"PROJECT ROOBY" 80 all rounder build (1 Viewer)

[Bikeman]

Darren, will this stuff ever make it to the US soil thru an importer like Slee, especially bolt-in, no-adapter needed, long travel shocks other than OME, or will the stuff stay secret like those Bilsteins you talked about awhile back?.

 

[landtank]

Darren, will this stuff ever make it to the US soil thru an importer like Slee, especially bolt-in, no-adapter needed, long travel shocks other than OME, or will the stuff stay secret like those Bilsteins you talked about awhile back?.

I contacted him back in the Bilstein days about getting a set and was told that giving me a price was a waste of my time as I wouldn't be able to afford them.

For better or worse I came away with the idea that they weren't his property as he indicated in his posts.

 

[Nay]

Darren, will this stuff ever make it to the US soil thru an importer like Slee, especially bolt-in, no-adapter needed, long travel shocks other than OME, or will the stuff stay secret like those Bilsteins you talked about awhile back?.

Those are looking like the Fox 2.0 5/8" emulsion shocks that appear to be customer tunable for $140/ea (or maybe $190 based on the finish). You could get springs built in the US. If you are really looking to do something like this now, I'd call FOR as the springs would be an extension (literally) of his existing design. The problem with custom springs, though, is you pay for the trial and error. Question is how much risk you build into an existing design to modify the springs on the first attempt?

I will be looking into these shocks, though, as they seem a pretty ideal upgrade for the current 5125 Bilsteins I am running and I'm looking to keep my suspension tuned very much along these lines. I wouldn't mess with my springs unless I was dying for 37's over 36's since I could run 36's now with no additional mods and I've been very happy with the performance of a 50/50 travel ratio on the 80.

Still, to have this kind of down travel with exception road manners is seriously drool worthy. I hope it makes it to market

 

[ZPDFJ]

That is the one and ONLY Nissan i would ever drive, otherwise ALL toyota, THAT THING IS SEXY!!!!

 

[landtank]

That is the one and ONLY Nissan i would ever drive, otherwise ALL toyota, THAT THING IS SEXY!!!!

also looks like the front left and right rear tire has been greatly aired down to exaggerate the effect of flex.

 

[toyman317]

Good call Rick.

 

[Nay]

also looks like the front left and right rear tire has been greatly aired down to exaggerate the effect of flex.

That doesn't change the function of the coils in terms of building a progressive wind purely to keep the coils retained without sacrificing road use with a too soft base spring rate.

The ramp is nothing but a measure available shock travel and link restriction on a coil sprung vehicle - it has little to do with suspension dynamics or even rock crawling capability. Nobody takes this line - it is pure posing, so might as well pose as much as possible.

The point of the pic is to show an early model of the upper winds on the coil. Let's stick to a discussion on the benefits and/or disadvantages of this design rather than the amount of air in the tires, because the US market for the 80 can use suspension designs that go beyond increasing spring rate and vehicle weight proportionate to lift height, and that will only come to market with a reasonable view of the benefits and demand that could follow.

 

[Bikeman]

The point of the pic is to show an early model of the upper winds on the coil. Let's stick to a discussion on the benefits and/or disadvantages of this design rather than the amount of air in the tires, because the US market for the 80 can use suspension designs that go beyond increasing spring rate and vehicle weight proportionate to lift height, and that will only come to market with a reasonable view of the benefits and demand that could follow.

This may step on some toes. The US market is thriving for this stuff, but from old topics/posts, ATS looks (appears) unwilling to export these items. Could also be that some importers are so stuck on OME (no offense to anyone).

Maybe we need to try to get some of the newer expedition/overlander supply companies popping up to work directly with the manufacturers in other parts of the world to get the valving right on a shock and to get these new-generation coil springs and parts into the US.

It could benefit the heavily-loaded and some of the recent lightweight-built 80's as well.

 

[landtank]

Let's stick to a discussion on the benefits and/or disadvantages of this design rather than the amount of air in the tires

Then why post this picture? He could just take one of his new springs out of a box and photo that.

I thought this was a discussion of the suspension he had on his truck and how it is better suited for the 80 and that pic was to illustrate that. I merely pointed out that the pic didn't accurately illustrate the flex gotten from those springs and how I knew.

And why post a pic of a patrol when he owns the 80 the springs are on?

But I'll stay out of it. Nay, let me know when you get a set of springs and shocks from this guy.

 

[Nay]

Then why post this picture? He could just take one of his new springs out of a box and photo that.

I thought this was a discussion of the suspension he had on his truck and how it is better suited for the 80 and that pic was to illustrate that. I merely pointed out that the pic didn't accurately illustrate the flex gotten from those springs and how I knew.

