Owner Experience Thread - Miscellaneous (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter wngrog
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- Thread starter
- #62
GTFO with the Ineos stuff in the owner experience thread
- Thread starter
- #63
I don’t think it’s like that. I’m pretty sure the GX550 is being made at a different plant.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
250 is built at Tahara and Hino. GX is Tahara
SanJuanJ
SILVER Star
solid point. taken.GTFO with the Ineos stuff in the owner experience thread
No track record is the biggest red flag in my opinion.
As far as hybrids go, I don't even want a canbus vehicle out of warranty.
Yep. For me a little inline 6 mechanical diesel and something rated way past the torque behind it
Bingo.
Aesthetics are of course a matter of taste, but, for my taste, the GX design language is cartoonish.
The 250 on the other hand is poised and modest; all business, a modern classic — especially with narrow tires and round lights.
The Middle East low spec in white, on steelies, and absent window tint — with its tall, bright greenhouse — takes the cake for me.
Toyota's hybrids are the most reliable vehicles that they build. So I truly don't understand your objection.
I learned to drive in a 1969 Ford Falcon with ~100 hp carbureated inline six, a 3-speed automatic transmission, unboosted steering, and unboosted 4-wheel drum brakes. So I've driven simple cars. And you know what? They sucked compared to modern cars. They were noisy, slow, got poor fuel economy, and are unreliable compared to modern cars. I simply do not understand this nostalgic obsession with "simple" cars -- they were all crap.
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There was a video posted showing the 250, 550, 4R and 460 going down the same production line.
I picked up a 250 First Edition yesterday afternoon. I've owned an 80 series in the past and have been driving GMC Sierra Denali's for the last 6-8 years.
Very early reviews on the LC are great. Super smooth and very comfortable interior. Seats are plush and big enough for me @ 6'2", 190 lbs. Visibility is fantastic. The motor seems to have plenty of power, although this early I haven't pushed it. I have the Nitto tires and they are quieter than I expected on road. Pretty happy with those so far.
Initial set up of phone, vehicle settings, etc. is a bit clunky. But I guess once it's done it's done? It lacks storage space. The cool box is a novelty I will rarely use and from a storage standpoint it is underwhelming. Toyota should have done a two part console where just the lid can be opened to reveal a shallow tray for pens, tire pressure gauge, checkbook, brass knuckles, etc.
This is very, very early feedback based on my immediate impressions. I will check back in.
Very early reviews on the LC are great. Super smooth and very comfortable interior. Seats are plush and big enough for me @ 6'2", 190 lbs. Visibility is fantastic. The motor seems to have plenty of power, although this early I haven't pushed it. I have the Nitto tires and they are quieter than I expected on road. Pretty happy with those so far.
Initial set up of phone, vehicle settings, etc. is a bit clunky. But I guess once it's done it's done? It lacks storage space. The cool box is a novelty I will rarely use and from a storage standpoint it is underwhelming. Toyota should have done a two part console where just the lid can be opened to reveal a shallow tray for pens, tire pressure gauge, checkbook, brass knuckles, etc.
This is very, very early feedback based on my immediate impressions. I will check back in.
That's fair, and valid.
There have been a huge number of improvements in design ability through modeling and stress analysis, manufacturing, metallurgy, and chemistry in the last ten years. Never mind the last 30. That effects everything on a vehicle.
The critical one that we the consumer lose on, that has gotten better, is the cost analysis. They know where every single 1/10 of a cent can be saved. Then they weigh and measure that to the cost of a warranty claim, recall or lawsuit based on safety. That could be debated as still being better than just saying F it, you're gonna die in a crash, but they also know that people treat vehicles like crap, and the vehicle isn't going to live as long as they could. Especially in the rust belt. They know their calculus.
I personally like the F it, you're gonna die in a crash approach. It has a bit more honest feel to it.
Ever wonder what percentage of a new vehicle purchase price is made up of knowing they will have warranty/recall costs? As well as costs associated with lawsuits? As in, what would it cost if you bought a car and signed off legal rights for suing, and no matter the warranty or recall issue, you have no claim?
I don't know what that number would be, but it would be fascinating.
I currently own 3 vehicles and there's one that I wish I still had. A realistic wish I still had. Not a 69 GT500 or something uber rare and pure unobtanium.
2024 Ford F350 (It's about 7 weeks old and has ~2k miles on it)
1995 80
1976 40
I wish I still had my 1976 Datsun 280Z. And I should get another.
I mostly drive the 40, except in the winter, then I drive the 80. I only drive the Ford when I need to.
