Oil for older Diesel Engines? 3L/5L Etc. (1 Viewer)

[drewgold]

Wondering if anyone can advise on what oil is appropriate for older Toyota diesel engines without emission systems? Seems lots of oil manufacturers have dropped the old CF rating from their oils, I’m assuming that they still meet the standard but don’t bother to certify anymore?

Currently I use Mobil Delvac 0w40 for winter and 5w40 for summer in my Toyota Dyna with a 5L 3.0L diesel (non-turbo). Mostly use it because it’s readily available and goes on sale for a good price. Also carries the CK-4 rating which I’m sure far exceeds the demands of this engine.

The manual calls for 5w30 or 10w30 CF-4 oil but I have been unable to find any 30 weight oil that carries a CF or newer rating.

Looking at switching to Mobil ESP 0w30/5w30 as I also own a TDI Audi which uses this oil and would be much more economical to have both vehicles on the same oil. This oil carries a ACTA C3 rating which covers modern diesel engines but I have read online that ‘sooty’ engines like the older Toyota diesel engines still need heavy duty diesel oil designed to handle the soot.

Thoughts? Curious if anyone has feedback or advice or recommendations on 5w30 diesel oil to look for. Thanks!

 

[AirheadNut]

In my opinion 0W-30 is too thin for an old diesel like that. I always ran 15W-40 summer and 10W-30 winter in my Toyota diesels, 5W-40 year round in my VW TDI's. I've gone to Rotella T6 synthetic in recent years, seems to have good life based on several back to back lab analysis reports on both TDI's and a 1HD-T.

 

[bj70bc]

t5 or t6 in15w40 summer or 0/5w40 winter
delvac is ok too, i just think rotella t6 is better

 

[Dougal]

Wondering if anyone can advise on what oil is appropriate for older Toyota diesel engines without emission systems? Seems lots of oil manufacturers have dropped the old CF rating from their oils, I’m assuming that they still meet the standard but don’t bother to certify anymore?

Currently I use Mobil Delvac 0w40 for winter and 5w40 for summer in my Toyota Dyna with a 5L 3.0L diesel (non-turbo). Mostly use it because it’s readily available and goes on sale for a good price. Also carries the CK-4 rating which I’m sure far exceeds the demands of this engine.

The manual calls for 5w30 or 10w30 CF-4 oil but I have been unable to find any 30 weight oil that carries a CF or newer rating.

Looking at switching to Mobil ESP 0w30/5w30 as I also own a TDI Audi which uses this oil and would be much more economical to have both vehicles on the same oil. This oil carries a ACTA C3 rating which covers modern diesel engines but I have read online that ‘sooty’ engines like the older Toyota diesel engines still need heavy duty diesel oil designed to handle the soot.

Thoughts? Curious if anyone has feedback or advice or recommendations on 5w30 diesel oil to look for. Thanks!

VW spec 5W30 will work fine probably year-round. Older oils ran thicker because they needed higher viscosity to get the film strength. Newer oils have the same film strength at lower viscosities.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Whatever 5w-40 diesel oil is least expensive when you go to buy oil will be perfectly fine.

There's a Rotella rebate going on right now, T6 for $8/gal with careful shopping. Google for rebate info, you have to buy at certain places.

Advance Auto is closing stores in my area and was liquidating Delo 5w-40 for super cheap, I stocked up. Might be worth checking stores in your area.

 

[drewgold]

Thanks for all the replies! The feedback is much appreciated.

I did reach out to Mobil and actually got a reply, the person said that for older diesel engines, they generally recommend CF/CK rated oils as they have properties that help suspend soot better than more modern oils such as the VW spec Mobil ESP 5w30. They said that soot is common in heavy duty diesel equipment and oils designed for heavy duty applications ‘may’ perform better than more modern diesel oils which do not carry the CF/CK ratings. They did say that the VW spec oils would likely be just fine though.

I guess an analysis may be the only real way to know. I shoot for changing my oil every 5,000 kms in the Toyota due to the high soot 5L engine. At that interval, I guess it probably doesn’t make a whole lot of difference in the oil.

I live in Canada and for some reason the T6 is always substantially more expensive ($20+ more per gal) than the Full Synthetic Mobil Delvac 1 so I tend to stick with the Mobil as the price can’t be beat when on sale or rebate.