And why post a pic of a patrol when he owns the 80 the springs are on?

But I'll stay out of it. Nay, let me know when you get a set of springs and shocks from this guy.

I'm not asking you to stay out of it nor I am expecting to ever see one of these springs stateside given the business case it would take to bring them here.

He said why he posted the picture, which was simply to show the coil as an example of a coil with a fully compressed at static load progressive wind to allow extra droop design into the suspension. The flex shot opens up the wheel well so you can see it. I don't think there are any production coils in a box to open up and take a picture.

This thread lays out a design goal and the elements used to achieve it. I have not read the case that this is "better" (although I think it is for certain usage types) here, but rather that this design premise can in fact be achieved in stark contrast to the not-so-long-ago conventional wisdom that you needed 5" of lift on an 80 to effectively run 35's.

I giving the to conventional wisdom at every opportunity, because like FOR, that is the only way you get new product to market to be tested and optimized.

A serious debate about the long term viability and true performance characteristics of this coil design would be very much in order, as it simply represents the foundation of taking the next step in 80 series suspension design if in fact it can meet the loaded/unloaded ride quality test, support 12" of full range travel (in the rear at least) and handle high speed backroad use while enabling absolutely maximum tire size on the smallest possible lift.

These qualities are the earmark of platform optimization and deserve the credit of honest debate and ultimately market testing. That won't happen if we hone in on negative incidentals as a matter of course.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Then why post this picture? He could just take one of his new springs out of a box and photo that.

I thought this was a discussion of the suspension he had on his truck and how it is better suited for the 80 and that pic was to illustrate that. I merely pointed out that the pic didn't accurately illustrate the flex gotten from those springs and how I knew.

And why post a pic of a patrol when he owns the 80 the springs are on?

But I'll stay out of it. Nay, let me know when you get a set of springs and shocks from this guy.

Landtank,

That pic was what I had in my photobucket library, that was available from home on the day, I wasnt at work, did we run 4wding pressures in the tyres, sure we did, nothing wrong with that in our opinion, as we do it every time we go wheeling, simple really.

The patrol also runs an alomost same/same coil, in a very similar set up to cruiser, in the front, and rear, so it is pretty relevent.

As for Bilsteins, given you asked, it was only you we didnt sell them too, Im a firm believer in being able to pick and choose your customers.

Now, as for staying out of it, I hope you do, because the last thing I want in this thread, is your type of pissing and moaning attitude so far, so please do stay out of it, if you cant control yourself.

PM me if you have a problem with that, but dont continue it here.

OK, back to normal programming.


I have been speaking with SLEE about the suspension program, and we have done all the research and development for these already, so they dont go to market until its a complete set up, ready to go, which we have, and Christo already has alot of parts to complete, and the second coil rates are just adding to existing product lines, that make the package work.

Now, are the coils dearer, yes, steel is sold by weight, so the more steel you use, the dearer the coil gets, are they value for money?, well, the way we have trouble keeping stock of them, I would say the customers are voting with thier wallets.

Also, the fox are a 2.0, and we change bushes, and shaft ends, and valving to make them bolt on options for patrol, and cruiser. We also do install kits for smoothie and double/triple bypass shocks, but they arent "bolt on".

I would suggest contacting Christo to discuss, info@sleeoffroad.com if this set up is interesting for you, I dont want this thread to become an advertorial either, rather an information process, which helps feed the "outside the square" thinking, for making a good truck better, so
Im more than happy to give out what details we learn from these projects, and I think its in everyones interest to keep the thread on topic, and rolling in the correct direction, and thanks to those who have done so, so far.

Next update soon.

 

[Nay]

This may step on some toes. The US market is thriving for this stuff, but from old topics/posts, ATS looks (appears) unwilling to export these items. Could also be that some importers are so stuck on OME (no offense to anyone).

Maybe we need to try to get some of the newer expedition/overlander supply companies popping up to work directly with the manufacturers in other parts of the world to get the valving right on a shock and to get these new-generation coil springs and parts into the US.

It could benefit the heavily-loaded and some of the recent lightweight-built 80's as well.

This is my point. There are US coil manufacturers that can make the best coils in the world. This type of coil can be produced in the US and sold here in combination with high end shocks like Fox or the high end Bilsteins, etc. Any person here could have coils like this built just like ATS has done, but you will pay the trial and error costs (as I am sure he has done).

The question is why nobody brings it to market, and the answer is economics. It is expensive to produce this kind of coil, expensive to sell these kind of shocks, hard to convince the mass market to massage a $50K SUV with a hammer, and make any business case out of it.. This is a tuners market.

