Oil sludge 1997 LX450

[IdahoDoug]

Andrew,

I'll save you a lot of trouble by telling you to save your breath talking to Lexus and trying to make them seem responsible for your vehicle's troubles. Please take this as it's meant - which is honest but blunt.

You bought a vehicle that gives all the signs of having been neglected mechanically. The cracked intake indicates to me the engine has been at least partly taken apart in the past, and assembled poorly by someone. Not a good sign, frankly. Toyota/Lexus vehicles are rugged and reliable but neglect and poor mechanical service can destroy anything in a heartbeat. Lexus would rightly tell you that they're sorry that you bought a neglected vehicle but there is nothing they or any business similarly engaged in selling and servicing high quality vehicles can do for you.

In truth, your problem would seem to be much more in the direction of the mechanic you bought the vehicle from. You keep referring to him as a "dealer" when really he's just a guy who rents a shop and has some tools and works on cars.

I too am sorry you are having such trouble with such a great vehicle. But you should focus your energies on the guy who sold you a vehicle in poor condition, not the vehicle itself or the fine folks who built it 7 years ago.

I have no input on whether you should keep it or not, but directionally you're into it way more than it's worth and having it fully and properly serviced and keeping it would seem logical.

DougM

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

How much oil consumption is normal? My truck uses about 1/2 quart every 1000 miles. I may try the Synthetic Rotella 15W40 and see if that helps. I am not sure where it goes as I do not have anymore major leaks (I think as I do not get any puddles).

Thanks

Andrew

NO NO NO that is not normal

By comparison 7600 miles 8oz added

I also feel sorry for all the issues you are having.

Personally Andrew I would have a hard time selling it to anyone (except my X-wife) with the knowledge of all the problems.

It looks like its time to start leaving the keys in the ignition at all times, windows down, and a full tank.

Best of luck Phil

 

[Andrewsreef]

Would the head gasket have something to do with the oil consumption? Another words, if I spend the money and replace the head (and have a valve job done) will this solve the oil consumption problem? If so, it is worth having it done. My point is if the problem is the top of the motor than having it fixed at this time would be a good idea. If for some reason the oil consumption is the bottom of the motor, than the head is proably a waste of time.

The Truck drives very well. Infact, it has very good power and feels "strong". Very, very smooth also. Also what is odd is it does not smoke at all. Even at startup as I have had some help checking this. I have no idea where the oil is going.

I am going to talk to my mechanic in the AM and see about the situation.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Lars]

NO NO NO that is not normal

It looks like its time to start leaving the keys in the ignition at all times, windows down, and a full tank.

Best of luck Phil

haha...

I bought mine and a month later the head gasket blew. I found myself imaging where I could leave it parked overnight and have a good chance of never seeing it again.

It's been about 7 months since I've replaced the gasket and I havent looked back. The Cruiser runs great and the HG job is a distant memory.

 

[Rookie2]

BTW, if you're going to put grease in the knuckle cavity, don't fill/overfill. The cavity only needs to be 2/3 to 3/4 full. I filled mine to the gills and the birf repack quickly moved to the front of the repair list, as the axle seal blew shortly after. You might be able to shine a light in the fill plug hole and see how much is in there. You want to leave enough room for the grease to be able to move around.


Rookie2

 

[semlin]

Andrew, my condolences. You have been unlucky. There is a peridoidc debate here about whether to buy a low mileage cruiser or buy a high mileage and use your savings on preventative maintenance. In your case you got the worst of both worlds but I am not convinced your truck is a lemon although I would say your issues sound more typical for a truck with a 177,000 miles!!

-on oil consumption, I am not so sure 1/2 a quart every 1000 miles is that bad. I think that's probably only a little more than what I use at 140k. Phil is doing exceptionally well to go 7600 miles without spilling hardly a drop. I have a weepy main seal that does not drip enough to leave a patch on the pavement at home but it coats my sway bar with oil and makes sure I have to add a little. I believe many others here use a quart every 2-3000 miles. Keep in mind that the loss seems worse because it usually shows up all at once when you take a long highway run which gets rid of any gasoline and vapour that mixes into the oil. How long has this pattern shown itself and have you changed oil brandss recently? Some users here report their trucks for some reason react badly to the switch of brands or to synthetic, especially early after the switch.

