It will ride slightly stiffer unloaded until you add the bumper but will ride nicely when loaded and with the bumper. Otherwise, you will likely change out rear springs after the bumper install. Just my $0.02

Hey Carolina, if I was dead set on a bumper, I'd go that route for sure. That being said, it could very easily be a year before I add one. If I can maximize the comfort of the ride for the next year, and just have to replace the rear springs, I can justify that cost. Big concern is if I'd have to replace the shocks, too. If that's the case, I'll probably just do shocks and springs in anticipation of the bumper.

 

[drowzyGX]

Hey Y'all,

When I talked with the shop that I'd like to have install the lift, they suggested the icon stage 2 kit based on my needs (no plans for armor in the next year or so, almost all highway and road driving, offroading will mostly be forest service roads and basic trails to get to camping / hunting / fishing spots), and goal is to maximize ride comfort.

Before spending the ~$2300 on the icon kit w/ UCAs (compared to ~$1500 for dobinson's and UCAs), I wanted to get y'all's thoughts on some things...

• Am I really going to see a massive difference in on-road ride comfort between the icon stage 2 and dobinsons?
• Icon recommends rebuilding the shocks and coilovers after ~40k mi of on road driving, or 15k mi of mixed on road / off road driving. Based on my driving, that would mean once a year my car will be down for ~2 weeks, and i'll be paying for a rebuild, an alignment and possibly the labor to get a shop to install the parts again. That seems...excessive? Is a kit like this overkill for my use case?
  • Could I stick to the ~40k mi rebuild suggestion if my off road is as limited as I think it will be?
• All the research I've done so far, icon seems to be somewhat divisive of a brand. Haven't seen a ton of reviews for em on the gx, but a lot of the 4runner folks seem to have had bad experiences / a lot more maintenance than expected. Thoughts?

I have yet to see a bad review of dobinson's, though, and that's why i'm leaning that kit. That being said, i have only heard good things about acc garage, and value their opinions quite highly.

 

[CarolinaGX]

@drowzyGX I see you are in ATL, If you are in the Charlotte area anytime soon, you are welcome to contact me and drive my rig if it will help you get an idea of what you want, or what you don't want My spec's are listed in my signature.

 

[ebbs15]

one thing I would mention is the setup you quoted levels the rig out... any added weight MAY cause you to look like a dog dragging it's ass. (all depends on the spring rate... ACC will most definitely be able to help you there) but you don't want to go too stiff or you'll hate the ride unless you're fully loaded.

just something to keep in mind.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

The basic Dobinson shocks are non-rebuildable as far as I know. The same for the lower priced OME and Bilstein. And that’s the beauty of these shocks...no rebuilding.

I agree with you that I haven’t seen negative posts on these lower prices Dobinson. they seem to have hit a sweet spot at least in the lower priced market segment.

For your application, I would give the Dobinson shocks and springs a try. I would also go with the variable rate rear springs c59-675v. Sell them later if your rear weight is too much. I think there’s a better used market for the variable rate rear springs.

I’m getting ready to install my rear icon extended shocks and dobinson c59-675v rear springs.

I didn’t go with Dobinson rear shocks because I didn’t want to upgrade the front non-rebuildable, but height adjustable via notches Bilstein 6112s. Icon shocks are a better match for the bilsteins from what I’ve read.

Oh, and I came close to just getting matching Bilstein 5100 or 5160 in extended length for the rear to match the front, but I decided that I wanted to be able to control the valving which the icons allow.

 

[drowzyGX]

@drowzyGX I see you are in ATL, If you are in the Charlotte area anytime soon, you are welcome to contact me and drive my rig if it will help you get an idea of what you want, or what you don't want My spec's are listed in my signature.

Hey Carolina, really appreciate the offer. If I make it there for work in the next month or two, I'll let you know. We do a fair bit of consulting with Belk. So I could easily end up there on a project.

one thing I would mention is the setup you quoted levels the rig out... any added weight MAY cause you to look like a dog dragging it's ass. (all depends on the spring rate... ACC will most definitely be able to help you there) but you don't want to go too stiff or you'll hate the ride unless you're fully loaded.

just something to keep in mind.

Most of my trips for the near future will be weekend ones. So my gear will just be some basic camping supplies, along with some tools and recovery gear for the car in case of emergency. Otherwise, it's just me and my dog. My buddy went with the HD OME kit for his taco in anticipation of adding armor and gear in the future. He doesn't mind the stiffness, but it wasn't for me.

The basic Dobinson shocks are non-rebuildable as far as I know. The same for the lower priced OME and Bilstein. And that’s the beauty of these shocks...no rebuilding.

I agree with you that I haven’t seen negative posts on these lower prices Dobinson. they seem to have hit a sweet spot at least in the lower priced market segment.