What is needed, IMO, for the tuners is the baseline springs rather than the buffet of crap that we get at high import prices relative to value through the ARB channel. Everything else is readily available. A 4.5" spring with this essential design characteristic for an eye to eye shock conversion for a 12" travel shock would be the ideal platform for getting out of the box on a 37" tire, and it doesn't exist in our market. All we largely have is a series of coils that change rate based on coil diameter and height for stated load bearing ranges.

This is why I say for today, if you don't want to go custom but you do want this general approach, get the FOR springs and go high end on the shocks to tune it for control and fade resistance without ending up with a brick on a rig that doesn't have all the heavy accessories. You just have to stick with ~10" travel rather than 12".

I'd like to prove this point for myself with a set of those 7100's, but as I said in the other thread, I just blew my 80 budget for the year on caster correction and a new stereo, so tuning this suspension will have to wait for 2009.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Nay,

The coil design we are using I have tested over the last 2 years, doing the most remote trip you can do in a vehicle pretty much, in Aus, with the vehicle weighing over 4 tonne [8800lb] carrying 300 lt of fuel, 120lt of water, and food for 2 weeks between civilisation, and we did 5000 miles on that trip, mostly off road, only averaging 100 miles a day for some days, in low range, in 8 hrs of driving, and we did it in 4 weeks, as well as sitting on 100 mph loaded, with 20 psi in the tyres [to prevent punctures] on outback dirt roads in between desert sections, as well as doing the hardest trip i have ever seen, on suspension, driving for 10 days in 1st and 2nd low range mostly over spinifex, across the madigan line, in the simpson desert, a trip most who do, say they would never do again, which is maxamising travel opposite corners most 1/2 to full car thength forward with 37" tyres, a big lift, aftermarket fox shocks, all the things everyone says dont work out there, we did, and across 19 cars in those 2 trips, we did suspension on 15, and we didnt have one failure of our equipment out there, though the nissan chassis on mine did tear a coil tower off the chassis on one trip, but nissans do that.

We also did many minor weekend and week trips into the mountains, out to the Fliders ranges, and continually monitoring, and watching, as it was also my daily driver, and tuning what we did, and do, because if the car doesnt drive nice, covering 900+ miles a day for a few days each way, sealed, and mostly not, when heading out to do remote trips, its not fun, and I have always been big on the car being easy, and nice to drive, and being able to carry the momentum you need to get over an obstacle, when you need it.

I am now completing this process with the next set of coil rates, and on another vehicle, and your right, it all costs money, but I started doing what I do, because I got sick of hearing "you cant do that" " never done that before" "why would you do that" when ever I wanted to spend my own money with a company, and order specifically what i wanted, without asking how much, to prove what works.

And this thread will be used to document what we do, how it works, or doesnt, and what we are doing to tune it. You dont sell these type of kits to the average consumer, as you said "tuners market" and because I have been the customer who knows what he wants, and had trouble getting it made, I enjoy filling that void for others out there with the same issues.

If your not passionate about your work, your in the wrong job

 

[Lugboot]

I, for one, really like this possibility of a more driveable unloaded rig with the benefit of having additional load-carrying capacity. I drive a lot of dirt roads, grew up driving dirt roads, and my OME Heavies don't make the experience as secure and fun as it should be . . . unless i have a bunch of additional wieght in the truck, which adds its own challenges. And even on pavement, the unloaded rig rides pretty harsh.

It wouldn't bother me to mod the control arm brackets at the frame end to move the axle forward or any of this other stuff. It would be so worth it to own an 80 that'll handle the way I want it to in the majority of my driving situations.

 

[FJBen]

Like everyone has said, it's all about availability and options.

Jeep has this market and has tons of options. It would be great to see some more suspension options for the 80.

Alright Nay, lets get some custom springs made I'm up for testing

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I want this suspension set-up, but I want it before Nay... What do I gotta do?

Seriously, awesome build. I was telling my wife this weekend that I was almost to the end of what is mass marketed and that I was going to be forced to "tune" my suspension by trial and error. This buildup will make that a lot easier!

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

I want this suspension set-up, but I want it before Nay... What do I gotta do?

Get me some cruiser crap black bottle openers with land cruiser on them, to Christo, to send to me, when you pick the bits up, and you could be in with a show

 

[FJBen]

I'm tempted to go FOR but I really like the 4" height. aesthetically and performance wise. I'm not extremely heavy, but I'd like the ability to carry weight when need be.

I made some extensions for the rear shocks on my old cruiser but yours are much slicker

I'm very intrigued by this setup and how it performs. Get some product in the US! and I'll run it

 

[Riad]

Very nice! So what color are you putting on the shortbus bumper?

 

[Bikeman]

Darren,

Unless I missed it, are you doing anything or need to do anything to the front drive shaft?