-on the cracked intake, it looks like some monkey overtightened it. I am surprised they would have had it off but maybe you are not the first to try to fix the EGR system which would also explain how the harness by the EGR valve got disturbed (another possibility is that someone has had the head off before). Try www.cruiserparts.net to get a used replacement. It is a fairly easy job to do yourself and at least it will be nice and clean.

-on the head gasket, do the test but #6 is where the failure is known to happen and it is not unsuaul at your mileage for a 97. Lexus might give you some kind of assistance on the cost. Either way, once it is done you will at least not suffer from Head gasket paranoia like the rest of us (Beowulf??). Symptoms include painstakingly examining the level in the radiator overflow on long drives and staring at the temp gauge on hill climbs darting it not to move until your eyes cross. Not pretty. If you sell this one and buy another I guarantee you will be thinking about it all the time.

-on the oil sludge I would just flush your oil every 1-200 miles for a while and see if you can get the sludge out. Several changes of Mobil 1 later I find my oil now stays nice and clean for 3000 miles or more.

If you keep this truck you have got to wean yourself from the dealer and other mechanics and become somewhat self reliant or you will end up in the poor house. So if you are committed buy an FSM and get busy! If not, I would sell it. Personally, I would keep it. Basically it is a good truck and if you dump it now you will get another truck with its own set of issues. Also, you will never escape the head gasket bugbear unless you buy a truck where it has already been done. Just think of it as your number coming up early. Most of the things you list would have come up in the next 2-3 years of ownership anyway. For you it just came sooner.

Anyway, think of it as if you had bought a 110k truck and then your problems seem pretty normal. They are pretty comparable to mine yet after a year I talked my brother into buying his own.

 

[Andrewsreef]

Thank you for the encouragement, semlin.

Andrew

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

1. bad spot in wire harness near EGR- no one could figure this one out and cost me big $
2. Complete tune up and throttle body cleaning to fix above
3. Oil leak front timing cover
4. Oil leak valve cover gasket.
5. trans and differential service to fix #1 but necessary anyway
6. Tires
7. Complete EGR system
8. 2 batteries as no one could find the problem turned out to be the starter
9. Starter

Andrew

Andrew:

Welcome and sorry to hear of the troubles. First, did you do a carfax onthe truck - if not, I would, to get some sense if there is some major underlying problem someone 'forgot' to tell you about.

Second, assuimg this is ok, I would just keep the truck - as others have noted, you've got a lot into it so you should stick with it. I bought mine for a good price knowing that I had to spend quite a few 'planned' $$ to get it up to speed (brakes, tires, replace fluids, etc) and was still hit with a $1500 unexpected event. I now feel that most of the mechanical gremlins are gone.

As I look at your list, most seem to be not that bad (tires, replacing starter, tranny and diff fluid) maintenance, some are the result of lazy dealer not trying to solve the problem (putting in two new battries...kind of like continuing to replace blown fuse) and some poor wrenching (install issues on the wiring harness and broken intake). Things like diagnosing a wiring harness problem are a MAJOR PITA and take a lot of time - I've tracked down a few electrical problems and they are hard to find. Get the FSM and a wiring manual and you'll save yourself some major $$. Hopefully you are nearing the end of the problems.

My point is that once you get to some baseline level, the ongoing maintenance costs per mile are very good. You'll note that the maitenance of these trucks seems high, but many of us are coming up on periods where the trucks need some help (in my case 7 years old) and then should go along happily with oil changes, air filters, brakes and a few shots of grease for some lengthy period of time

Finally, I agree that you will likely get nowhere with Lexus. Without some level of equity at the dealer level (ie having done all your service) - good luck! I tried and basically got nothing. IMHO somewhat short sighted as I had spent some $ at Lexus (and more in general with Toyota Canada) and we had been considering a second (new) Lexus which I don't intend to buy...

Cheers, Hugh

 

[Andrewsreef]

I did get a car fax from the dealer. I purchased the truck with 67k on it. I am the second owner and the car came from SouthFlorida. The original owner bought the truck out after his lease was up. Very shortly after that, he sold it and my dealer found it for me at auction.

