One more speaker / amp thread [2024]

[wisemonkey]

I've decided to upgrade amp and speakers (after updating just stereo and realizing that's not enough)
Planning to use this thread as documentation and get any suggestions

Plan (Let me know if all that sounds logically correct):
1. Use 4 channel amp supporting both 4ohm and 2ohm speakers.
2. Use 4 ohm speakers in front 2x6.5 inch shallow mount, 2x4 inch,
3. Use either 4ohm or 2ohm in rear 2x5.25 inch
3. Front door and dash (2x6.5 inch shallow and 2x4inch) are in parallel so 2ohm mode of amp would help
4. Rear door (2x5.25inch) speakers would work on whatever ohm mode
5. Use mono channel amp for sub
6. Get 4inch? (not sure about original size) sub OR fit a little bigger one in there

Now for actual products - these are not finalized (this is where suggestions would help):
AMP: Rockford Fosgate R2-500X4 - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575R2500X4/Rockford-Fosgate-R2-500X4.html (75W at 4ohm and 125W at 2ohm)
Speakers:
Front door:
Amazon.com - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FUZV7ZG/ (55W)
Infinity Reference REF607F - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R607F/Infinity-Reference-REF607F.html (Are these shallow?) (60W)
Rear door:
Polk Audio MM 522 - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107MM522/Polk-Audio-MM-522.html (4ohm @ 80W)
Front dash:
Kicker KSC40 - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20651KSC40/Kicker-KSC40.html (4ohm @75W)

Total front speakers: ~130W, amp 125W @2ohm
Rear speakers: 75W, amp 75W

Sub amp: Rockford Fosgate R2-500X1 - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575R2500X1/Rockford-Fosgate-R2-500X1.html (300W @4ohm)
Subwoofer: couldn't find anything around 4inches, maybe I can fit a little bigger in there?

Planning to put 4 channel amp behind glove box.
mono amp can sit near sub itself (removing 6 CD box)

[EDIT] Fuse box:

1. Blue Sea Fuse Box Mounting options etc - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/blue-sea-fuse-box-mounting-options-etc.966156/

Apart from all this: can I source rear panel from 80 series land cruiser somewhere? (to install bigger sub if needed)

 

[Pascoscout]

Just go 4ohm all the way around. 2ohm is fine for a sub but you sacrifice too much sound quality to use them in a coaxial setup. The only reason to go 2ohm is if you are going to wire two 2ohm speakers in series to get 4 ohms. And if you need that many speakers you're going to get better sound quality and adjustability by going to a 6 channel amp.

Skip the 4" in dash speakers in the front. The size of them limits them to high frequencies and those are directional. You get very little benefit from them for the cost cause they basically point right at the floor, so all the sound goes there. If you want more highs up front you're far better getting a component system and getting a tweeter mount from Solvefunction. If you insist on keeping the in dash, and don't want a 6 channel amp, then rewire everything to have them be in series vs parallel.

If you're going through all this work run new, larger, high quality speaker wires from your amp to your speakers. The factory wiring in undersized for the kind of power you'll be running and it will reduce sound quality. It's also unshielded so you get more interference.

For speaker brands consider Hertz. Their shallow mount 6.5inch Hertz DCX 170.3 Dieci series car audio coaxial - https://hertz-audio.com/product/car-audio-coaxials-dieci-dcx170_3-2/ worked great in the front door of my LC. No spacer needed, just installed it on top of the door card. They sound really good too. I went 6.5 Hertz DCX 160.3 Dieci series car audio coaxial speaker - https://hertz-audio.com/product/dcx-160-3/ in the rear but had to run a spacer and cut some sheet metal. I did not care about keeping the factory look so I used the old school mesh grills. I may paint them to match someday but the black looks fine.

I used a similar 4 channel Fosgate amp for mine. It was designed for UTV use so its small and it fit in the space where the factory amp used to be.

Can't go wrong with Fosgate for a sub amp either. I've since moved away from building big systems, but I had a punch gold series amp that lasted over 20 years (may still work for all I know it went with my last truck when I sold it).

