Orion T case
- Thread starter '74 UA FJ
- Start date
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i was thinking the same, im in need.
Lot's of info to help your decision here-
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?p=802729#post802729
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?p=802729#post802729
The people that have installed the stepped thrust washer, preventing the high and low speed gears from moving for and aft on the mainshaft, have not had any issues with thier cases popping out of gear, as was reported in CruiserMax's Klub thread....
I have not done this modification to a case that is in an operational truck at this moment, but I intend on updating first, the only case of six that I have built that has popped out of high range, on a steep downhill, on road, coasting. It has not ever popped out of high range in any other driving conditions, not hard deceleration, not off road, not in low range, etc.
-Steve
I have not done this modification to a case that is in an operational truck at this moment, but I intend on updating first, the only case of six that I have built that has popped out of high range, on a steep downhill, on road, coasting. It has not ever popped out of high range in any other driving conditions, not hard deceleration, not off road, not in low range, etc.
-Steve
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
If I ever have any trouble with mine popping out. I'll address it. So far no complaints. Mine is in a rig that is streetable, but is primarily tasked as a trail rig. Driven to and from the trails. But with the long distance trails and the long runs to get to the trails I'd venture that I already have more mileage on than 90% of the other out there. Especially trail miles.
How many individuals are actually voicing their dissatisfaction with their Orions? here, Pirates or where ever. Keep duplication and overlap in mind.
Maybe 2 dozen? Maybe? More? Less?I haven't counted so I'm not c.laiming one way or the other, but it doesn't seem like that many to me.
There are a LOT more than that many units out there. I've got #38 and I was one of the early pre-production orders.
Not discounting the fact that some have given people problems and that shouldn't be the case. I would be less than happy if I were one of those guys. But I don't think that it is a large percentage of the Orions in the field that have led to this discussion.
Personally I'll be buying another soon.
Mark...
How many individuals are actually voicing their dissatisfaction with their Orions? here, Pirates or where ever. Keep duplication and overlap in mind.
Maybe 2 dozen? Maybe? More? Less?I haven't counted so I'm not c.laiming one way or the other, but it doesn't seem like that many to me.
There are a LOT more than that many units out there. I've got #38 and I was one of the early pre-production orders.
Not discounting the fact that some have given people problems and that shouldn't be the case. I would be less than happy if I were one of those guys. But I don't think that it is a large percentage of the Orions in the field that have led to this discussion.
Personally I'll be buying another soon.
Mark...
Poser said:
I think I hear you say that if I'd get off my arse and put the Orion in the truck, you could see if the stepped washers cure the problem?
Ed
It is not you Ed...
I built your case with them, but I also have the Yellow truck outside the shop that is the one that has popped out of gear, and I want to get that inside the shop and swap out the thrust washers...
Hopefully I will be done with the Warn axle removal and 30 spline Long install on the Orange truck Saturday AM, and can get after the Yellow truck...
I built your case with them, but I also have the Yellow truck outside the shop that is the one that has popped out of gear, and I want to get that inside the shop and swap out the thrust washers...
Hopefully I will be done with the Warn axle removal and 30 spline Long install on the Orange truck Saturday AM, and can get after the Yellow truck...
[QUOTE='74 UA FJ]So Poser, do you think it's just a fraction of the people that have orions that experience this problem?[/QUOTE]
There are people that have posted up they are having issues with the case, and others that have posted up that they are not. From what I have read out here, and the conversations with Randy at AA, I do not think that the majority of them in service are having issues. But, with that said, there are people that have built these that are not out here posting up their opinions, and I really do not feel that it would be a smart to assume that since we are not hearing anything out here, that there are not issues. This is a very large forum, but it is not the single source for information on the 40 series Land Cruiser, or the Orion transfer case.
There are many variables with these cases, and a very important one is who put it together, the parts used to assemble it that are not included with the Orion, and if they realized what was going on with them at the time of assembly. While it is similar to a Land Cruiser transfer case, there are little things about the assembly, that make them just different enough, and can increase the tendency for the case to come out of gear if not taken into consideration. These have been covered in previous threads, but I will list a couple below...
The free play of the high and low speed gear on the main shaft. If this is not limited, the gears could easily walk on the shaft and come in contact with the high/low speed shift collar.
Speaking of the shift collar, this needs to be a new piece, or at least, very lightly used. I have only used new ones on the cases that I have assembled. Something else that I have noticed was the difference in thickness of the shift collars found in different transfer cases, compared to a new piece. The new ones seem to .050” thinner than the older ones.
I have also only used new, or very lightly used main shafts for the assembly of the Orion. If the bushing area on the shaft where the high and low speed gears ride is worn, this will exaggerate the free play issue addressed in the first part of this list.
Another variable is the shift shaft, and its spatial relationship to the main shaft, shift fork and shift collar. There is a machining relief in the case for the retaining tab for this shaft. If this relief is cut deeper or shallower on some cases, this will position the detent locations for the shift fork on the shaft closer to the high-speed gear, or low-speed gear, depending on how deep it was cut. Something else with the shift shaft is when the bolt is tightened that retains the tab, holding the shift shaft in place, this could rotate the shaft, not allowing the ball to seat fully in the relief for it, and consequently, not having the same effect that the ball seating into the full relief would have. This would allow the ball to sit on the edge of the relief and not down in it, like it is supposed to, and keep the fork and shift collar in the selected position.