Thats the scope on it so I did my homework on that part. My dealer the mechanic looked the truck over but not good enough. After 5 months, he thought I was loosing patience (and I was) so I think he grabed this truck because it is very clean inside and out.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Rich]

If I were you I would find out who the original owner was and call him up. If you are lucky a polite conversation may result in your getting a good understanding of the vehicles past repair history. The objective would not be "blaming" or "nailing" the previous owner, but instead would be for you to get a better understanding of the problems and repairs that have been performed in the past.

With the exception of the cracked manifold and the oil leaks, and perhaps the oil consumption, the other problems you have described are some of the most common problems reported for your vintage land cruiser. It is not so common for one person to have to deal with all of these problems at the same time at 77K miles.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Andrew,

That sounds like a history that's not what you would expect, eh? Why would a guy buy out his lease (usually for quite a bit more than it's worth) and shortly thereafter walk away from a car he A) apparently liked a lot just a little while ago, and B) had a ton of money into? What was it - who knows - but it doesn't pass the logic test.

For future knowledge for you and others, the way the used auto industry works is this. A huge percent of used cars enter the system as tradeins at new car dealerships. Nice cars are kept and appear on the new car dealership lots, while troubled cars, high miles, odd brands, or cars in poor shape head off to the auctions to appear in the secondary used car market (Ted's Auto Lot, etc). So, shopping auctions means you're shopping the inferior pool of vehicles. This is particularly true of cars known for holding high resale value and having specialty interest like the LandCruiser. When one of these appears at an auction you have to ask yourself why? Why didn't the local dealer keep it or when he called the local Toyota dealer to see if they want it (routinely done) why didn't they want it? When it comes to auctions, there's always something. If a car is low miles and clean it makes the veteran buyer wonder what it's doing there and look at it more closely, while the novice will salivate and bid it up. Statistically, guess who's right? This is not absolute, but I've heard many a person brag about the great deal they got on a vehicle at auction only to hear later they were having major problems with it. Caveat emptor......

DougM

 

[e9999]

well, I heard many Toyota dealers refer to their TLCs on the lot as lease returns bought at auction. These were top picks. But then maybe those are Toyota dealers only auctions from Toyota leases, not the general public type?
E

 

[IdahoDoug]

Yep - those are Toyota private auctions to distribute Toyota off lease vehicles within the system. They're coming from Toyota to the dealer body so no culling occurs. It's when dealers are sending cars to auctions that this culling of good cars to keep occurs.

Naturally, I'm not saying you cannot get a good car from an auction but I just want to generate a little awareness amongst my 80 family on how cars get to them and why. Of course there are times a dealership gets into financial trouble or other reasons prompt them to dump some creampuffs, but even then they hang on to the best ones to maximize their own returns.

DougM

 

[NovaFZJ80]

Andrew,

Here's my story... bought mine and within a month, i had to put in a new power steering cooler assembly, since the one on it corroded and broke off in pieces, then had to get the birfields repacked after finding soup in the front diff, and a month later, the rear pinion seal was leaking and got that replaced....just this past weekend, i decided to do a full tune up on it (cap,rotor, plugs, wires) and is running much better.....

Next thing on my list is replace the PCV valve, grommet, and start cleaning the TB, and other emissions related parts so i can pass emissions in November... i knew i had to put some $$$ into the LC to get it to baseline, but for $10k out the door, not bad...

 

[Rookie2]

I did get a car fax from the dealer. I purchased the truck with 67k on it. I am the second owner and the car came from SouthFlorida. The original owner bought the truck out after his lease was up. Very shortly after that, he sold it and my dealer found it for me at auction.

Kind of ironic. I bought my 97 LX450, last September from a wholesale dealer in Jacksonville, Florida. The truck was from South Florida, bought at auction with 67k.

Rookie2

 

[Andrewsreef]

Rookie2, it is proably the same place and I know he used to ship these. He usually does a good job of really looking the trucks over I am told by many. What I was told is he was put in a position with my truck where he had to look it over real quick or something? Not sure or do not remember why. He missed several for me that got "bought for higher than what he/I wanted to pay". My truck at auction supposivly cost him 19k and was the first with the mileage and condition that went for under 20k. I am not sure I beleive this now as I have seen a few nice trucks pop up for much less.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[landtank]

On a side note: we are beginning the hunt for a car for my daughter. My wife's big concern is mileage. Having one hell of a time convincing her that it's maintenance and not mileage that is key.

