Power steering failure

[RumDoodle]

I'm not sure of the repair costs involved but they should be manageable. If they do get into the territory that warrants it, this may be more appropriate as an insurance claim.

About $1400. Including their time investigating /diagnosing.

 

[dubyahard]

I may have suffered the same fate. Foolishly chose to use 4LO on pavement and now I have a severe whine and difficulty steering. I did not lose fluid though, as far as I can tell.
Question though, how can I tell if it’s the pump or the rack?

 

[04UZJ100]

I may have suffered the same fate. Foolishly chose to use 4LO on pavement and now I have a severe whine and difficulty steering. I did not lose fluid though, as far as I can tell.
Question though, how can I tell if it’s the pump or the rack?

Huh?

There is no issue running 4LO all day on pavement. Locking the center diff is a different story. Did you do that?

 

[RumDoodle]

I may have suffered the same fate. Foolishly chose to use 4LO on pavement and now I have a severe whine and difficulty steering. I did not lose fluid though, as far as I can tell.
Question though, how can I tell if it’s the pump or the rack?

I was told the pump itself is not necessarily heavy duty, so its not going to survive for long if its stressed for an "extended period." Subjective I know. But if you were locked up and turning on pavement, especially stationary or back and forth lock to lock, its more likely you damaged the pump.

My issue - according to the master service tech in Santa Fe, was that as lifted, the angle of the tie rods was different than stock on level pavement, and once I was in a ditch with turned wheels the suspension travel was extreme enough that air was somehow introduced into the gear/rack. it foamed the fluid and shot it out and pump failed soon thereafter. I argued it was conceivable a stock truck in that exact scenario could have the same end result. He said Toyota's millions in R&D engineering for the Land Cruiser say no it wouldn't and Toyota wants to hear nothing about it since you modified their design....

Both arguments have merit and it would take expert testimony to assert that I could have manipulated a stock truck in the same ditch to the same result.

The tech said that the fix would be installing a "tie rod flip kit" to correct the angles closer back to stock so that on extreme articulation the angles would be less severe. What does mud say? has anyone done this on a 200 series with a 2 - 2.5 inch lift? @Taco2Cruiser does this ring true to you? Or wouldn't you bother with it unless installing a more extreme long travel setup?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I was told the pump itself is not necessarily heavy duty, so its not going to survive for long if its stressed for an "extended period." Subjective I know. But if you were locked up and turning on pavement, especially stationary or back and forth lock to lock, its more likely you damaged the pump.

My issue - according to the master service tech in Santa Fe, was that as lifted, the angle of the tie rods was different than stock on level pavement, and once I was in a ditch with turned wheels the suspension travel was extreme enough that air was somehow introduced into the gear/rack. it foamed the fluid and shot it out and pump failed soon thereafter. I argued it was conceivable a stock truck in that exact scenario could have the same end result. He said Toyota's millions in R&D engineering for the Land Cruiser say no it wouldn't and Toyota wants to hear nothing about it since you modified their design....

Both arguments have merit and it would take expert testimony to assert that I could have manipulated a stock truck in the same ditch to the same result.

The tech said that the fix would be installing a "tie rod flip kit" to correct the angles closer back to stock so that on extreme articulation the angles would be less severe. What does mud say? has anyone done this on a 200 series with a 2 - 2.5 inch lift? @Taco2Cruiser does this ring true to you? Or wouldn't you bother with it unless installing a more extreme long travel setup?

Did fluid ever come out to the rack itself? You would see it around the inner tie rod boots?

 

[dubyahard]

Huh?

There is no issue running 4LO all day on pavement. Locking the center diff is a different story. Did you do that?

I had the center locked earlier. It is conceivable it occurred then and I hadn't noticed it.

 

[RumDoodle]

Did fluid ever come out to the rack itself? You would see it around the inner tie rod boots?

Appears not. Spray pattern on hood mat and surrounds near the resevoir. underside was caked with snow/ice/mud which they sprayed off looking for leaks elsewhere. dealer refilled and drove around a bit but found no leaks. New pump and fluid and all is right for now.