 

[TheBussman]

The most common oils labeled for diesel on the shelf are made with careful consideration to not damage the DPF and SCR system on a modern truck. Doesn't mean they arnt going to work good but euro spec a3/b4 oils are still rated for diesel but not approved for use with DPF as the have all the good anti wear additives (high SAPS) that will damage a DPF. That would be my choice, but your right if your going to change it often most any modern oil 0/5/10w 30-40wt should be fine.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I look for oils that meet Cummins 20081/20086 specs, which means the oil is good for the 5.9 12/24v engines with flat tappet cams. Good enough for that, good enough for our engines. Have yet to find a 15w40 or 5w40 diesel oil that doesn't meet these specs.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I don't think you can go wrong with a full synthetic Mobil oil, changed every 5000km.

I've been using Rotella T6 in my new to me 2004 Ford F150 with 5.4triton V8. They are known to have oiling issues with gunk build up in some critical places. And mine was a little noisy in the valve train. ( enough to make me nervous)

My logic is diesel oils have more detergents in them, so it could possibly help clean critical galleries in an engine with unknown history.

There was a definite difference in valve train noise in this engine after a few oil changesm cycles with the Rotella. Less tapping.

Recently picked up Mobil full synthetic for high mileage enginas at a better price, with viscosity as per spec for my engine (T6 spec is slightly different). It seems the engine is happier with the Mobil product.
Approaching 3000 mile oil change interval, I had been hearing a difference in valve train sound.
With the Mobil, it's happy right up to that 3k mile OCI ( currently a few hundred miles overdue, and still quiet).

Never experienced an engine so sensitive to what oil and fuel goes into it

 

[Cruising Canuck]

I've got a well used 3B, I put rotella t6 in it. And it just leaked out of every seal on the engine. Switched back to dyno oils and the leaks stopped.
I don't think synthetic is necessary in these old engines.
I have personally taken apart 4 different B series engines. The engines that I know the history of and had consistent oil changes with whatever diesel oil was on sale, were all within spec inside. Except the cam bearings. (After over half a million km's)
But the other B engines with unknown maintenance, has circular cam shaft lobes and very noticeable wear inside.
I am a firm believer in the only thing that matters with engines, is that they have consistent oil changes. Don't get too caught up on what oil to use.
Currently I'm running mobil oil from canadian tire that comes in a pale.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Mobil Delvac is having a rebate sale too.

Mobil Delvac™ – Terms

promotion.mobil.com

 

[Dougal]

The most common oils labeled for diesel on the shelf are made with careful consideration to not damage the DPF and SCR system on a modern truck. Doesn't mean they arnt going to work good but euro spec a3/b4 oils are still rated for diesel but not approved for use with DPF as the have all the good anti wear additives (high SAPS) that will damage a DPF. That would be my choice, but your right if your going to change it often most any modern oil 0/5/10w 30-40wt should be fine.

Older antiwear additives were poisonous to Cat, DPF and EGR systems. Newer antiwear additives aren't. That's how newer low SAPS oils get longer drain intervals than older ones.
My VW TDI is a PD engine that needs specific antiwear additives and runs a DPF. It runs oil change intervals between 20-25,000km (it has an oil quality sensor in the sump) despite all this. Currently 17 years old with over 220,000km on it.

Oils I run meet VW 504/507 spec and are usually 5W30. Currently Motorex SelectSP-X 5W30. These are better oils than anything that was run in the old days. I run that in my Isuzu Dmax as well. I run a Motorex 10W40 in my Isuzu 4BD1T because I bought a lot of it ages ago. Guess I'll try the 5W30 when that runs out. My climate isn't that demanding (-10C is as cold as it gets).

I don't think you can go wrong with a full synthetic Mobil oil, changed every 5000km.

I've been using Rotella T6 in my new to me 2004 Ford F150 with 5.4triton V8. They are known to have oiling issues with gunk build up in some critical places. And mine was a little noisy in the valve train. ( enough to make me nervous)

My logic is diesel oils have more detergents in them, so it could possibly help clean critical galleries in an engine with unknown history.

There was a definite difference in valve train noise in this engine after a few oil changesm cycles with the Rotella. Less tapping.

Recently picked up Mobil full synthetic for high mileage enginas at a better price, with viscosity as per spec for my engine (T6 spec is slightly different). It seems the engine is happier with the Mobil product.
Approaching 3000 mile oil change interval, I had been hearing a difference in valve train sound.
With the Mobil, it's happy right up to that 3k mile OCI ( currently a few hundred miles overdue, and still quiet).