The Ford, the AC quit.
That POS has essentially no options, and was $56k. What a rip off. The one it replaced was identical and cost $8k less. AC is cold in the 80. Like make your testicles retract into you abdomen cold.
AC in the 40 is enough to keep you from dying, but that's about it.
It all depends on what you want in a vehicle. I see them as tools. I like my tools to function. So outright reliability is my most sacred of traits.
I've had less failures driving the old junk than I have the new stuff. My 21 F350 which preceded the 24 F350 shat out a power steer pump at 27k miles. Awesome....
What I don't want in a vehicle:
-Canbus - More or less one wire controlling every system. That's a hefty fail point with not enough redundancy.
-Overly complicated electronics in general.
-Automatic transmissions - There's three essential moving parts in a standard transmission. I'm not even completely certain how an automatic works. lol
-Servos - Running parking brakes, transfercase selections, in the case of automatic transmissions, gear selection.
-Automatic hubs - I also don't care for drive flanges, manual locking hubs are an acceptable middle ground
-Connectivity - If I were to finance a new vehicle through GM or Ford, (I would assume everyone has this capability as well, just those are the only two I know for certain), and I stop making payments. They just shut the vehicle off. Probably not while it's on the road, but you stop for fuel, shut it off, and it just doesn't start again. While that isn't a bad thing when it comes to delinquent financers, that's one data breach hack away from some pimple faced virgin in his mom's basement away from being a serious pain in the ass. Throw in another Gov't doing something shady. Or our own gov't deciding you shouldn't be moving around for some reason....
-In the case of diesels, they're just ruined now. I want mechanical injection and a cable to shut the fuel off. That thing will run on JP8 to vegetable oil if I need it to.
-Glass - JFC, why does a back window need to be curved in 9 axis and cost $3500?
-Why no knobs or buttons? When your screen craps the bed, not having climate control is terrible. If I've got the choice between tossing a salad or dealing with that again, I'm eating ass.
-I'm not a huge fan of power windows. I've replaced more motors and switches than I have cranks and regulators.
-Power seats. They can be just as adjustable without adding motors. Scheelmanns in my 40 prove that.
-ASM or traction control that can't be defeated. "Phuck you manufacturer, I'm stuck and need to beat this thing so I don't have to call a wrecker"
New vehicles have no soul. With some exceptions, take any type, Sedan, SUV, Pickup, debadge them and paint them flat black inside and out, and it's tough to pick out what is what within their genre. They're all designed in a wind tunnel around safety standards.
The good things to me about new vehicles:
-Cup holders
-Suspension is so much better in every regard. Spring rates, shocks, bushing materials, and geometry. So much better.
-Coatings have gotten better for rust prevention as have alloys when the coating fails. (If they even bother to paint stuff, I've got a 2k mile ford with rust on -the chassis and driveline already)
-Sound deadening/insulation (if they put it in) my 24 ford is louder than my 21 ford.
-LED lighting is a double edge sword. They live longer and have less power consumption, good. If you live in a cold climate, they freeze over, bad.
-Stereos. Man factory stereos have gotten good. You used to have to spend a fair amount of money to get sound that good. Even in the cheap rigs. Sound deadening helps the stereo immensely as well.
-Modern machining is so amazing. I have a rifle action and barrel that is soo smooth, sooooo accurate, and cheap. 30 years ago, that was a $30k+ and took months. Now its $3500 and shows up Tuesday. Same applies to engines and driveline. They're better off the shelf than almost anything balanced and blueprinted from the 1980's.
-New diesels start in just about anything, I do like that. Some of the old stuff would be a real dick on a cold morning if you didn't take precautions.
-Fuel systems. I can buy a car with 1000hp out of the box. That's nucking futs.
My solution? I just dump a vehicle when the warranty is almost up. I've had 3 pickups in 6 years.
So while many things have improved, many things have made vehicles worse for my needs.
I want to build a pickup once the 40 is done and I've financially recovered from that poor decision....
I love the 77 Ford pickups. Rust proof the snot out of it through quality coatings, put my choice of tranny/tcase/driveline under it. Maybe link it front and rear for comfort, finish out the interior however I want. Drop a mechanically injected diesel in it and turn it up to whatever I want for output.
But that's pushing $200k. and I can buy a POS where the AC stops working at 1905 miles on a hot day at 21,300 pounds and dump it 2-3 years later for another disappointment.
