Open discussion: Should High Desert Cruisers continue as a TLCA Chapter?

[Beowulf]

As the thread title says, "Should HDC continue as a TLCA chapter?"

Feel free to discuss this openly. If there are things you would rather keep private then the January meeting will provide you the opportunity for discussion in person and we will have the opportunity to vote on this topic at the January meeting.

This has nothing to do with your personal TLCA membership. You would still have the same benefits of TLCA membership and there is no difference in the cost to you if HDC is a TLCA chapter or if HDC is not a TLCA chapter. The main difference is that your participation and membership in TLCA would become an option for you instead of a requirement for membership in HDC.

Things to ponder.
Our bylaws state that we will be a TLCA chapter and that membership in TLCA is a prerequisite for membership in HDC.
TLCA chapters are entitled to representation at the board level of TLCA.
As a TLCA chapter, our club name and contact information appears in the Toyota Trails magazine.

ARTICLE IV - CHAPTERS

1. A minimum of six (6) individual TLCA members, in good standing, who are owner operators may submit an application to become a Chapter.
2. The applying Chapter must submit a formal letter of application to the TLCA BOD and Bylaws for BOD approval prior to being voted upon for chapter membership. Application via email is acceptable.
3. Bylaws must include clauses that establish the following:
   1. A goal or objective of the Chapter is to "Support the TLCA."
   2. All Chapter members eligible to join TLCA must join and remain current members in TLCA.
   3. Chapter rosters may not exceed 30 percent non-TLCA members and non-TLCA members may not be used in constituting a quorum.
4. To be a "Chapter in Good Standing" the Chapter must comply with the following:
   1. Retain all Bylaws clauses from Section C above.
   2. Maintain four (4) current members who are TLCA members.
   3. Submit a current Delegate form.
   4. Be current on all financial obligations to the TLCA.
   5. Submit a roster of members yearly or as called for by the BOD.
5. Privileges of Chapters in Good Standing:
   1. Entitled to advertising privileges and discounts in the Toyota Trails.
   2. Invited to all BOD meetings.
   3. Invited to participate in all TLCA hosted and sanctioned events (participant and vehicle restrictions may be set by the event hosts).
   4. Entitled to one voting Delegate at all TLCA BOD meetings.
   5. Entitled to access and coverage by TLCA insurance.
   6. Access to the sanctioning of events by TLCA.
6. Responsibilities of Chapters in good standing:
   1. Each Chapter is responsible for registering their Delegate or Alternate Delegate including any changes, with the TLCA Secretary, using the appropriate Delegate Forms.
   2. Each Delegate or Alternate Delegate shall be a member of the Chapter they are representing.
   3. A Delegate or Alternate Delegate shall only represent one Chapter.
   4. Each Chapter shall submit a roster of members yearly or as called for by the BOD. This roster shall be submitted to both the TLCA Secretary and Membership Services.

-Mike-

 

[1911]

I have no beef with the TLCA. I've only been a member for 3.5 years so maybe I'm missing something (more than the recent spate of political drama at the BOD/executive level?). I love TT magazine, and have enjoyed the TLCA-sanctioned events that I've attended and wheeled at. So, I see no reason to disassociate but am open-minded to hearing possible reasons/benefits as to why we might consider it.

 

[Beowulf]

There are a number of TLCA rules that the club must agree to and follow for us to maintain our status as a TLCA chapter. I'll see if I can track down a complete list and edit post #1.

(OK, chapter requirements added in post #1)


Note that 3-2 says that everyone that is a member of HDC and owns a 4x4 Toyota must join TLCA. We can have up to 30% non-Toyota members and they don't have to join TLCA (not to mention that they are not eligible to join TLCA... dumb rule if you ask me.)

I believe that Rising Sun has about 10 members that are not members of TLCA and those members have no interest in joining for various reasons. RS is obviously a TLCA chapter since the president of TLCA is a RS member so it must be a loosely followed rule. Maybe they just don't list those guys on the chapter in good standing form or maybe all of those guys don't own a Toyota 4x4.

-Mike-

 

[Cruisergreg]

Ya know, at this point we are not getting much out of TLCA as a chapter. The BOD involvement seems taxing and unpleasant for the reps. I wouldn't have a problem with terminating the association between us and them and it would probably make us more attractive to potential new members because they wouldn't have be joining this and joining that when their interest is only midly piqued. That said, I also think we should get back to a little more structure on our side by adding to the by-laws specific requirements like a signed liability waiver as part of the application form, cursory equipment check and safety readiness before each run, no alcohol on official runs, etc.

 

[SteveLCetc]

I agree I don't see much benefit out of TLCA right now. I also agree we should talk about it at the January meeting.

 

[evanz80]

Thanks to Mike for getting this thread started.

I'm interested in sharing some of my experiences as the recent TLCA Board rep here on this thread, but I'm swamped for the next couple of days. I will get some thoughts posted up here at least by this weekend.

Evan

 

[alia176]

I agree I don't see much benefit out of TLCA right now.

I'm curious what perceived benefits did we ever have by hanging with TLCA. Just wondering..

 

[Beowulf]

I'm curious what perceived benefits did we ever have by hanging with TLCA. Just wondering..

When I joined the club in 2001 there were very few ways to communicate the existence of a local club focused on off-roading and Toyota vehicles. The "Local Chapters" page in Toyota Trails magazine offered a way for the club to gain visibility to people with similar interests and hopefully to build membership. Basically free advertising which I think is still important for recruiting.

