Power steering ISSUES Need some HELP!! (1 Viewer)

[claiborne86]

First and foremost thank you for opening this and hopefully you will take a moment and read the list below. I will go ahead and post the question I have here and those of you that read all the way down will read what has caused me to ask this question. The question is .... How many people have actually damaged the oil pump gear while performing a PS pump change. I have read that if you put a pump in with a damage gear it can damage the oil pump gear requiring you to change it which as we all know is a lot of work. I have a problem thinking that that is a common issue. Also if the truck sounds fine running without the PS pump installed would you not be getting some kind of noise from the oil pump gear contacting the crank gear. Listed below is a somewhat timeline of how I got where I am.

- Truck sat for 2 years. Pulled it out to get it back going. PS leaked so replaced everything.
Redhead gear box
toyota pump
high pressure
low pressure
new billet cooler

- Removed everything and did not have a vice to clamp gear. Mechanic down the street marred up teeth a bit. I took a file and cleaned it up. Bled with no tires on stands for what felt like 2 hours. Started truck sounded terrible. Realized teeth must have been worse than I thought.

-Started truck without pump installed ran beautifully like always. NO noise

- I have a parts truck pulled pump gear and swapped on and torqued my self. Bled again. SAME NOISE.

- Pulled new toyota PS pump and noticed small scratches on teeth ( not in teeth but more on the very outside of flat on teeth). Strange. Figured I must of scratched while installing.
But this not getting rid of the sound has me scared. One of two things either I damaged the oil pump gear with the initial bad PS gear or the new pump from Toyota was bad.

-Started truck without pump installed ran beautifully like always. NO noise STILL THINKING HOW IS IT NOT MAKING NOISE IF THE OIL PUMP GEAR IS DAMAGED.

- Swapped in old pump that was leaking and weak but silent. Torqued on gear again and repeated process. Started truck again same noise........

- At these point I went on partsouq and went nuts. Ordered a new gear for PS pump, crank gear, oil pump gear, gaskets, bolts, almost everything that i would take off to get to the oil pump gear to replace I ordered.

The Problem is I dont want to go in there if I dont have to. Please give me your opinion on the two things

One . How many damaged oil pump gears have you really seen?

Two. Would you say screw it and go into it or reset the new pump with the new gear and with extreme care start process again. With the chance that the oil pump gear damages the new 110 dollar ps pump gear.

If you read all this you are a true saint in the land cruiser world and my kids and myself thank you.










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[NeverFinis]

I guess I am a true saint.

I don't have an answer though...

Unless I missed it, you didn't describe the sound.

Are you sure it is coming from the pump, and not somewhere else like the new steering box? They are very close.

 

[claiborne86]

I guess I am a true saint.

I don't have an answer though...

Unless I missed it, you didn't describe the sound.

Are you sure it is coming from the pump, and not somewhere else like the new steering box? They are very close.

You're a saint brother, The sound is almost a rod knock sound. I used the metal rod held to ear to isolate the sound and it was beyond apparent that it was the pump. I am going to try to post a video now.

 

[Shipwreck]

I agree with @NeverFinis that you really need to confirm the location of the sound. Use a stick / stethoscope to pinpoint the sound and the type of sound. Usually a damaged gear will produce a ticking sound.
Having said that, I you have already bought new gear sets for the PS pump as well the oil pump, I would absolutely install all the new parts together. Yes, its a lot more work, but I would not mix and match your old (possibly damaged gears) with new gears.

 

[claiborne86]

T

I agree with @NeverFinis that you really need to confirm the location of the sound. Use a stick / stethoscope to pinpoint the sound and the type of sound. Usually a damaged gear will produce a ticking sound.
Having said that, I you have already bought new gear sets for the PS pump as well the oil pump, I would absolutely install all the new parts together. Yes, its a lot more work, but I would not mix and match your old (possibly damaged gears) with new gears.

Thanks Shipwreck. I used a steel rod to isolate the sound. Have you ever had the front of the engine taken down to that point?

 

[claiborne86]

T

Thanks Shipwreck. I used a steel rod to isolate the sound. Have you ever had the front of the engine taken down to that point?

just attached video

 

[claiborne86]

I guess I am a true saint.

I don't have an answer though...

Unless I missed it, you didn't describe the sound.

