Orion gear info... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Poser
- Start date
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Just put the kit into my Orion (thanks treeroot & Perry). I had more than .030 of slop at the HS gear, so I used the deepest thrust washer and got it back to .010, which is within the spec according to AA. Interestingly enough I had to put an extra .002 shim on the output side this time to get the preload right. We'll see how it does. Probably sometime this summer if I ever get the thing all put back together. 
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
I dropped the Orion today and sent my gear in to AA to be machined. (Mine had worn in so Brian felt better about machining the old one instead of sending a new one).
Specs call for .008" to .012"
This is a before shot and I am at .025"
Specs call for .008" to .012"
This is a before shot and I am at .025"
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treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
I added a new stepped washer to the one side. Should we also shim the other side as well? By using both stepped washers from AA, I can make it like the pics below. .009 and .008.
Here is where I am now.
Here is where I am now.
- Thread starter
- #65
Yes!!! Use both step washers!!! One for the high-speed gear and bearing and one for the low speed gear and bearing....
You will need to reset your mainshaft bearing pre-load, as installing these washers will move the bearings and will require the rear race to move inward also...
You will need to reset your mainshaft bearing pre-load, as installing these washers will move the bearings and will require the rear race to move inward also...
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
ok, just checking. I got confused there for a bit because all the work that was done on the high speed gear. In my mind, nobody had a problem with them popping out of gear in high, so I made the assumption the little gear was the low speed gear. Was there a problem with high gear as well? Mine only came out of gear when I was in low.
I used both stepped washers and ended up at .009 on the low speed gear and .008 on the high speed gear.
I used both stepped washers and ended up at .009 on the low speed gear and .008 on the high speed gear.
mine eventually did pop out of low, but not high......yet.
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
ok....I don't want to jinx it but...
I love my Orion now!!!
I am glad I took the time to fix the Orion before Moab. The pics don't do it justice. All I know is neutral is not the gear for this hill...
I love my Orion now!!!
I am glad I took the time to fix the Orion before Moab. The pics don't do it justice. All I know is neutral is not the gear for this hill...
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Still confused.
After reading everythng I could find I'm still a little confused.
My Orion is popping out of Hi and Lo, only when going downhill in compression.
I called AA and got a fix kit.
In the kit was;
One detent ball
One detent spring
One hex screw retainer
Two Shift rails
Zero washers
Zero instructions (I couldn't find anything on their site either.)
Since they had the serial number of my case, and didn't send washers, can I assume that I have the modified gears?
Are the modified thrust washers required in every case?
When I talked to AA they mentioned something about driving the old shift rail out with one of the new ones so the old detent ball wouldn't fall into the case. I kind of get what they are talking about.
To further complicate things I have a Toy box, so the shifter cover is under the floor board. So getting to the case will require pulling the drive train, angling it down, removing bolts and clocking it around or something.
It is important to me that I get this right the first time. After over a year of working on my Cruiser this is the last issue. The bad news is I blew out something in my right wrist last weekend and am not allowed to do any heavy lifting or put any strain on it for a month. Waiting that long would pretty much kill any chances of doing any trips in the Sierra this season.
So if I can con some of my buddies into "helping" (read do all the work while I lend moral support) I will probably only have one shot at getting it right. I have zero budget left to have a shop do the work, assuming there was a shop I trusted to do it.
I apoligize if I sound whiney, but I am very disappointed right now.
And thanks in advance for your help.
After reading everythng I could find I'm still a little confused.
My Orion is popping out of Hi and Lo, only when going downhill in compression.
I called AA and got a fix kit.
In the kit was;
One detent ball
One detent spring
One hex screw retainer
Two Shift rails
Zero washers
Zero instructions (I couldn't find anything on their site either.)
Since they had the serial number of my case, and didn't send washers, can I assume that I have the modified gears?
Are the modified thrust washers required in every case?
When I talked to AA they mentioned something about driving the old shift rail out with one of the new ones so the old detent ball wouldn't fall into the case. I kind of get what they are talking about.
To further complicate things I have a Toy box, so the shifter cover is under the floor board. So getting to the case will require pulling the drive train, angling it down, removing bolts and clocking it around or something.
It is important to me that I get this right the first time. After over a year of working on my Cruiser this is the last issue. The bad news is I blew out something in my right wrist last weekend and am not allowed to do any heavy lifting or put any strain on it for a month. Waiting that long would pretty much kill any chances of doing any trips in the Sierra this season.
So if I can con some of my buddies into "helping" (read do all the work while I lend moral support) I will probably only have one shot at getting it right. I have zero budget left to have a shop do the work, assuming there was a shop I trusted to do it.
I apoligize if I sound whiney, but I am very disappointed right now.
And thanks in advance for your help.
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
You are going to need to pull the t-case (100lbs approx). The clearances between the high and the low speed gears should be between .008" to .012". There are pics on this page, post #63 is a before shot, post #64 is the after shot. If you are not within the specs of .008" to .012" on both the high and low speed gears, you need the stepped washers that AA should have included in the kit. The pics should explain where to measure. The high speed gear will need to be machined out as well so the shift coller won't get bumped by it when in high gear. In my opinion the shift rail isn't necessary if you make the other clearance changes mentioned above. I went ahead and added the new shift rail as a security blanket and because I really do not want to pull the case ever again.
post number 47 on this thread is a picture of the fix kit.
post number 47 on this thread is a picture of the fix kit.
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rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Poser I think the SN is 211.
Kind of a moot point right now. Since I had the help available and only the parts from AA we ran with just the detent ball/shift rail/spring/hex screw. It was late by the time we finished so I didn't do a good test. I'll try to get up in the hills tonight to see if the problem is fixed.