 

[dubyahard]

Does driving with the conditions of a whinny pump (with fluid in it) risk damage to other components? Like if my pump is already shot, is it okay to drive it for a while (like 100-200 miles) until I fix it?

 

[bloc]

I was told the pump itself is not necessarily heavy duty, so its not going to survive for long if its stressed for an "extended period." Subjective I know. But if you were locked up and turning on pavement, especially stationary or back and forth lock to lock, its more likely you damaged the pump.

My issue - according to the master service tech in Santa Fe, was that as lifted, the angle of the tie rods was different than stock on level pavement, and once I was in a ditch with turned wheels the suspension travel was extreme enough that air was somehow introduced into the gear/rack. it foamed the fluid and shot it out and pump failed soon thereafter. I argued it was conceivable a stock truck in that exact scenario could have the same end result. He said Toyota's millions in R&D engineering for the Land Cruiser say no it wouldn't and Toyota wants to hear nothing about it since you modified their design....

Both arguments have merit and it would take expert testimony to assert that I could have manipulated a stock truck in the same ditch to the same result.

The tech said that the fix would be installing a "tie rod flip kit" to correct the angles closer back to stock so that on extreme articulation the angles would be less severe. What does mud say? has anyone done this on a 200 series with a 2 - 2.5 inch lift? @Taco2Cruiser does this ring true to you? Or wouldn't you bother with it unless installing a more extreme long travel setup?

Tie rod flip kit? Did the tech even look at your suspension? This isn’t a solid axle vehicle. Moving the TRE would put it in a different arc of travel than the LCA/UCA/knuckle, which would cause bad things to happen to your toe any time you hit a bump. Basically the guy has no idea wtf he’s talking about.

I maintain the mechanic/SA is trying to justify toyota not covering the work, and your mods are a convenient excuse. The LX570 can lift itself at least 2” via the AHC with the exact same steering rack, knuckles, tie rods, etc, and I think it would be negligent of toyota to design their suspension/steering for a half inch more travel to suddenly nuke the PS fluid.

Unfortunately I don’t expect any of this logic to prevail. I’d still like to understand what happened, and without any external leaks I have to assume you just heated up the fluid way too much, though I disagree this had anything to do with the lift.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Appears not. Spray pattern on hood mat and surrounds near the resevoir. underside was caked with snow/ice/mud which they sprayed off looking for leaks elsewhere. dealer refilled and drove around a bit but found no leaks. New pump and fluid and all is right for now.

To side with you, and to be a little frustrated with the mechanic: there is no way on earth that a component on a truck can fail, by deflecting/destroying a bearing and not also break the seal. UGH!

I’ve broken Toyota IFS racks, the rack gear, in half. Boiled the fluid from crawling, bent rods. Heck, we’ve blown two tundra racks on our 3rd gen Tacoma with 37s that just gets pounded off road. Never have I even heard of a situation when pressure built, and blew out the resi cap. Combined with that, there is no fluid leaking from the damaged rack. I’d go into that dealership, raise hell and be ready to talk about the Magnuson Moss Act.

This is like when I had a pinion seal leak on a rear diff (other Truck, had 8,000 miles on it) . A Toyota tried to tell me because of my lift, that it damaged the seal. “Ok, is the bearing damaged?” I asked “No,” the service guys said. “Then how the F does the seal deflect enough to fail, but the bearing is still keeping things within .001” and hasn’t blown up the rear end?” Humm, kinda hard to figure that one out. That’s when they replaced it under warranty.

That whole “tie rod flip kit” @bloc. The outer tie rod is mounted to the bottom of the spindle. So in theory, you could mount it to the top of the spindle by making an adapter that would change the taper of the mating surfaces. It’s not a bad idea in general, but it is also not necessary at all for our trucks.

This rack, in my opinion, is fine, and whatever failed, was going to fail, regardless of any modification. And that is common. We know of quite a few odd ball things that have failed on new 200s.

 

[bloc]

That whole “tie rod flip kit” @bloc. The outer tie rod is mounted to the bottom of the spindle. So in theory, you could mount it to the top of the spindle by making an adapter that would change the taper of the mating surfaces. It’s not a bad idea in general, but it is also not necessary at all for our trucks.