Are you sure it is coming from the pump, and not somewhere else like the new steering box? They are very close.

just posted video thanks again

 

[CruiserDave]

Are you sure the gear is set on the shaft correctly? As in far enough down the shaft? I believe it's a tapered fit, so maybe I'm wrong here?

 

[CruiserDave]

Or maybe to far inset?

 

[Shipwreck]

That's a pretty loud tick. Did you listen to the oil gear area with a rod to your ear when the pump was removed? Absolutely no ticking noise? What I'm thinking is that if the oil gear is damaged, the crank shaft has a lot of mass that may muffle the sound. The PS pump adds another gear which may vibrate more.
No ticking elsewhere? ie; lower end bearings? water pump?

Can you closely inspect the oil gear with a scope? AutoZone or equivalent, may have loaner units available.

If the oil gear looks undamaged, with no scratches, you may be right, in giving the new gear a chance.

Otherwise, if you still have ticking with a new pump and new gear (installed correctly as @CruiserDave describes) it points to the oil gear.
Replacing the oil gear is a significant engine tear down. The front cover needs to come off, which means the head needs to come off. Some people have managed to pull the cover without removing the head, by removing oil pans and the lower studs, but I'd worry about resealing the against the head gasket.
In addition, the oil gear rides inside a brass bushing which is pressed into the block. If that bushing gets damaged, it is not serviceable by Toyota. There are a couple aftermarket suppliers so you don't have to buy a new short block .
So the risk of damaging a new PS gear may be worth it if you can do what you can to assess the condition of the oil gear.

 

[NeverFinis]

That is one nasty sound....

There is an amazing amount of "Be careful not to damage the ...." warnings in the FSM just for the power steering pump. One of them is for the gear.

I would pull the PS pump again, as @Shipwreck mentioned, scope everything from oil gear damage to any witness marks on timing chain cover, and the block, where the PS pump inserts.

Also, does the PS pump turn smoothly in your hand? No hard spots?

 

[claiborne86]

That's a pretty loud tick. Did you listen to the oil gear area with a rod to your ear when the pump was removed? Absolutely no ticking noise? What I'm thinking is that if the oil gear is damaged, the crank shaft has a lot of mass that may muffle the sound. The PS pump adds another gear which may vibrate more.
No ticking elsewhere? ie; lower end bearings? water pump?

Can you closely inspect the oil gear with a scope? AutoZone or equivalent, may have loaner units available.

If the oil gear looks undamaged, with no scratches, you may be right, in giving the new gear a chance.

Otherwise, if you still have ticking with a new pump and new gear (installed correctly as @CruiserDave describes) it points to the oil gear.
Replacing the oil gear is a significant engine tear down. The front cover needs to come off, which means the head needs to come off. Some people have managed to pull the cover without removing the head, by removing oil pans and the lower studs, but I'd worry about resealing the against the head gasket.
In addition, the oil gear rides inside a brass bushing which is pressed into the block. If that bushing gets damaged, it is not serviceable by Toyota. There are a couple aftermarket suppliers so you don't have to buy a new short block .
So the risk of damaging a new PS gear may be worth it if you can do what you can to assess the condition of the oil gear.

View attachment 3865631

I agree with everything you just said. this weekend I’m going to remove the pump again and bore scope the oil pump gear. Then I’m going to start up with the stethoscope and listen to that area for any ticks. I have not seen where people have to remove the head but understand what you’re saying. I will post tomorrow with the results and maybe some more videos thank you very much for the help.

 

[claiborne86]

That is one nasty sound....

There is an amazing amount of "Be careful not to damage the ...." warnings in the FSM just for the power steering pump. One of them is for the gear.

I would pull the PS pump again, as @Shipwreck mentioned, scope everything from oil gear damage to any witness marks on timing chain cover, and the block, where the PS pump inserts.

Also, does the PS pump turn smoothly in your hand? No hard spots?

Yeah, what I’m telling you I thought I was gonna be OK. I really thought I was good. I have a factory service manual and saw the warnings. Silly mistake. The pump turns perfectly smooth. The depth was just a bit over 3/8 of an inch as I paid attention and put some calipers on it before I removed it.

 

[COS80]

I'll be doing this job shortly, and this thread's made me nervous.