My daughter on the other hand just wants something that looks nice

 

[Rookie2]

My truck at auction supposivly cost him 19k and was the first with the mileage and condition that went for under 20k.

Well he's full of s***.

I bought mine for $17,900. At that time, these things were saleing for 13/14k at the auctions (maybe less). I tried going the auction route with a friend's dealer connection, because my friend had been to auction with him and told me what these things were going for. The dealer connection was just to unresponsive/unmotivated/lazy sack of crap, so I nixed him even though I could have save a chunk of cash.


Rookie2

 

[Andrewsreef]

Feel good that you got off for much less than me. I ended up with 21k into the truck before the repairs (he replaced the radiator and a few other things that he charged me for). Then he was changeing me for the repairs and I found out he did not know to much about these things.

You got off cheap and it sounds like you have a better truck!!!

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Newps]

I was going to go the auction route as well. However after speaking with some people in the industry I decided against it. The biggest reason was I wanted to look it over and drive it before buying it. You just never know what you will get from an auction. If anyone needs it I have access to a nation auction data base here is the info I located nationally for your car.

1997 Toyota LC 80
Market Analysis JUL 27, 2004 May April Jan. July 2003
Avg Price $12,422 $12,522 $12,241 $12,953 $15,285
Avg Miles 99,508 107,804 112,017 96,155 82,477

Projected Values July 2004 Aug. 2004 July 2005
Condition Above Avg Below Avg Avg
Wholesale $14,382 $12,382 $10,382 $12,050 $10,300
Retail $16,032 $13,882 $11,682 $13,500 $11,600

Here is what has sold in the month of July these are all 97 LC 80’s

Sale Date Auction Sale Price Miles 4x4 Color Engine /trans/ac/region
07/01/2004 ALBUQUE $ 13,000 91,349 X SILVER 6G A X SW
07/08/2004 ATLANTA $ 10,000 144,631 X WHITE 6G A X SE
06/30/2004 CADE $ 12,800 99,066 X WHITE 6G A X WC
07/01/2004 CHICAGO $ 15,700 53,879 X WHITE 6G A X MW
07/08/2004 CINCINNA $ 12,000 90,343 X GREEN 6G A X MW
07/07/2004 DENVER $ 15,000 91,500 X RED 6G A X SW
07/13/2004 FT WAYNE $ 9,450 137,408 X 6G A X MW
07/15/2004 HOBBY $ 9,500 108,213 X BLACK 6G A SW
07/22/2004 HOBBY $ 9,700 108,495 X GRAY 6G A X SW
07/13/2004 IMPERIAL $ 11,100 159,243 X SILVER 6G A SE
07/01/2004 MANHEIM $ 13,100 90,182 X BLACK 6G A X NE
07/23/2004 MANHEIM $ 14,200 83,900 X WHITE 6G A X NE
07/23/2004 MANHEIM $ 15,500 59,331 X RED 6G A X NE
07/16/2004 MANHEIM $ 12,500 93,785 X GREEN 6G A X NE
07/16/2004 MANHEIM $ 17,400 55,023 X GREY 6G A X NE
07/02/2004 MANHEIM $ 15,500 81,490 X BLACK 6G A X NE
07/02/2004 MANHEIM $ 13,800 86,773 X BLACK 6G A X NE
07/01/2004 MANHEIM $ 14,700 61,088 X TAN 6G A X NE
07/21/2004 MILWAUKE $ 18,100 50,203 X BLACK 6G A X MW
07/01/2004 MISS $ 10,000 112,843 X WHITE 6G A X SE
07/14/2004 NADE $ 11,800 106,046 X WHITE 6G A X NE
07/21/2004 NORTHSTR $ 13,000 89,062 X WHITE 6G A X MW
07/13/2004 RIVRSIDE $ 11,800 95,428 X GREEN 6G A X WC
07/02/2004 SAN ANTO $ 8,600 179,136 X PEWTER 6G A X SW