Poll on total brake failure in 100 series

Has your 100 series LC experienced total -or near total- brake failure?

  • No.

    Votes: 1,268 73.1%
  • Yes. My truck had between 0 and 50k miles at the time.

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Yes. My truck had between 50k and 100K at the time.

    Votes: 14 0.8%
  • Yes. My truck had between 100K and 150k at the time.

    Votes: 72 4.1%
  • Yes. My truck had between 150k and 200k at the time.

    Votes: 145 8.4%
  • Yes. My truck had between 200k and 250K at the time.

    Votes: 138 8.0%
  • Yes. My truck had between 250k and 300k at the time.

    Votes: 76 4.4%
  • Yes, My truck had over 300k at the time.

    Votes: 41 2.4%

  • Total voters
    1,735

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I have an 07 Lx470 with 219k and when timing the pump when building back pressure in the braking system it takes right about 40 seconds. From what I've read here, anything over 40 seconds is a sign something is wrong.

Would folks recommend that I replace the brake master assembly as preventative maintenance now? Or keep on driving until things worsen?
No!
Rate master:
Inspect brake control wire leads/screws, corroded? yes: minus -3.
Is brake reservoir badly stained? yes: -2. light stain -1.
Flush brake system with Toyota brake fluid.
Pump brake pedal to evacuate accumulator. Count how many pumps of pedal until resistance drops out. 35 to 37 pumps -1. 38 to 40 pumps -2. over 40 -3.
Make sure battery at 12.4V or better. Retest time (to pressurize accumulator). Over 40 second, re bleed. Still over 40 seconds -1.

Minus -5 rating. Replace sooner than later. This is not a hard number. It's just to give you and understanding, on how to evaluate the master.

 
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No! Flush brake system with Toyota brake fluid. Make sure battery 12.5V or better. Re test. Over 40 second, re bleed.
It timed at 38 seconds after I bled the brakes with 1 quart of Valvoline dot 3&4. The battery is new this year. Does that change your opinion?
 
It timed at 38 seconds after I bled the brakes with 1 quart of Valvoline dot 3&4. The battery is new this year. Does that change your opinion?
I edited above post, adding more. Read it and the link I provided.
 
I edited above post, adding more. Read it and the link I provided.
Thanks for the write up! I'll test it out. This truck is new to me and I'm not quite 100% comfortable taking it on long trips just yet. I'm working through all the delayed maintenance now.
 
No!
Rate master:
Inspect brake control wire leads/screws, corroded? yes: minus -3.
Is brake reservoir badly stained? yes: -2. light stain -1.
Flush brake system with Toyota brake fluid.
Pump brake pedal to evacuate accumulator. Count how many pumps of pedal until resistance drops out. 35 to 37 pumps -1. 38 to 40 pumps -2. over 40 -3.
Make sure battery at 12.4V or better. Retest time (to pressurize accumulator). Over 40 second, re bleed. Still over 40 seconds -1.

Minus -5 rating. Replace sooner than later. This is not a hard number. It's just to give you and understanding, on how to evaluate the master.

Charged up the battery over night and retested. It took 41 seconds to pressurize the accumulator and 42 pumps of the brake pedal for resistance to drop. The fluid reservoir doesn't look stained and the wire leads look almost new.

Based on your rating above it doesn't look like replacement is an immediate need. Thanks for the info!

20241018_172130.jpg


20241018_172157.jpg


20241018_172209.jpg
 
Charged up the battery over night and retested. It took 41 seconds to pressurize the accumulator and 42 pumps of the brake pedal for resistance to drop. The fluid reservoir doesn't look stained and the wire leads look almost new.

Based on your rating above it doesn't look like replacement is an immediate need. Thanks for the info!

View attachment 3753053

View attachment 3753054

View attachment 3753055
"Although there is a sale on now. Where master assy are only about $1K."
No! I would not replace just yet!

The only reason we have no brakes, is no hydraulic pressure. As long as fluid is in system and booster motor/pump working. We have pressure and so we have brakes.

But I would dig deeper on the 41 second and 42 pumps.

It's important for a good timing test. That ~12.5 volts gets to booster pump motor. We sometime have a drop in voltage after battery post. Number one cause is oxidation or some substance between battery post and clamp, inhibiting the current flow. I check voltage with multimeter on battery post first, then on battery cable clamps, then from positive post & then clamp to a ground on body, then ground on engine. All should read the same volts. We can also check at master, but usually I don't need too.

When flushing, we also flush the accumulator. I do this by drawing (out a rear bleeder) fluid down, until reservoir almost empty. The turn IG key off and pump pedal 40 times, evacuating accumulator into reservoir. Add equal amount of fresh fluid to reservoir, as what remains after evacuating accumulator. I repeat 5 times. Then fill reservoir and move on to flushing and bleeding all lines/calipers, make sure fluid stays above low line in reservoir. If replacing brake pad at same time. I then compress caliper pistons, with its bleeder open. Making sure, I do not get air in, and or rebleed that caliper.