I believe the factory sub location is 6". Honestly its not worth the time and money to put that size in there so if you're going to do it go to at least 8" or even 10". There are a number of write ups on how to build a box for the factory location. This has been on my to-do list for a while but still haven't gotten around to it.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Skip the 4" in dash speakers in the front. The size of them limits them to high frequencies and those are directional. You get very little benefit from them for the cost cause they basically point right at the floor, so all the sound goes there. If you want more highs up front you're far better getting a component system and getting a tweeter mount from Solvefunction.

This is what I intend to do at some point. Just not quite sure how much of the 3d printed look is visible on the solvefunction mounts. Would love to see some clear pics of them installed vs fuzzy pics on Solvefunction webpage.


What size speaker cable would you suggest for doors?

 

[wisemonkey]

Just go 4ohm all the way around. 2ohm is fine for a sub but you sacrifice too much sound quality to use them in a coaxial setup. The only reason to go 2ohm is if you are going to wire two 2ohm speakers in series to get 4 ohms. And if you need that many speakers you're going to get better sound quality and adjustability by going to a 6 channel amp.

Skip the 4" in dash speakers in the front. The size of them limits them to high frequencies and those are directional. You get very little benefit from them for the cost cause they basically point right at the floor, so all the sound goes there. If you want more highs up front you're far better getting a component system and getting a tweeter mount from Solvefunction. If you insist on keeping the in dash, and don't want a 6 channel amp, then rewire everything to have them be in series vs parallel.

If you're going through all this work run new, larger, high quality speaker wires from your amp to your speakers. The factory wiring in undersized for the kind of power you'll be running and it will reduce sound quality. It's also unshielded so you get more interference.

For speaker brands consider Hertz. Their shallow mount 6.5inch Hertz DCX 170.3 Dieci series car audio coaxial - https://hertz-audio.com/product/car-audio-coaxials-dieci-dcx170_3-2/ worked great in the front door of my LC. No spacer needed, just installed it on top of the door card. They sound really good too. I went 6.5 Hertz DCX 160.3 Dieci series car audio coaxial speaker - https://hertz-audio.com/product/dcx-160-3/ in the rear but had to run a spacer and cut some sheet metal. I did not care about keeping the factory look so I used the old school mesh grills. I may paint them to match someday but the black looks fine.

I used a similar 4 channel Fosgate amp for mine. It was designed for UTV use so its small and it fit in the space where the factory amp used to be.

Can't go wrong with Fosgate for a sub amp either. I've since moved away from building big systems, but I had a punch gold series amp that lasted over 20 years (may still work for all I know it went with my last truck when I sold it).

I believe the factory sub location is 6". Honestly its not worth the time and money to put that size in there so if you're going to do it go to at least 8" or even 10". There are a number of write ups on how to build a box for the factory location. This has been on my to-do list for a while but still haven't gotten around to it.

Thanks for detailed write up. (let me know if I got the gist)
1. No point caring about dash speaker - hence no need of 2ohm amp mode
2. Instead think about 6 channel amp (if I must) with tweeters on pillar (but yes as other poster mentioned, I would like more pics / video of Solvefunction)
Or delete dash speakers and just use 4 channel amp.
3. Factory wires are not useful replace them (was trying to hold on to these) - I'll probably leave them in place even after installing new.
4. Upgrade sub to be bigger size, I'll search forums to see how and what was done

Few questions about your suggestions:
1. Since I'll be rewiring speakers anyways, I can easily put dash speakers in series if needed OR make them use separate channel, right? (leaning more towards tweeters with Solvefunction)

 

[landcrshr]

Wiring tweeters in parallel with the woofer is usually not an issue due to the high crossover frequency, which could be 10kHz or more. At that frequency, the woofer's impedance could be as much as 20 Ohms.

Just take a look at how common coaxial speakers are made. The tweeter is crossed over with a 2.2uF capacitor (19kHz) and wired in parallel with the woofer running full-range.

 

[wisemonkey]

Wiring tweeters in parallel with the woofer is usually not an issue due to the high crossover frequency, which could be 10kHz or more. At that frequency, the woofer's impedance could be as much as 20 Ohms.

Just take a look at how common coaxial speakers are made. The tweeter is crossed over with a 2.2uF capacitor (19kHz) and wired in parallel with the woofer running full-range.

I see.
Basically since sub operates at lower frequencies (max to mid) and tweeters at higher, as long as there is high pass filter (capacitor) in series with tweeter, we can put tweeters and subwoofer on same amp channel (in parallel).

is that correct?
That makes things easier, I can use 4 channel amp from speakers
and separate amp for tweeter and sub.

