Oil Pump Question (1 Viewer)

[FJ40OliveRide]

It has been a bad day in restoration land. I am trying to start my rebuilt 1976 FJ40 2F engine after (sadly) 10 years. I primed the pump, squirted oil in the cylinders, oiled the rockers in prep to crank. I got it to fire up briefly but then it stopped (after 1 minute, yesterday). Today I cannot start it at all. The starter cannot spin the motor. I have tried rotating motor without spark plugs but to no avail.

Is it possible that I have destroyed the engine? How would I know?

I have a GMC HEI distributor with the oil pump drive from the original 2F distributor. This setup was running years ago so I had no reason to suspect an issue.

What is the length of the oil pump drive from the seat of the distributor to slot in pump drive?

I was done the restoration and just needed to start the vehicle, now I appear to be truly f'd!

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Limit the recriminations as I feel bad enough already.

 

[middlecalf]

Maybe squirt a little lubrication (mystery oil) into each cylinder and let sit for another day or so, then give it a crank.

 

[Travis 76]

Was the thrust bearing on the crank sized correct. I had to sand mine down as it was to tight to allow the crank to spin free. I had to take off about .002-.003, to get to the .0024 clearance.

 

[SteveH]

Mark your non-OEM distributor, pull it, and run a cut-off screwdriver shaft down the hole until it engages the oil pump. Compare the two, and see if perhaps your distributor was not fully engaged into the oil pump. As middlecalf said, squirt some ATF in the cylinders. If you cannot manually crank the engine over with a wrench, it's likely there is some bearing damage.

You might also temporarily install a mechanical oil pressure gauge you can see from under the hood. Take your time as you attempt to breathe life into this engine.

 

[Steamer]

What is the length of the oil pump drive from the seat of the distributor to slot in pump drive?

You can measure that yourself when you pull the dizzy.
You can even insert a long screw driver into the oil pump slot, mark the screw driver at the mounting surface on the block, and then compare it to your dizzy.

 

[1969FJ]

Can you turn the engine over from putting it in gear and pushing it a bit ?

 

[FJ40OliveRide]

I just put mystery oil in each cylinder and am letting it sit. I will try later today.

Thanks for guidance.

This FJ40 is diving me "insane"! Nothing is easy. I hope I don't fall out-of-love with it.

 

[Travis 76]

Keep going it can be tough. I’m on my 3rd 2F it’s been on an engine stand for about 6 years. Hoping to get it going soon.

 

[Travis 76]

It might be a good idea to pull the oil pan and pull off a bearing cap and check the bearings. I had an engine seize and it was at the crank bearings. The pistons were fine.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Any more info on "how" it stopped? Given it won't turn today, I'm assuming it slowed and bound up (vs stopping quick from an ignition issue, or sputtering out with lack of fuel). Does seem pretty likely to be a bearing issue at this point if you can't roll it over, though.

I got it to fire up briefly but then it stopped (after 1 minute, yesterday).

These were the old measurements I had from my stock '76 dizzy (as I converted a Hyperspark to match it):

Tang to bottom of gear: 2.185"
Tang to top of gear: 2.81"
Tang to mounting deck: ~4.76"

 

[Skreddy]

I guess I’m curious as to why oil was squirted in cylinders prior to startup? Also, if the engine was primed, why did you need to oil the rockers as priming it should’ve done that for you?
If the engine will not crank over, something is seized or broken and squirting more oil in the cylinders isn’t going to fix it. Did it come to a sudden stop or slow to a stop? Slow to me would indicate a heat/no lube issue where sudden would likely be a failure. Can you rotate the engine backward? Metal flakes in the oil? Strange or sudden noises before it stopped running?

 

[firemanj92]

Following up as @Skreddy stated..

Definitely drain/change the oil, you can tell a lot from the oil and it's the cheaper, least evasive, easiest route. Metal flakes that are ferrous/attracted to magnets (suggests) iron block, which is worst case scenario. Metal flakes that are non-ferrous (suggests) bearings.

Running the engine for 20-30 mins without oiling won't necessarily kill the motor but it may damage it. Oiling of the rockers takes place with the #4 cyclinder at top (if I remember). With that in mind, spin the oiler with the valve cover off and you should see oiling at the rockers. (that is after making sure the dizzy is the correct length.

 

[pjohnson]

Pull the starter and make sure it's not bound in the flywheel. Make sure it's not in gear.

I have used a large flatblade to engage the oil pump. I had to grind the sides of the head a little.

1 minute of running shouldn't cause a seize up unless there was already an issue. You say it was rebuilt and sat for 10 years. If the bearings were installed properly with assembly lube it should be fine. I wouldn't conclude a bearing failure too quickly.

If the starter is out and it won't turn with a big wrench by hand, I would pull the pan next and loosen, not remove, one main cap at a time and try to turn between each. It will help identify if it's a main bearing and which is the possible culprit.

The next steps after that depends on the results.

 

[FJ40OliveRide]

I drove the oil pump today with an electric drill and a drive shaft I fashioned from round stock. It spun and showed some resistance so it appears to be working. I will pull the valve cover and make sure oil is coming up.

I have let the engine sit for 2 days with mystery oil in each cylinder. I briefly spun engine with starter with spark plugs removed and it spun. Ran it for 3 seconds.

Tomorrow I will drain the oil and look for debris.

I had a USB borescope camera (cheap pintless purchase a few years ago) that I hooked to a tablet and looked into each cylinder. I do not see any scoring.

Should I still pull pan and look at bearings? Thoughts?

BTW: I really appreciate the help. I hope to find some way to pay it back.

Ron

 

[Travis 76]

If it did seize the damage will be on the bearings.
My oil pump seized on me while I was driving on the freeway, then engine seized. I scavenged the oil pump, crank and bearings out of my old motor and got it running again. Cylinders didn’t look damaged at all.

 

[pjohnson]

If you can only spin it with the starter and not by hand, it could be it's just tight since you said it was rebuilt but not run.

If oil is reaching the valve train and you don't find anything in the drained oil, I would probably just put it all back together, add a mechanical oil pressure guage and move on.

 

[FJ40OliveRide]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I used mystery oil, waited several days. I got a mechanical gauge and tested that the oil pump worked by driving pump with drill. All good.

Drained oil and checked for debris (Nothing) and refilled.

Reassembled dizzy making sure pump was engaged. Used starter to spin engine without plugs in place. Oil pressure still good.

Set the timing per a writeup I got here and... drum roll... started engine! A miracle! It fired up and oil pressure was solid. Back in the hunt for finishing this restoration and getting it tagged!

Thanks again.