I’ve messed with them before on solid axle vehicles where they can be a good solution to get the tie rod out of a leaf spring or raise it to get it out of the way of rocks. But, I disagree about it not being a bad idea here.

In this IFS case you’d be moving one end of the tie rod a certain amount but not the other. This means that the swing of that joint wouldn’t agree with the swing of the rest of the knuckle on that side, or said another way steering geometry would change with travel. Not good.

 

[TJSAV]

I have a '91 FJ80 with 2.5'' OME lift kit that i just bought in California. Drove it cross country to Savannah, GA without any issues. It has 197k original mileage and not a lick of rust. One day it died on me while driving. Troubleshooted it and turned out the Ignition Coil went bad. Easy replacement. Now the power steering is going nuts. First, it would whine and be real stiff until warmed up and then after shutting the vehicle down, the stiffness and whine would go away. I noticed a leak near the steering box coming down the frame. I picked up some Lucas power steering fluid thinking that it might help, now it whines and is stiffer then before. It doesn't whine when the steering is stiff but as soon as the power steering kicks in, it's bitchin'. I replaced the return line to the reservoir because it had moisture accumulation. I also bought a high pressure line but now I'm thinking that maybe it's the O ring in the steering gear box. Would really appreciate some help and insight into what the issue might be before replacing the PSP and steering box. The leak is coming from under the steering box, on top of the driver side frame.

I appreciate your help!

Trevor

 

[bloc]

I have a '91 FJ80 with 2.5'' OME lift kit that i just bought in California. Drove it cross country to Savannah, GA without any issues. It has 197k original mileage and not a lick of rust. One day it died on me while driving. Troubleshooted it and turned out the Ignition Coil went bad. Easy replacement. Now the power steering is going nuts. First, it would whine and be real stiff until warmed up and then after shutting the vehicle down, the stiffness and whine would go away. I noticed a leak near the steering box coming down the frame. I picked up some Lucas power steering fluid thinking that it might help, now it whines and is stiffer then before. It doesn't whine when the steering is stiff but as soon as the power steering kicks in, it's bitchin'. I replaced the return line to the reservoir because it had moisture accumulation. I also bought a high pressure line but now I'm thinking that maybe it's the O ring in the steering gear box. Would really appreciate some help and insight into what the issue might be before replacing the PSP and steering box. The leak is coming from under the steering box, on top of the driver side frame.

I appreciate your help!

Trevor

You’ll have much better luck posting in the 80-series sub forum. Good luck with it..

80-Series Tech

1991-1997 : Lexus LX450 and FJ80/FZJ80 Toyota Land Cruiser (J80)

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[TJSAV]

You’ll have much better luck posting in the 80-series sub forum. Good luck with it..

80-Series Tech

1991-1997 : Lexus LX450 and FJ80/FZJ80 Toyota Land Cruiser (J80)

forum.ih8mud.com

will do. thanks

 

[turbo8]

Thought this was neat. Marlin Crawler uses the 200 series rack for their RCLT kit for 4runners, tacos, and gxs. They run 40" tires on it without any problems.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thought this was neat. Marlin Crawler uses the 200 series rack for their RCLT kit for 4runners, tacos, and gxs. They run 40" tires on it without any problems.

Nice. I've been following those RLTC HD mods too with MarRacks. Bunch of social media influencers making the jump.

So who's going in first with 40s on a cruiser. When 37s can be had on factory specials.

 

[linuxgod]

So who's going in first with 40s on a cruiser. When 37s can be had on factory specials.

@Atwalz ?

 

[NoClue]

Just chiming in. I recently blew my P/S pump during a winter wheeling trip in upstate NY. I think the combination of frigid cold ( -25F ) and the figures 8s / donuts really put a strain on my pump and blew out the vane rotor within the pump. Also, the fluid was extremely thick during a cold start and caused it to sing for a bit.

I have since replaced my P/S pump with a new factory OEM pump with a full fluid flush with dexron 3. I have plans of piping in a bigger cooler with a switched fan to turn on when I'm crawling at lower speeds