The other benefit to the club is representation at the national level. We hold a vote at the board level; with the same clout as a large club like Rising Sun. It seems like there are ~20 chapters with about 15 represented at any given meeting. One would think that we would have some influence in TLCA decisions.

IMHO, none of the other benefits hold any value for us; advertising in TT, discounts, access to sanctioning of events, access to insurance, and invitations to events.

Any TLCA member or even non-members can advertise in TT. Every TLCA member is invited to events and is eligible for "TLCA discount". If HDC has plans to host an event and if we intend to have that event sanctioned by TLCA then being a Chapter in good standing would be important. Frankly, I don't see that happening.

-Mike-

 

[BionicCruiser]

I, for one, found the club soley through TLCA. yes, that was in a time with less web and comunication.
other than that, we get free entry to Rubithon for being in a chapter(outside Ca.).
yes, I know we don't have a presence there like Moab, and that has benefited only 3 members so far. it's a half joke.

I do have some more ideas, but they would be better to bring up at the meeting, off a public forum.

bottom line is, we will be a club no matter what happens of course.

 

[marcfj60]

I also found the club through the TLCA. I think I joined it before I knew about the club. But I don't know what percentage of people have come the club through TLCA and what other methods people have found out about us. We would no longer get to be in the club section of MUD, would we? Then only people doing a web search might find us, or by invitation from existing members or lurkers. Does the club function under the insurance umbrella of TLCA or is that only at TLCA events?

 

[Daisy 53]

I'm indifferent to the whole thing. I can see that being part the TLCA could allow us to meet and greet with other clubs, but how often do we do that? I found HDC before I found TLCA and would probably not have joined TLCA for a little bit.
Just my opinion...

Daisy
PS, if we arent a club, do we get to use this part of mud??

 

[pappy]

Aside from having to file some paperwork, what is the down side to being an affiliated TLCA chapter?

 

[SteveLCetc]

Paying dues to TLCA.

 

[Beowulf]

We would no longer get to be in the club section of MUD, would we?

This section of 'Mud is for any club and does not require the club to be a TLCA chapter.

Does the club function under the insurance umbrella of TLCA or is that only at TLCA events?

Access to the insurance would happen if we were to sponsor a TLCA sanctioned event. The club would still be required to pay for the insurance.

PS, if we arent a club, do we get to use this part of mud??

Yes, we would still have this section on 'Mud according to Woody and he owns IH8MUD. I need to double check the stats, but I believe he said that only 30% of the clubs using this section of IH8MUD are TLCA chapters.

Aside from having to file some paperwork, what is the down side to being an affiliated TLCA chapter?

The only downside that seems relevant is that all HDC members that own a Toyota 4x4 have to join TLCA whether they want to or not. Filing the paperwork is a non-issue as far as I am concerned.

Paying dues to TLCA.

Just to be clear, HDC does not pay any dues to TLCA. Every member of HDC that owns a 4x4 Toyota is required to be a dues-paying current member of TLCA.

-Mike-

 

[OGBeno]

There are two reasons to be a member of the TLCA:

1. Toyota Trails
2. To go to the Rubithon

I like both and intend to continue my own personal membership with the TLCA.

I do not think it should be a requirement for HDC members to also be members of the TLCA.

I also do not think HDC should justify its own existence purely on the basis of being a member of the TLCA.

The NorCal Wagon crew are one of the best Land Cruiser/Toyota groups in North America and they have no associate whatsoever with the TLCA.

Personally, I think the TLCA's time is drawing short. The fact of the matter is that most people who buy Toyotas are buying Tacomas/Tundras/FJCruisers.

Personally, I prefer the TLCA to be Land Cruiser exclusive. But this is no longer the case. I am not interested in seeing "numbers" in terms of having more members. The more seems to be worse than exclusivity, but this is my own $.02.

 

[Cruisergreg]

I will admit that I found HDC through TLCA, but that was 1999, long before the Interweb or The Google were handy tools. The more I think about this the more I can't see a reason to maintain chapter status. I agree with Mike that realistically we're never going to host a sanctioned event and as long as people can obtain the benefits from TLCA on an individual level the chapter status is irrelevant. Frankly, when the TLCA baggage comes up either on MUD or at our meetings I cringe. I don't care about it and I don't want to hear it. It's buzz-kill.

 

[SteveLCetc]

Every member of HDC that owns a 4x4 Toyota is required to be a dues-paying current member of TLCA.

-Mike-

I think that is a strong negative factor in people becoming members of HDC.

 

[Rudical]

I pretty much agree with Onur. I probably will keep my TLCA membership (I can decide in 2012). If TLCA doesn't help us much, why should those that want to part of the club have to pay the extra dues to the TLCA if they don't read TT or go to the sanctioned events. I don't know all the by-laws and political crap so time for a stupid question. If HDC decides to stay as a chapter of TLCA is there any way to allow those who only want to be a HDC member but not the TLCA be considered as some sort of "associate member" of HDC? Of course they would not get any of TLCA "benifits", but still be a member of HDC.

 

[BionicCruiser]

...is there any way to allow those who only want to be a HDC member but not the TLCA be considered as some sort of "associate member" of HDC? Of course they would not get any of TLCA "benifits", but still be a member of HDC.

that will be for meeting discussion.

 

[Beowulf]

If HDC decides to stay as a chapter of TLCA is there any way to allow those who only want to be a HDC member but not the TLCA be considered as some sort of "associate member" of HDC? Of course they would not get any of TLCA "benifits", but still be a member of HDC.

Good suggestion Rudy.

-Mike-