I guess if it works it will say something.
Kind of a moot point right now. Since I had the help available and only the parts from AA we ran with just the detent ball/shift rail/spring/hex screw. It was late by the time we finished so I didn't do a good test. I'll try to get up in the hills tonight to see if the problem is fixed.
I guess if it works it will say something.
I was wonder how long til this was all sorted.
Undercutting.
I undercut 2nd gear in my 1986 and 88 FJ1200's to keep them from popping out of gear.
If this is all it needs to stay in gear maybe its time to start saving for my Orion.
Undercutting.
I undercut 2nd gear in my 1986 and 88 FJ1200's to keep them from popping out of gear.
If this is all it needs to stay in gear maybe its time to start saving for my Orion.
- Thread starter
- #74
rusty_tlc said:
I would not say that it is a moot point. By operating the vehicle with the transfer case in high range, and the shift collar effectively trying to be in the same location as the high speed gear and not being able to, this will cause the collar to be pushed back against the shift fork, and increase wear of the shift fork, eventually creating more drama at a later date.
I would call Randy at AA and have him verify what case serial numbers started getting the machined high speed gear in the kit and the stepped thrust washers. If your case does not fall into that group, I would take the case down and install the updates as not doing so, will only be asking for trouble and could cause an even larger pain in the ass trying to get them to help you out at a later date when something happens and raises hell with other goodies in the system.
Good luck!
-Steve
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Thanks Poser I'll do it first thing in the AM.
Just found this thread and read it all. Very interesting information. I have an Orion from the first batch shipped and it has not popped out of gear yet. However, reading Poser's post I thought it might be a good idea to get the "update" kit and check the clearances. I called AA and talked to the guy "who builds the Orions" (did not get his name) and he offered to send a new ball and spring for free but the washers are $27.00 and the new rail is $27.60. They will undercut the gear for free if I send it to them.
I'm not dissapointed in the charges, or the Orion, mine has never popped out of gear, I just want to let everyone know that the "free" in post #22 is no more.
Gary
I'm not dissapointed in the charges, or the Orion, mine has never popped out of gear, I just want to let everyone know that the "free" in post #22 is no more.
Gary
Poser said:
Blue77FJ40
SILVER Star
That bites.
- Thread starter
- #78
Gary-
I am sure that if you told them that your case has not popped out of gear, then they have no reason to send you the update pieces for free, since you do not have an issue....
Had you told them that you were having issues, I am sure it would have been a different story....
I am sure that if you told them that your case has not popped out of gear, then they have no reason to send you the update pieces for free, since you do not have an issue....
Had you told them that you were having issues, I am sure it would have been a different story....
I don't disagree with you. I was going with your theory from above:
> Originally Posted by Poser
> By operating the vehicle with the transfer case in high >range, ...eventually creating more drama at a later date.
>
> If your case does not fall into that group, I would take the case down and >install the updates as not doing so, will only be asking for trouble and could >cause an even larger pain in the ass trying to get them to help you out at a >later date when something happens and raises hell with other goodies in the >system.
If I have excess wear from a mis-designed/spec'd set of T-case parts and it "raises hell" with the whole t-case down the road then perhaps they do have a reason to send me the updates. Hopefully they will support me if the clearance issues cause more trouble later.
>Had you told them that you were having issues, I am sure it would have been >a different story....
By the "Guru's" own admission he had "never" assembled an Orion that was not out of spec. By default I am having issues if the innards are not to spec, popping out of gear or not.
Again, I love my Orion, it has never popped out of gear. But the more I think about it, you were right when you suggested install the updates anyway because the Orion is almost guaranteed to be out of spec.
Gary
> Originally Posted by Poser
> By operating the vehicle with the transfer case in high >range, ...eventually creating more drama at a later date.
>
> If your case does not fall into that group, I would take the case down and >install the updates as not doing so, will only be asking for trouble and could >cause an even larger pain in the ass trying to get them to help you out at a >later date when something happens and raises hell with other goodies in the >system.
If I have excess wear from a mis-designed/spec'd set of T-case parts and it "raises hell" with the whole t-case down the road then perhaps they do have a reason to send me the updates. Hopefully they will support me if the clearance issues cause more trouble later.
>Had you told them that you were having issues, I am sure it would have been >a different story....
By the "Guru's" own admission he had "never" assembled an Orion that was not out of spec. By default I am having issues if the innards are not to spec, popping out of gear or not.
Again, I love my Orion, it has never popped out of gear. But the more I think about it, you were right when you suggested install the updates anyway because the Orion is almost guaranteed to be out of spec.
Gary
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
I had a long talk with Advanced Adapters this morning.
The light came on for me and I think I really understand the issue.
Don't ask me to explain it, I stink at that.
The bottom line is they are sending me a new gear, at n/c.
They also spent a lot of time explaining the issues and how to install the gear with the minimum hassel.
Not sending the gear in the first place is the only snafu I have ever had with them.
And I have bought a lot of their stuff, had my Orion case modified for the Toy Box, etc. etc.
I would rate them at 10 on the customer service scale.
The light came on for me and I think I really understand the issue.
Don't ask me to explain it, I stink at that.
The bottom line is they are sending me a new gear, at n/c.
They also spent a lot of time explaining the issues and how to install the gear with the minimum hassel.
Not sending the gear in the first place is the only snafu I have ever had with them.
And I have bought a lot of their stuff, had my Orion case modified for the Toy Box, etc. etc.
I would rate them at 10 on the customer service scale.