Never experienced an engine so sensitive to what oil and fuel goes into it

Unless you're doing exclusively short/cold/dusty running 5,000km oil change intervals is just wasting oil. These dinosaurs have no problem running double that and even more as long as you're not hosing fuel into the oil.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Unless you're doing exclusively short/cold/dusty running 5,000km oil change intervals is just wasting oil. These dinosaurs have no problem running double that and even more as long as you're not hosing fuel into the oil.

I would have agreed with this in the past. And not to say you aren't right within certain parameters.

My current work truck absolutely does not agree.

I've also seen excessive wear and an increase in oil consumption in my previous work hack after doubling oil change interval to 10k km. Bearing metal in oil after a few extended OCI using modern, 'quality' synthetic oils.

One man's wasted oil is another's cheap insurance.
By the time you find out you were wrong, you can't undo the damage.

Paying for oil analysis frequently enough to catch an issue with extended OCI is gonna unwind a chunk of any savings too.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Unless you're doing exclusively short/cold/dusty running 5,000km oil change intervals is just wasting oil. These dinosaurs have no problem running double that and even more as long as you're not hosing fuel into the oil.

Our old indirect injection engines soot load the oil terribly, that's why the short oil change intervals. Nothing to do with wearing out the oil.

I'll be changing the oil on my 1kzte this weekend and sending a sample off to Blackstone Labs for testing, including checking soot levels. Will share the results here on the forum when I get them back. Edit: 5k KM on oil, Rotella T6 5w40.

 

[Musafir]

It all depends on the environment. I use T4 15w40 year around

 

[chapel gate]

for the uk climate 15-40 semi synthetic changed every 5000 miles.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Anyone have any insights on changing oil filter with every oil change or every other oil change? Manual says every other oil change.

Doing a UOA with this oil change so that I can leave the filter in for another 5000km, do another UOA, and compare. If someone has already done that, it would save me some $$$$.

 

[Dougal]

I would have agreed with this in the past. And not to say you aren't right within certain parameters.

My current work truck absolutely does not agree.

I've also seen excessive wear and an increase in oil consumption in my previous work hack after doubling oil change interval to 10k km. Bearing metal in oil after a few extended OCI using modern, 'quality' synthetic oils.

One man's wasted oil is another's cheap insurance.
By the time you find out you were wrong, you can't undo the damage.

Paying for oil analysis frequently enough to catch an issue with extended OCI is gonna unwind a chunk of any savings too.

That sounds like you've got other issues going on that are unrelated to oil change intervals. Like bore wear which is causing the oil consumption. Any silica in your oil? Air-cleaner problem?

Our old indirect injection engines soot load the oil terribly, that's why the short oil change intervals. Nothing to do with wearing out the oil.

I'll be changing the oil on my 1kzte this weekend and sending a sample off to Blackstone Labs for testing, including checking soot levels. Will share the results here on the forum when I get them back. Edit: 5k KM on oil, Rotella T6 5w40.

That's why I mentioned short/cold running. Soot is the biggest problem for diesels that run cold over short trips. If you're doing short amount of time/miles per trip you're going to soot up your oil way quicker. If you do longer trips 10,000km oil changes are no problem.

 

[OM617YOTA]

That sounds like you've got other issues going on that are unrelated to oil change intervals. Like bore wear which is causing the oil consumption. Any silica in your oil? Air-cleaner problem?



That's why I mentioned short/cold running. Soot is the biggest problem for diesels that run cold over short trips. If you're doing short amount of time/miles per trip you're going to soot up your oil way quicker. If you do longer trips 10,000km oil changes are no problem.

IDI's soot up the oil regardless, compared to anything new. My buddy's '11 Duramax oil looks like gasser oil, it's so clean.

Hoping you're right, my daily commute is ~25 miles each way and almost entirely highway driving at 60+ mph. Would love to bump out my oil change intervals. UOA will tell the tale, everything else is guessing.

 

[bj70bc]

Our old indirect injection engines soot load the oil terribly, that's why the short oil change intervals. Nothing to do with wearing out the oil.

I'll be changing the oil on my 1kzte this weekend and sending a sample off to Blackstone Labs for testing, including checking soot levels. Will share the results here on the forum when I get them back. Edit: 5k KM on oil, Rotella T6 5w40.

yes please, id be interested to look