The FSM tells us to re-bleed, if more than 40 seconds. As the test is to determine if air in system.
I've also found:
If other than Toyota brake fluid in system, I may get higher times.
It can also be indication booster assembly weak. As a whole assembly or just one component of it like accumulator, which they do weaken with time as nitrogen depletes.
Motor also weakens with use over time, an it may spin a bit slower. It will, without a doubt, spin slower the lower the voltage.
Also can indicate a leak.
Also can indicate a weak internal seals in master. Mainly, ones we can't replace.

A new master assembly takes 25 to 28 pump, before pedal pressure drops.
More pump can be one or a combination of issues.
The two that may contribute the most, seem to be:
1) Accumulator, which its nitrogen depletes with time.
2) Also the master cylinder plunger assembly, seal weakens.
Other seals, in the master, may also be a factor. But they can't be replaced. It's one of these seals failing, that result in high pressure lose (dying seagull sound)

The pumps it take on pedal, mostly deals with the master. We may also get a small effect from: Flex lines, flex more with age. But this has only a very small effect as does caliper minor leaks, on pumps of pedal.

Screeching, AKA Dying Seagull sound. Is fluid under high pressure passing a non replaceable seal. This worsen in cold weather and with time. Resulting in booster motor running excessive long, working hard to keep pressure up. Which motor is only designed, to run very short duration often. Running longer than 2 minutes, is advised against in the FSM. It will lead to premature wear on motor brushes and commutator (motor failure). The seal can affect both run time and pumps on pedal.

This is only a very short duration, of fluid under high pressure passing a damaged seal "dying seagull sound". If longer duration, we'd be able to see bubbles coming up front of reservoir, associated with sound.
 
Last edited:
"Although there is a sale on now. Where master assy are only about $1K."
No! I would not replace just yet!

The only reason we have no brakes, is no hydraulic pressure. As long as fluid is in system and booster motor/pump working. We have pressure and so we have brakes.

But I would dig deeper on the 41 second and 42 pumps.

It's important for a good timing test. That ~12.5 volts gets to booster pump motor. We sometime have a drop in voltage after battery post. Number one cause is oxidation or some substance between battery post and clamp, inhibiting the current flow. I check voltage with multimeter on battery post first, then on battery cable clamps, then from positive post & then clamp to a ground on body, then ground on engine. All should read the same volts. We can also check at master, but usually I don't need too.

When flushing, we also flush the accumulator. I do this by drawing (out a rear bleeder) fluid down, until reservoir almost empty. The turn IG key off and pump pedal 40 times, evacuating accumulator into reservoir. Add equal amount of fresh fluid to reservoir, as what remains after evacuating accumulator. I repeat 5 times. Then fill reservoir and move on to flushing and bleeding all lines/calipers, make sure fluid stays above low line in reservoir. If replacing brake pad at same time. I then compress caliper pistons, with its bleeder open. Making sure, I do not get air in, and or rebleed that caliper.

The FSM tells us to re-bleed, if more than 40 seconds. As the test is to determine if air in system.
I've also found:
If other than Toyota brake fluid in system, I may get higher times.
It can also be indication booster assembly weak. As a whole assembly or just one component of it like accumulator, which they do weaken with time as nitrogen depletes.
Motor also weakens with use over time, an it may spin a bit slower. It will, without a doubt, spin slower the lower the voltage.
Also can indicate a leak.
Also can indicate a weak internal seals in master. Mainly, ones we can't replace.

A new master assembly takes 25 to 28 pump, before pedal pressure drops.
More pump can be one or a combination of issues.
The two that may contribute the most, seem to be:
1) Accumulator, which its nitrogen depletes with time.
2) Also the master cylinder plunger assembly, seal weakens.
Other seals, in the master, may also be a factor. But they can't be replaced. It's one of these seals failing, that result in high pressure lose (dying seagull sound)

The pumps it take on pedal, mostly deals with the master. We may also get a small effect from: Flex lines, flex more with age. But this has only a very small effect as does caliper minor leaks, on pumps of pedal.

Screeching, AKA Dying Seagull sound. Is fluid under high pressure passing a non replaceable seal. This worsen in cold weather and with time. Resulting in booster motor running excessive long, working hard to keep pressure up. Which motor is only designed, to run very short duration often. Running longer than 2 minutes, is advised against in the FSM. It will lead to premature wear on motor brushes and commutator (motor failure). The seal can affect both run time and pumps on pedal.