 

[Pascoscout]

I'd buy a component setup put together by the manufacturer. All the major brands offer one. They have a small mid/woofer and a separated tweeter (vs coaxial which is attached in the center). Those will come with the appropriate cross over and are wired up to work at 4ohms. The advantage is it puts the tweeter up high and directed towards your ear, so you pick up more of the high frequencies. Alternatively you can get a coaxial that has an adjustable center, and aim that towards your ear when you are in the driver seat.

Solve Function mount: FJ80 Tweeter mount Landcruiser - https://solvefunction.com/shop/ols/products/tweeter-mount

I just deleted the dash speakers and went with 4 in door speakers. Sounds great. You'll want the extra room for your amp to go in the dash anyway.

Yes, leave the factory wires but run new. I ran new and left the stock cause you never know when you might need an extra power wire or something to the door.

 

[wisemonkey]

I'd buy a component setup put together by the manufacturer. All the major brands offer one. They have a small mid/woofer and a separated tweeter (vs coaxial which is attached in the center). Those will come with the appropriate cross over and are wired up to work at 4ohms. The advantage is it puts the tweeter up high and directed towards your ear, so you pick up more of the high frequencies. Alternatively you can get a coaxial that has an adjustable center, and aim that towards your ear when you are in the driver seat.

Solve Function mount: FJ80 Tweeter mount Landcruiser - https://solvefunction.com/shop/ols/products/tweeter-mount

I just deleted the dash speakers and went with 4 in door speakers. Sounds great. You'll want the extra room for your amp to go in the dash anyway.

Yes, leave the factory wires but run new. I ran new and left the stock cause you never know when you might need an extra power wire or something to the door.

I see it's called component setup, I was thinking similar but without extra device (I thought crossover itself is part of speakers)

After reading through component setup: Generally comes with 2 mid range (woofers), Should I look at using only 1 of them?

As for SolveFunction, I wanted more pics / info because options are:
Focal TKMX
Focal Flax Evo
44.5x30
46x16
Focal TWU 1.5

And I've no idea what are these options (website only has 3 photos) or how should I correlate them to tweeters.
Maybe 46x16 means this :

Does it?

 

[simple]

"I've since moved away from building big systems"

Ain't that the truth. Didn't bother with the Land Cruiser as it is such a poor layout for a quality system. These days I just put a new headunit in, better speakers, and a powered subwoofer and I'm done. Not worth the amps, crossovers, new speaker locations, etc like the old days.

 

[DannyG]

Not sure you have enough room behind the glove box for that amp. Better to measure twice and cut once. I did manage to mount a kicker key 200.4 amp behind my Alpine head unit, but that was a really tight complicated fit. It turned into a real nightmare every time I had to do some work in the dash. I wound up moving amp under the drivers set. I'm running an LX450 so was able to put a sub amp under the center console where the CD changer was located..

Good luck

 

[landcrshr]

I see.
Basically since sub operates at lower frequencies (max to mid) and tweeters at higher, as long as there is high pass filter (capacitor) in series with tweeter, we can put tweeters and subwoofer on same amp channel (in parallel).

is that correct?
That makes things easier, I can use 4 channel amp from speakers
and separate amp for tweeter and sub.

Yeah, that's the gist of it, but we're talking about pairing tweeters with mid-woofers. A true subwoofer would require a dedicated low frequency channel.

 

[Pascoscout]

I see it's called component setup, I was thinking similar but without extra device (I thought crossover itself is part of speakers)

After reading through component setup: Generally comes with 2 mid range (woofers), Should I look at using only 1 of them?

As for SolveFunction, I wanted more pics / info because options are:
Focal TKMX
Focal Flax Evo
44.5x30
46x16
Focal TWU 1.5

And I've no idea what are these options (website only has 3 photos) or how should I correlate them to tweeters.
Maybe 46x16 means this :

View attachment 3732976

Does it?

Those are the tweeters that are known to fit. He does custom sizes though. I imagine if you contact him and let him know what setup you're looking at he can print them to fit the tweeter you want if you provide the specifications from the manufacturer.