I had an anomaly 2001 Dodge Ram. That thing went 300k miles with no problems that I would call out of order. Some wheel bearings, a water pump, a head gasket at 240k miles (no milkshake), little stupid stuff that all happened around the 200k mark. I was spoiled by a really good vehicle and now that's my benchmark. It was a great mix of old school and new school in every respect.
Sorry, I have nothing to do at work and wanted to give a deeper explanation than "I hate new stuff"
- Thread starter
- #73
That's fair, and valid.
There have been a huge number of improvements in design ability through modeling and stress analysis, manufacturing, metallurgy, and chemistry in the last ten years. Never mind the last 30. That effects everything on a vehicle.
The critical one that we the consumer lose on, that has gotten better, is the cost analysis. They know where every single 1/10 of a cent can be saved. Then they weigh and measure that to the cost of a warranty claim, recall or lawsuit based on safety. That could be debated as still being better than just saying F it, you're gonna die in a crash, but they also know that people treat vehicles like crap, and the vehicle isn't going to live as long as they could. Especially in the rust belt. They know their calculus.
I personally like the F it, you're gonna die in a crash approach. It has a bit more honest feel to it.
Ever wonder what percentage of a new vehicle purchase price is made up of knowing they will have warranty/recall costs? As well as costs associated with lawsuits? As in, what would it cost if you bought a car and signed off legal rights for suing, and no matter the warranty or recall issue, you have no claim?
I don't know what that number would be, but it would be fascinating.
I currently own 3 vehicles and there's one that I wish I still had. A realistic wish I still had. Not a 69 GT500 or something uber rare and pure unobtanium.
2024 Ford F350 (It's about 7 weeks old and has ~2k miles on it)
1995 80
1976 40
I wish I still had my 1976 Datsun 280Z. And I should get another.
I mostly drive the 40, except in the winter, then I drive the 80. I only drive the Ford when I need to.
The Ford, the AC quit.
AC is cold in the 80. Like make your testicles retract into you abdomen cold.
AC in the 40 is enough to keep you from dying, but that's about it.
It all depends on what you want in a vehicle. I see them as tools. I like my tools to function. So outright reliability is my most sacred of traits.
I've had less failures driving the old junk than I have the new stuff. My 21 F350 which preceded the 24 F350 shat out a power steer pump at 27k miles. Awesome....
What I don't want in a vehicle:
-Canbus - More or less one wire controlling every system. That's a hefty fail point with not enough redundancy.
-Overly complicated electronics in general.
-Automatic transmissions - There's three essential moving parts in a standard transmission. I'm not even completely certain how an automatic works. lol
-Servos - Running parking brakes, transfercase selections, in the case of automatic transmissions, gear selection.
-Automatic hubs - I also don't care for drive flanges, manual locking hubs are an acceptable middle ground
-Connectivity - If I were to finance a new vehicle through GM or Ford, (I would assume everyone has this capability as well, just those are the only two I know for certain), and I stop making payments. They just shut the vehicle off. Probably not while it's on the road, but you stop for fuel, shut it off, and it just doesn't start again. While that isn't a bad thing when it comes to delinquent financers, that's one data breach hack away from some pimple faced virgin in his mom's basement away from being a serious pain in the ass. Throw in another Gov't doing something shady. Or our own gov't deciding you shouldn't be moving around for some reason....
-In the case of diesels, they're just ruined now. I want mechanical injection and a cable to shut the fuel off. That thing will run on JP8 to vegetable oil if I need it to.
-Glass - JFC, why does a back window need to be curved in 9 axis and cost $3500?
-Why no knobs or buttons? When your screen craps the bed, not having climate control is terrible. If I've got the choice between tossing a salad or dealing with that again, I'm eating ass.
-I'm not a huge fan of power windows. I've replaced more motors and switches than I have cranks and regulators.
-Power seats. They can be just as adjustable without adding motors. Scheelmanns in my 40 prove that.
-ASM or traction control that can't be defeated. "Phuck you manufacturer, I'm stuck and need to beat this thing so I don't have to call a wrecker"
New vehicles have no soul. With some exceptions, take any type, Sedan, SUV, Pickup, debadge them and paint them flat black inside and out, and it's tough to pick out what is what within their genre. They're all designed in a wind tunnel around safety standards.
The good things to me about new vehicles:
-Cup holders
-Suspension is so much better in every regard. Spring rates, shocks, bushing materials, and geometry. So much better.
-Coatings have gotten better for rust prevention as have alloys when the coating fails. (If they even bother to paint stuff, I've got a 2k mile ford with rust on -the chassis and driveline already)
-Sound deadening/insulation (if they put it in) my 24 ford is louder than my 21 ford.