This is only a very short duration, of fluid under high pressure passing a damaged seal "dying seagull sound". If longer duration, we'd be able to see bubbles coming up front of reservoir, associated with sound.

Thanks! I'll check voltage along the run to the assembly. Luckily I haven't heard the dying seagull noise yet. Very helpful info!
 
I have about 350k in my cruiser and finally had an abs alarm from my master assembly. It's occasionally made some noise on cold days when starting for about 2 years. I had a spare master i purchased in preperation for when it started to progress. Swapped it out today.

Wanted to recommend this tool from Amazon. Cgsulit sc510 elite

It allowed me to bled the brakes exactly the same as tech steam but without using a laptop with old windows, and without using mystery Amazon cables with scketchy quality. It's a bit slow when loading certain menus but it absolutely worked to bleed the ABS system.

20250103_123829-01.jpeg
 
1999 Lx with 190K.
It took my booster 38 sec BUT the pump motor stopped for a second about midway through and then turned back on and completed.

I was able to repeat this.
Battery is at 13v.

Is this normal?

John
 
1999 Lx with 190K.
It took my booster 38 sec BUT the pump motor stopped for a second about midway through and then turned back on and completed.

I was able to repeat this.
Battery is at 13v.

Is this normal?

John
Normal. May see improvement (less time), with a full flush, using toyota brake fluid.
more info
 
Voltage getting to the motor is IMO possibly a bigger factor than fluid quality (and I do an annual fluid flush). As Paul pointed out (thank you again @2001LC ), check the electrical connections at the bottom of the booster to be sure that there is no corrosion.

Secondary but also important is the health of the battery and charging system, and for multiple reasons. For my fellow OCD-inclined friends I recommend weekly charging with a Battery Tender -- partly as a way of keeping the battery topped-up and partly as a way of monitoring battery health (i.e. length of time it takes for the Tender to switch to "float mode").
 
check the electrical connections at the bottom of the booster to be sure that there is no corrosion

Just did this for the first time on my original booster. Definitely some corrosion but looks (mostly) isolated to the screws. Any cause for concern here? I've been considering grabbing a booster during the current sale to keep on the shelf. Not noticing any screeching noises or braking issues - and I get a 36-37 second booster motor runtime running the standard test.

Screenshot 2025-04-10 at 8.58.54 AM.png
 
I think mine failed yesterday. July 1999 vehicle with around 308k or so miles - started the truck up to move it 100ft in front of my house after not driving it for 2 weeks. 50ft in, got the ABS light and beep of death. Brakes still seemed to work, parked it in front of house and turned the truck off for a few mins. Turned it back on, instant beep of death, brakes no longer work. I popped the hood and it seemed like there wasn’t any brake fluid in the reservoir but it was difficult to see at the time.

Have not had the opportunity to pull TechStream codes but I will try to check tonight.

Regardless, I’m pretty shook from the whole incident and will probably have the truck towed to a shop. I think I just want to put in brand new assemblies so that I don’t need to worry about this happening in the future, even if it turns out that this specific incident was caused by a lack of brake fluid or something.
 
Have not had the opportunity to pull TechStream codes but I will try to check tonight.
IMG_3907.jpeg

C1241, C1252, C1256. No other error messages in the system, battery voltage seems to be fine. I am pretty sure I do have some electrical gremlins since my instrument cluster periodically stops working, BUT even if it’s an electrical issue in this specific case I still think it’s worth replacing what I can here so that this doesn’t happen again for the next 200k miles.

Any advice on what part should I get to replace this? Toyota has various options, and I don’t understand exactly what is included with each of these and why the “Brake Booster Pump Assembly” is $1000 more than the one with the accumulator.

* 47960-60010 Brake Booster Pump Assembly ($1800ish)
* 47050-60041 Brake Master Cylinder Assembly with Fluid ($1430ish)
* 47070-600010 Brake Booster Pump Assembly with Accumulator ($830ish)
 
You want the complete brake booster assembly with master cylinder. Order it online from one of the southeast toyota dealers to take advantage of the 25% off sale which ends tonight.
 
You want the complete brake booster assembly with master cylinder. Order it online from one of the southeast toyota dealers to take advantage of the 25% off sale which ends tonight.
Would this be the “Brake Master Cylinder Assembly with Fluid” 47050-60041/47050-60012?

Revealing my ignorance here, does the master cylinder assembly include the brake booster? None of the parts with “Master Cylinder” in the name specifically reference the brake booster so I wasn’t sure.
 
Would this be the “Brake Master Cylinder Assembly with Fluid” 47050-60041/47050-60012?

Revealing my ignorance here, does the master cylinder assembly include the brake booster? None of the parts with “Master Cylinder” in the name specifically reference the brake booster so I wasn’t sure.

47050-60041 for a 1999
 

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