As for component systems I'd look for one like this. One woofer, one tweeter per side with an external cross over. Hertz DSK170.3 Dieci series car audio system - https://hertz-audio.com/product/car-audio-systems-dieci-dsk170_3/

 

[Pascoscout]

Not sure you have enough room behind the glove box for that amp. Better to measure twice and cut once. I did manage to mount a kicker key 200.4 amp behind my Alpine head unit, but that was a really tight complicated fit. It turned into a real nightmare every time I had to do some work in the dash. I wound up moving amp under the drivers set. I'm running an LX450 so was able to put a sub amp under the center console where the CD changer was located..

Good luck

I put mine in the spot where the dash speaker was on the passenger side. May be a different model and its at least 7 years old. Fits if you remove that speaker and the factory amp.

 

[wisemonkey]

Those are the tweeters that are known to fit. He does custom sizes though. I imagine if you contact him and let him know what setup you're looking at he can print them to fit the tweeter you want if you provide the specifications from the manufacturer.

As for component systems I'd look for one like this. One woofer, one tweeter per side with an external cross over. Hertz DSK170.3 Dieci series car audio system - https://hertz-audio.com/product/car-audio-systems-dieci-dsk170_3/

Are woofers going in front door in this case (and act as normal mid range speakers)? I'm trying to understand where 2 woofers from component system go?
Center console only has space for only 1.

 

[DannyG]

I used the previous models of these speakers: Kicker KSS650. Originally ran them as coaxial, then switched them to separate components when I received my tweeter wings from Solve Function. Great sounding set of speakers. Running full active using a Kicker Key 200.4 amp.

Here are a few pictures of the speakers mounted in both configurations. Here are a couple of pixs of the SF pods with the Kicker tweeters installed.

Here is the speaker configured as a coaxial before I received the tweeter pods from SF. These actually sounds very good run coaxially. Note the tweeter still mounted in the middle. The tweeters were replaced with phase plugs once the SF pods came in.

 

[wisemonkey]

I used the previous models of these speakers: Kicker KSS650. Originally ran them as coaxial, then switched them to separate components when I received my tweeter wings from Solve Function. Great sounding set of speakers. Running full active using a Kicker Key 200.4 amp.

Here are a few pictures of the speakers mounted in both configurations. Here are a couple of pixs of the SF pods with the Kicker tweeters installed.
View attachment 3733766View attachment 3733767


Here is the speaker configured as a coaxial before I received the tweeter pods from SF. These actually sounds very good run coaxially. Note the tweeter still mounted in the middle. The tweeters were replaced with phase plugs once the SF pods came in.
View attachment 3733769View attachment 3733770

thanks.
Do you still have center console woofer?

 

[DannyG]

thanks.
Do you still have center console woofer?

No. Only using the 6.5inch woofers in the front doors and some off brand 4inch coax speakers for the rear doors. I did build a box for an 8 inch Image Dynamics sub woofer for the passenger side rear wheel well space. Driving the woofer with a Skar Audio 350 watt amp mounted in the bottom of the center console where the old CD changer used to live. Cutout in the rear panel for the woofer is not the smoothest, but it does not rattle. Here are a few pictures:

 

[wisemonkey]

No. Only using the 6.5inch woofers in the front doors and some off brand 4inch coax speakers for the rear doors. I did build a box for an 8 inch Image Dynamics sub woofer for the passenger side rear wheel well space. Driving the woofer with a Skar Audio 350 watt amp mounted in the bottom of the center console where the old CD changer used to live. Cutout in the rear panel for the woofer is not the smoothest, but it does not rattle. Here are a few pictures:
View attachment 3733787View attachment 3733788View attachment 3733789

Thanks a lot.
This makes so much more sense. now I only need to confirm component system speakers are somewhat shallow.

 

[Pascoscout]

Are woofers going in front door in this case (and act as normal mid range speakers)? I'm trying to understand where 2 woofers from component system go?
Center console only has space for only 1.

Yes, the woofer goes in the front door and acts as the normal speaker for mid/low range. In the systems with 2 woofers they can go anywhere you can fit them. I've seen set ups with both in the door, just have to be willing to cut the holes.

 

[Pascoscout]

Thanks a lot.
This makes so much more sense. now I only need to confirm component system speakers are somewhat shallow.

If I recall correctly you need something with a mounting depth of about 1.75 inches to fit in the front and still clear the window track. Its a tight fit, and not a ton of options out there that work.