-LED lighting is a double edge sword. They live longer and have less power consumption, good. If you live in a cold climate, they freeze over, bad.
-Stereos. Man factory stereos have gotten good. You used to have to spend a fair amount of money to get sound that good. Even in the cheap rigs. Sound deadening helps the stereo immensely as well.
-Modern machining is so amazing. I have a rifle action and barrel that is soo smooth, sooooo accurate, and cheap. 30 years ago, that was a $30k+ and took months. Now its $3500 and shows up Tuesday. Same applies to engines and driveline. They're better off the shelf than almost anything balanced and blueprinted from the 1980's.
-New diesels start in just about anything, I do like that. Some of the old stuff would be a real dick on a cold morning if you didn't take precautions.
-Fuel systems. I can buy a car with 1000hp out of the box. That's nucking futs.
My solution? I just dump a vehicle when the warranty is almost up. I've had 3 pickups in 6 years.
So while many things have improved, many things have made vehicles worse for my needs.
I want to build a pickup once the 40 is done and I've financially recovered from that poor decision....
I love the 77 Ford pickups. Rust proof the snot out of it through quality coatings, put my choice of tranny/tcase/driveline under it. Maybe link it front and rear for comfort, finish out the interior however I want. Drop a mechanically injected diesel in it and turn it up to whatever I want for output.
But that's pushing $200k. and I can buy a POS where the AC stops working at 1905 miles on a hot day at 21,300 pounds and dump it 2-3 years later for another disappointment.
I had an anomaly 2001 Dodge Ram. That thing went 300k miles with no problems that I would call out of order. Some wheel bearings, a water pump, a head gasket at 240k miles (no milkshake), little stupid stuff that all happened around the 200k mark. I was spoiled by a really good vehicle and now that's my benchmark. It was a great mix of old school and new school in every respect.
Sorry, I have nothing to do at work and wanted to give a deeper explanation than "I hate new stuff"
Did anyone actually read this?
Fort9378
SILVER Star
I did. Boredom at work will do crazy things to a fella. I don't agree with a lot of it, but despite what the internet tells me I don't have an issue with that
You did only have five minutes, and you do live in the south bud.
I did. Boredom at work will do crazy things to a fella. I don't agree with a lot of it, but despite what the internet tells me I don't have an issue with that
We've been groomed into having the attention span of a gnat unfortunately.
Totally agree if we’re talking vintage cars. As cool as a 60 series is for example, I wouldn’t want to daily drive one everyday or load the family up for a long roadtrip. When I think simple in term of a modern vehicle I think about my 100 series with an Apple CarPlay head unit, some more HP and better MPG. I personally don’t need or want much beyond cruise control, electric windows and locks and a good CarPlay head unit.
I’m not a big fan of all the nanny gadgets, electronics and turbos. It would be interning to see if Toyota could integrate the hybrid technology (which I’m mostly ok with given Toyota’s history) into a naturally aspirated known quantity engine. I’d be totally ok with 17-18 mpg for a simple, long term reliable vehicle, compared to the 10.5-11 mpg I’m getting in my 100.
And just so we’re clear, I totally realize that’s all a pipe dream and that every thing I don’t want is the future.
- Thread starter
- #78
I’m about to embark upon a 3 day journey to the mountains in mine. Maybe I can provide some insight beyond the current discussion of Ineos and vintage cars.
No.
That simply has not been my experience. My 2013 LC was more reliable than my ‘03 4Runner, which was far more reliable than every older vehicle that I have owned.
So what? I don’t know how an automatic transmission works either and I don’t care. All I care is that it works. If it breaks I’m not going to be the one to fix it. I’ve been driving since 1976. You know how many transmissions (automatic and manual) I’ve had fail? 0. I had some clutches replaced over the years.
What vehicles come with manual hubs these days?
Um, no. While some buy here pay here used car lots add devices to be able to shut off the car, mainstream manufacturers don’t do that. You are deep into paranoia. And are you still financing vehicles?
Thank the EPA for that.
Since 1976 do you know how many cranks and power windows I’ve had fixed? 0.
So what? My daily commute takes one hour to go 15 miles. What I care for is that it is reliable, quiet, and comfortable.
I kept my ‘03 4Runner for 13 years. I bought my 2013 Land Cruiser used and kept it for 7 years. I hope to keep my LX for a good 10 years.
Malaise era vehicles from Detroit were all crap, IMO. No thank you very much.
You have a vastly different experience and interaction with your vehicles than I do. And that's a good thing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
and no, I don't finance vehicles.
