On buying an LX from a Toyota dealer...

[usedname]

The plastic over the instruments is available new at Partsouq, IIRC its ~$35. It takes about 30 min to change it if you haven't done it before. I have to wonder what on earth someone was doing to break it like that.

Right?! Loading rebar? I imagine perhaps it was an unsuccessful attempt at getting in the instrument panel, but that's only cause I heard that this was hard to do. Thanks I definitely don't want to have to look at that broken plastic.

 

[usedname]

Oh man they raised the price by $4000 online. Must have caught on.

 

[planomateo]

used car market is slowly on the decline.

 

[kwon-offroad]

used car market is slowly on the decline.

This. And if you’re not in a hurry wait to see if Carvana files for bankruptcy. This will upend the market and prices will drop sharply as their cars will flood lots from coast to coast. LC won’t be immune to something of that magnitude.

 

[usedname]

Bummer, still waiting on that truck to get out of their service department. I pulled the trigger on Toyota's 'smartpath' since it still showed the lower price online, but of course they won't honor that. Kinda surprised they don't get sued given that every other industry pretty much has to honor advertised prices, and there are actual laws in place to force dealerships to do so as well. Wondering what you think @Patron100LC .

 

[Patron100LC]

Bummer, still waiting on that truck to get out of their service department. I pulled the trigger on Toyota's 'smartpath' since it still showed the lower price online, but of course they won't honor that. Kinda surprised they don't get sued given that every other industry pretty much has to honor advertised prices, and there are actual laws in place to force dealerships to do so as well. Wondering what you think @Patron100LC .

About a year or so ago, prices were going up daily, and we sometimes adjusted them online daily as well, but if we were in the middle of a deal with a customer we offered them 24-48 to finalize and keep the old prices, any delays and they'll have to pay new price. But it was Never a $4000 bump!

I'm guessing it was a trade, they calculated that they can move it quick for the original price, and somebody in management saw the car and said "Hmmmm, nice truck!! If we invest some time and money on it we'll squeeze a few grand more out of it" and that's probably the reason why it's still in service..

Do you happen to have the VIN? if you do, and it was purchased at auction I might be able to find the transaction.. If it was a trade, I'll tell you what I would have paid for it here in FL (not the hottest 4wd market, btw).

 

[usedname]

About a year or so ago, prices were going up daily, and we sometimes adjusted them online daily as well, but if we were in the middle of a deal with a customer we offered them 24-48 to finalize and keep the old prices, any delays and they'll have to pay new price. But it was Never a $4000 bump!

I'm guessing it was a trade, they calculated that they can move it quick for the original price, and somebody in management saw the car and said "Hmmmm, nice truck!! If we invest some time and money on it we'll squeeze a few grand more out of it" and that's probably the reason why it's still in service..

Do you happen to have the VIN? if you do, and it was purchased at auction I might be able to find the transaction.. If it was a trade, I'll tell you what I would have paid for it here in FL (not the hottest 4wd market, btw).

Yeah no I already pulled the carfax and autocheck for good measure, definitely a trade-in. I don't suppose it really matters what they paid (I bet 12k or less), since that has no bearing on what they're going to charge, especially when there's interest - and I know I'm not the only one one looking. Anyway it's 23k they're charging (up from 19k). To be fair, 19k is low given year/mileage. Just kinda bummed and butthurt that Toyota's so called SmartPath system which allows for easy buying is a complete sham.

 

[Patron100LC]

What year is it?

 

[usedname]

What year is it?

06!

 

[Patron100LC]

The average auction price, MMR (Manheim market report) of an 06 LX is $17900 after plugging in 148K miles. On the transactions within the last 45 days there's a couple going for over $18k at auction with similar mileage. I'd guess the Toyota dealer paid about $14-15.5k in real value, meaning that they might have shown the person that they're paying more but in reality they hid the balance somewhere in the sale's numbers. Selling a $15-16k trade at $19k is ok I'd guess, their overhead is probably huge, but $23k is A LOT of money for a stock 06'. (Remember that's probably before fees and taxes, did you find out what's your Out the Door?)

Still, doesn't mean it's not worth it in your eyes.
You might see it as a lifetime vehicle, and the initial expense is gonna be irrelevant in the future, as long as you're keeping it for long. Hell, we live only once..

I see that you own an 02, do you still have that one? If you do, and you're not in a rush to buy, maybe let it pass and wait for the right unicorn that will tickle your head AND wallet..

Here's the list. Condition is rated between 0-5, 0 being junk no run, 5 being new. (never seen a used 5).

Date Sold	Sale Price	Odometer	Condition	Engine/Trans	Exterior Color	Sale Type	Region	Manheim Auction
1/11/2023	$9,500	289,985	3.2	8G/A	Gray	Regular	Southwest	TX-Dallas
12/28/2022	$12,250	186,708	1.3	8G/A	Gray	Regular	Southwest	CO-Denver
12/22/2022	$18,400	142,570		8G	White	Regular	Midwest	IL-Chicago
12/14/2022	$18,100	163,389	3.9	8G/A	White	Regular	Southwest	TX-Dallas
12/7/2022	$15,000	156,431		8G/A	White	Regular	Southeast	FL-Fort Lauderdale
12/6/2022	$14,500	161,008	2.9	8CY/A		Regular	Southeast	GA-myCentralAuction

 

[usedname]

The average auction price, MMR (Manheim market report) of an 06 LX is $17900 after plugging in 148K miles. On the transactions within the last 45 days there's a couple going for over $18k at auction with similar mileage. I'd guess the Toyota dealer paid about $14-15.5k in real value, meaning that they might have shown the person that they're paying more but in reality they hid the balance somewhere in the sale's numbers. Selling a $15-16k trade at $19k is ok I'd guess, their overhead is probably huge, but $23k is A LOT of money for a stock 06'. (Remember that's probably before fees and taxes, did you find out what's your Out the Door?)