For your application, I would give the Dobinson shocks and springs a try. I would also go with the variable rate rear springs c59-675v. Sell them later if your rear weight is too much. I think there’s a better used market for the variable rate rear springs.

I’m getting ready to install my rear icon extended shocks and dobinson c59-675v rear springs.

I didn’t go with Dobinson rear shocks because I didn’t want to upgrade the front non-rebuildable, but height adjustable via notches Bilstein 6112s. Icon shocks are a better match for the bilsteins from what I’ve read.

Oh, and I came close to just getting matching Bilstein 5100 or 5160 in extended length for the rear to match the front, but I decided that I wanted to be able to control the valving which the icons allow.

Hey Homer, definitely like the non-rebuildable aspect of the dobinson's. Seems to shorten down time. When it comes time to replace a suspension component, I can just order new parts ahead of time, and my only down time is the time to install / let a shop install. Definitely been considering that variable rate rear spring, too.

I think the big thing I need to figure out - and I can just shoot icon an email - is the suggested rebuild time. If I can get much closer to the 40k mi estimate than the 15k, and the icons really offer that much better ride quality, then the rebuild doesn't seem as much of a hassle. But if im looking at having to do it once a year, even with mild off road use, that just isn't worth it to me. That's a ton of down time and cost on top of the anticipated annual maintenance. Until i move into a place with a driveway, I'll be stuck paying a shop to essentially reinstall my suspension once a year.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Here’s what MT says about the isolators....On top we use the factory Toyota Prado 120 secondary spring isolator that keeps the spring in place and acts a secondary spring when the axle comes in hard contact when coming off a ledge.

Not quite sure of the “acts as a spring” part.

Here in LA, I read some shops advertise $100 to rebuild the shocks on Craigslist. I just can’t remember if the at the price per shock or per pair.

 

[ebbs15]

Here’s what MT says about the isolators....On top we use the factory Toyota Prado 120 secondary spring isolator that keeps the spring in place and acts a secondary spring when the axle comes in hard contact when coming off a ledge.

Not quite sure of the “acts as a spring” part.

Here in LA, I read some shops advertise $100 to rebuild the shocks on Craigslist. I just can’t remember if the at the price per shock or per pair.

I think they mean a Jounce spring... which I've seen a bump stop referred to...

Timbren bump stops are advertised as springs as well

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I copied their description from their stage 2 coil conversion kit which includes and describes the Toyota oem isolators.

Metal Tech GX470 Rear Coil Conversion Kit Stage 2 w/OEM Toyota Parts

This complete Lexus GX470 rear coil conversion kit allows you to replace the GX470's airbags with a more reliable set. Buy this conversion kit today.

www.metaltech4x4.com

 

[drowzyGX]

I copied their description from their stage 2 coil conversion kit which includes and describes the Toyota oem isolators.

Metal Tech GX470 Rear Coil Conversion Kit Stage 2 w/OEM Toyota Parts

This complete Lexus GX470 rear coil conversion kit allows you to replace the GX470's airbags with a more reliable set. Buy this conversion kit today.

www.metaltech4x4.com

definitely getting either this one or the equivalent one from sso. I think ACC said they like the sso one more. I think the sso one also adds 3/4” lift in the rear.

All in all, the various components seem straightforward enough: light racing UCAs, metal tech extended break lines, metal tech rear links, metal tech or sso conversion kit.

the more I think and read about it, the more I’m leaning towards dobinsons. There’s no way the kit won’t be comfier than my very, very leaky and bouncy air suspension.
If I decide to go all in on an off road setup in a year, then all I lost was the $900 for the kit versus $1800 for the icon stage 2.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

unless you do the rubicon, a basic 2” suspension lift with dobinsons, OME, etc. and good tires will be fairly capable offroad.

these were designed for offroad.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Oh, you don’t need rear lower links for a basic lift. Skip those for your application.

Rear lower links can be added if you go long/extended rear travel or bend your oem RLLs on rocks. Otherwise, don’t bother!

 

[drowzyGX]

unless you do the rubicon, a basic 2” suspension lift with dobinsons, OME, etc. and good tires will be fairly capable offroad.

these were designed for offroad.

oh for sure! Definitely not worried about the off road capability. Mostly curious about the on-road ride comfort. That one is tough to gauge though as everyone has their own opinions.

I’m thinking the dobinsons will be an upgrade in comfort. My current suspension is leaky like crazy and super bouncy. My previous car was a 2001 blazer with 200k miles and the bounciest suspension. As long as dobinsons is an upgrade in comfort over that, I’m a happy camper.

 

[drowzyGX]

Oh, you don’t need rear lower links for a basic lift. Skip those for your application.

Rear lower links can be added if you go long/extended rear travel or bend your oem RLLs on rocks. Otherwise, don’t bother!

Oh, that’s good to know. Thanks! So they’re overkill with just a basic 2”-2.5” lift? Always happy to save the money if they aren’t gonna provide much benefit over stock.