Something else that ran through my mind was if the high and low speed gears were made .125” thinner on the shift collar side, creating a larger cushion or gap between the shift collar and the gear that wants to bump it out of gear when it contacts the collar, in the event that they have another run of gears made to correct the dog teeth issue. I do not think that this is something that will happen however, and would not hold my breath.
If I have missed something, please post up, and I will add it to the list!
Thanks!
-Steve Cramer
There are people that have posted up they are having issues with the case, and others that have posted up that they are not. From what I have read out here, and the conversations with Randy at AA, I do not think that the majority of them in service are having issues. But, with that said, there are people that have built these that are not out here posting up their opinions, and I really do not feel that it would be a smart to assume that since we are not hearing anything out here, that there are not issues. This is a very large forum, but it is not the single source for information on the 40 series Land Cruiser, or the Orion transfer case.
There are many variables with these cases, and a very important one is who put it together, the parts used to assemble it that are not included with the Orion, and if they realized what was going on with them at the time of assembly. While it is similar to a Land Cruiser transfer case, there are little things about the assembly, that make them just different enough, and can increase the tendency for the case to come out of gear if not taken into consideration. These have been covered in previous threads, but I will list a couple below...
The free play of the high and low speed gear on the main shaft. If this is not limited, the gears could easily walk on the shaft and come in contact with the high/low speed shift collar.
Speaking of the shift collar, this needs to be a new piece, or at least, very lightly used. I have only used new ones on the cases that I have assembled. Something else that I have noticed was the difference in thickness of the shift collars found in different transfer cases, compared to a new piece. The new ones seem to .050” thinner than the older ones.
I have also only used new, or very lightly used main shafts for the assembly of the Orion. If the bushing area on the shaft where the high and low speed gears ride is worn, this will exaggerate the free play issue addressed in the first part of this list.
Another variable is the shift shaft, and its spatial relationship to the main shaft, shift fork and shift collar. There is a machining relief in the case for the retaining tab for this shaft. If this relief is cut deeper or shallower on some cases, this will position the detent locations for the shift fork on the shaft closer to the high-speed gear, or low-speed gear, depending on how deep it was cut. Something else with the shift shaft is when the bolt is tightened that retains the tab, holding the shift shaft in place, this could rotate the shaft, not allowing the ball to seat fully in the relief for it, and consequently, not having the same effect that the ball seating into the full relief would have. This would allow the ball to sit on the edge of the relief and not down in it, like it is supposed to, and keep the fork and shift collar in the selected position.
Something else that ran through my mind was if the high and low speed gears were made .125” thinner on the shift collar side, creating a larger cushion or gap between the shift collar and the gear that wants to bump it out of gear when it contacts the collar, in the event that they have another run of gears made to correct the dog teeth issue. I do not think that this is something that will happen however, and would not hold my breath.
If I have missed something, please post up, and I will add it to the list!
Thanks!
-Steve Cramer
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2005
- Messages
- 19
I'm seriously thinking about getting an orion. Anybody that has (or has seen) a donor T-case for sale? Which is the most desireable/ strongest donor candidate? I have a project that I just have to get going on...
Is it worth the risk? ABSOLUTELY! You win twice with this thing. 1st is housing strength (those with a V8 in their rig can appreciate this). 2nd is lower gearing. For the gearing you have to be honest with yourself about exactly what kind of wheeling you are doing that requires this. In the rocks it is a bonus, but in mud, it is moot point since most do mud in 4-high. Not having selectability from a deep 1st gear in 4wd low to notablily higher 2nd gear 4wd low, to some is a downfall. To boot you get these strengths without needing new driveshafts, so I guess that's 3 benefits. I have never had mine pop out of gear. I built it myself, as per the instructions. Note: I have never torn into a transmission or t-case before. Being inexperienced in this relm (transmission/t-case building) I can't explain why some have had the problem of popping out of gear and others do not. BUt, you asked is it worth the risk and I'll repeat ABSOLUTELY!
greasysmitty said:
'79 mainshaft /front output shaft/front colar because they're fine splined. And Warden CNC billet nose cone if you can get one.
/td
greasysmitty said:
The strongest shafts that can be used would be the ones that came in the 01-1978 to 07-1980 one piece cases. These would have the fine spline front drive coupler, and also the fine spline companion flange for the front drive shaft. It may require you to purchase a new flange for the shaft to bolt to, if you do not have one of these already.
I would try and find a parts dealer that has these in good shape used, if not new.
Good luck!
-Steve
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2005
- Messages
- 19
I found a T-case up for sale, but it’s a 10 spline/ 3 spd case and has a vacuum shifter. How would this work for an Orion swap in terms of strength of the retained parts? I know the 10 spline is the less desirable configuration, but isn’t the real weak point of the factory case the alum housing anyway? Those shafts look pretty beefy… I can’t see them ending up a weak link in a reasonably stock application. I’m looking at it seriously because it has the tranny and bellhousing I’m looking for with it. Most importantly, how practical or costly would it be to switch to a factory mechanical or twin stick shifter? Vacuum @&@&@&@& sucks. Is the nosecone the same on the vacuum shift units with the exception of the shift diaphram assy? This one looks weird to me…
And finally… where can I get new OEM parts that I would need during a rebuild? Poser mentioned using a new shift fork and some other stuff, but I haven’t found a good source for new parts.
Hopefully if I can pick up a case, I can get some work started over the holidays...
And finally… where can I get new OEM parts that I would need during a rebuild? Poser mentioned using a new shift fork and some other stuff, but I haven’t found a good source for new parts.
Hopefully if I can pick up a case, I can get some work started over the holidays...
