Orion gear info...

[Poser]

What is the problem with the difference in width of the shift collar?

If you install one of the older, thicker shift collars, it will hit the high-speed gear for sure, and prevent the fork from locking into position on the detent, on the shift fork rail. I have proven this when I had Orion case 150 disassembled to install the stepped thrust washers last week. In a perfect world, the shift collar would be permitted to ride flush with the face of the gear, and the free-play of the gear on the main shaft would not have any effect on knocking the case out of gear.

However, if you have a collar that is .050”+ thicker than a new Toyota one, and have a high speed gear that has .025” free play, and looks as though it could be thicker than a stock high speed gear, you can see where there would be a shift collar trying to occupy the same space that the gear is in, when trying to select high range, and preventing the fork from positively seating into position on the shift rail. Further, if you leave the free play of the high-speed gear at .025”, this would also give the gear the chance to move towards the shift collar, and knock it out of gear.


I believe that the same could easily happen with the low range gear in the Orion. The location of the shift rail in the case, relative to the main shaft is something that I have thought for some time that could be inconsistent between cases. This could be why some cases pop out of low range, and stay in high range without issue, and vise versa.


I pulled out a few more gears from other transfer cases that I have disassembled over the years, and you can see on the four speed, one piece transfer case low speed gear, that there are dog teeth that are different sizes staggered around the gear hub. None of them however, have a taper design similar to the mini truck gears that were posted in the other thread.



-Steve Cramer

 

[Poser]

Undercut high-speed gear.



Just got off the phone with Randy at Advance Adapters.


Advance Adapters is removing .100” from the face of the high-speed gear that touches/interferes with the shift collar, preventing the shift collar from staying in high range. Apparently, they have been doing this for a little while now, and when used in conjunction with the new shift rail, ball, spring and hex screw, and stepped thrust washers, it seems to have ended any issues that people were having with the high-low shift collar riding on the gear, preventing the ball in the shift fork assembly from fully seating in the shift rail, and permitting the gear to move and knock the case into neutral.


Also, as has been posted up in other threads, they are making a new shift rail, ball, spring, and brass hex screw to provide proper tension on the detent and shift fork assembly. They are also going to be sending along new stepped thrust washers in the new kits. These parts will be available to those who want them, from my understanding, free of charge.


If you take your case apart, and send them the high-speed gear, they will remove .100” off the face of the gear for you, again, from my understanding, free of charge.



Thank you Randy for all of your hard work with this project.



-Steve Cramer

 

[spotcruiser]

Thanks Steve. I'll be contacting Randy.

Todd Bull.

 

[cpg]

Yes under cut gear you can do it. or get one from Randy. That and the Stepped washers. I went to .004 clearance (was .025" and .0234") . Thinner collar(new).
Never pops out any more and used to very bad. It seems that the thrust clearance was the main issue for my case. + the undercutting of the gear.
Some other mods also but those two are the main fixes. If you are having problems.

 

[71-CRUISER]

That is exactly the info that I was waiting for. The exact reason I will never buy a car that is from the first year of a production run.

Any news as to if AA is going to offer a fully assembled case?

 

[treerootCO]

I bought the last year production Tahoe. 2000 Classic with the 350. Quality sucks and always has so what is your point?

I am glad we are getting closer to the fix. Until I get the thrust washers in mine I will try to be as optimistic as possible.

 

[71-CRUISER]

I bought the last year production Tahoe. 2000 Classic with the 350. Quality sucks and always has so what is your point?

Well that is what you get for buying a Tahoe.

My point was that it is usualy better to wait till the inevitable bugs get worked out of any new product.

 

[Poser]

Any news as to if AA is going to offer a fully assembled case?

Not at this time.




Call MAF, they are offering one.



Good luck!


-Steve

 

[1Fine40]

Just another thought on this stepped washer thing. Could a guy get the output shaft shoulder where the thrust washer resides machined down to get the desired clearance? I think the end result would be the same although the shaft is definitely hardened material.....Just a thought.....I measured my clearances and I'm at .024" on the Hi side and .027" on the Lo side. So I guess I'm looking for a reduction of .016" on Hi side and .019" on the Lo side to get that magic
.008" on each side(per Brian @ AA)
Decisions, decisions.....Guess a guy could just machine which ever part is cheaper! Or wait for AA to send me some! (Could be a long time.....)
Thanks to Steve and Randy and anyone else who has lead the way on this, I do appreciate your expertise and time invested here
Rich

 

[Poser]

You could cut the shaft, but it is not something that I would do....the washer is the less expensive option....and easier to put metal back on in the event it was cut too much.



Good luck!


-Steve

 

[1Fine40]

Good point....Washers are cheap!

 

[FJ40onNOS]

hey the orions still staying in gear?

 

[cpg]

I would not cut the case hardened shaft. You would not want to expose the softer core to the Thrust loads over time it will deform. Also when you make a washer use a heat treated harndened metal. The washer will need to resist wear from rotation abrasion and impact from the thrust load. If you are making your own and have measured your clearances I would use .003" to .005" clearance. It seems the only need for clearance is to allow oil in to lubricate. At .004" all has been very good so far.

 

[peesalot]

#100 , no spacer on input ala treeroot , no spacer between hi/lo ala poser , and runnin fine. no metal flake fluid and viewed thru inspection plate on side no abnormal wear on gears or case.

Does someone wanna sell the Wardens nose cone yet ?

 

[Poser]

Those are a very nice piece of art John.

 

[peesalot]

yup , heard somethin bout somebody who frequents this board might have one or more ?
I might just ditch the tcase e-brake for line locks and get the HD front output and matching rear from A/A for the orion.

 

[1Fine40]

Just a random thought here....if AA is going to machine .100" off the face of the hi-speed gear to keep it from slapping the shift ring, why are they not going to do likewise for the lo-speed gear?

Cheers!

 

[Poser]

There is not an interference issue with the low speed gear like there is with the high-speed gear. I am hoping to have two new high-speed gears (the ones that have been machined .100”) along with the new stepped thrust washers, shift rail, shift rail ball, spring and screw assemblies, by next Friday. I will post up pictures (unless Rich beats me to it) when I am assembling the other Orions.




This should end any issue with the case popping out of gear.



-Steve

 

[65swb45]

I gotta camera too, and I might be getting mine on Monday!

 

[1Fine40]

There is not an interference issue with the low speed gear like there is with the high-speed gear. I am hoping to have two new high-speed gears (the ones that have been machined .100”) along with the new stepped thrust washers, shift rail, shift rail ball, spring and screw assemblies, by next Friday. I will post up pictures (unless Rich beats me to it) when I am assembling the other Orions.




This should end any issue with the case popping out of gear.



-Steve

Ooooh, Oooooh a race! I love races, but I bet Poser wins....My day job gets in my way pretty much Wah, Wah!