Still, doesn't mean it's not worth it in your eyes.
You might see it as a lifetime vehicle, and the initial expense is gonna be irrelevant in the future, as long as you're keeping it for long. Hell, we live only once..

I see that you own an 02, do you still have that one? If you do, and you're not in a rush to buy, maybe let it pass and wait for the right unicorn that will tickle your head AND wallet..

Thanks. I don't have my old LX anymore. Wish I did - bought it for 6.5k and sold it for 7k!

I don't know that the 06 is worth it to me for 23k. But as I said, I have emails from Toyota with the exact pricing quote before it changed - I'm suspicious that this isn't worth anything, especially when the law specifically prohibits this.

Selling Cars For More Than Advertised Prices - Vachon Law Firm

Think you paid too much money for your car or truck? Usually, there is no legal remedy for striking a bad bargain (even if it was the result of high-pressure sales tactics). However, in California there is one exception. Under California Vehicle Code section 11713.1(e), when car dealers publish...

www.thelemonlawcalifornia.com

(Of course lawyers also have their own reasons to make you think otherwise.)

But in all honesty - eh - I don't think there's much that can be done and the only reason I thought of it in the first place is because of the whole Toyota buy online system.

 

[Manhattan]

Wow @Patron100LC - that's awesome info (ammo) for the buyer! Still wish we had "Mud Beers" to hand out

 

[Patron100LC]

I usually don’t deal with many legal issues in our place, we try (try) to keep it as clean as possible (used car dealer possible). But.. Dealerships in general, specially bigger ones, like pretty much every Toyota dealer, wipe their a&$ with those type of complaints, rarely an individual will be able to afford going against them, either because of the time, money or effort involved in such a legal claim. If you push and push, they’ll try and resolve internally with some sort of compensation, no lawyers.
If it’s found that it’s a continuous practice, then it becomes a bigger issue for them if there’s a class action, very unlikely this is the situation.

Besides, knowing how they advertise, I’m sure there’s some sort of disclaimer that removes responsibility for discrepancies, it doesn’t make it right, but we live in lawyer land, I’m sure they got their butt covered somewhere.

Just to repeat, I’m not in CA. I’m in FL. It’s a different world, as you probably know..

That doesn’t mean that the actual people that work there won’t care. Maybe if you go there in person and show the add to one of the guys that has some influence, they’ll just let you get it for that number just to avoid confrontation. They’re just employees.

Wow @Patron100LC - that's awesome info (ammo) for the buyer! Still wish we had "Mud Beers" to hand out

The info is available whenever you need it, for any car.

MMR isn’t the Bible, but it’s a pretty good guide on what a vehicle is valued at wholesale market.
Obviously, there’s other expenses added to the buying amount showed there, Manheim fees aren’t low, on a $15k unit, expect between $250-400, transport, reconditioning, and mostly, risk.
The condition report is issued by a bunch of slackers, out of 10 cars, 7-8 need some repairs, and 2-3 are un-sellable without a major expense.

 

[planomateo]

Wow @Patron100LC - that's awesome info (ammo) for the buyer! Still wish we had "Mud Beers" to hand out

Definitely awesome!

 

[jerryb]

wait for it

Cars, Trucks & Crashes – Wolf Street

wolfstreet.com

 

[usedname]

Man this is so strange.

So I've been bugging the sales people at the dealership to give me updates.

Today I got a message that they dealership is not going to sell the car, because it requires too much work to be able to recoup their investment, and so they are going to wholesale it. It hasn't been in any accidents, but the sales person wasn't sure what things were wrong with it.

It's weird because it's got a great service record, I just wonder what could be wrong with it.

@Patron100LC ideas? I wonder if I could get a small-time dealership to buy it from them, if I could go check it out first.


Update: they're saying it leaks everywhere, and a lot of electrical stuff is shorted. Ah well.

 

[Patron100LC]

Man this is so strange.

So I've been bugging the sales people at the dealership to give me updates.

Today I got a message that they dealership is not going to sell the car, because it requires too much work to be able to recoup their investment, and so they are going to wholesale it. It hasn't been in any accidents, but the sales person wasn't sure what things were wrong with it.

It's weird because it's got a great service record, I just wonder what could be wrong with it.

@Patron100LC ideas? I wonder if I could get a small-time dealership to buy it from them, if I could go check it out first.


Update: they're saying it leaks everywhere, and a lot of electrical stuff is shorted. Ah well.

Assuming that that's the situation, and the seller isn't interested in repairing a traded car for retail, they'll throw the car at auction, and then that small dealership will fight against another 100 small dealerships for the purchase of this car, chances of getting it are getting smaller if the car's records are good, like no accidents and good maintenance.

If the car has major electrical issues, they might want to run it red light without condition report as is, no possibility of arbitrating the sale.

Also, it can be that one of the service guys liked the cruiser and he's buying it for himself..right? But if one of the pictures you received had that knee panel off, that means that they were playing with electricals there, and they're telling you the truth.