Not starting...fuel issue?

[amaurer]

Go back to where I said:

(As for your internal measurements, you should probably just ignore them, it can be hard to measure voltages on a piece of resistance wire as it forms a nonconductive oxide layer in air which can insulate your probe)

You'll never diagnose whats going on unless you can take a good voltage measurement at the output. Get a better voltmeter.

 

[lostmarbles]

.....Let's talk current as in measured with a test light (It lights up when electricity is there).
It lights up when testing both wires going into the glow indicator, and only on 1 half of the resistor wire. Just seems strange is all.

Doesn't sound strange to me Greg. I would say the voltage is high enough to light your test bulb at the beginning of your indicator-coil/controller but simply not high enough further along it.

As Amaurer/Drew said earlier, it is made of "resistance wire" and when current flows through it, it "drops the voltage" for the "electrical loads" that are connected "further down the line" (which are the glow plugs).

Thus the glow plugs are fed with a lower voltage than your battery voltage.

And presumably your test lamp is using a 12 volt bulb - So at a certain point along the "indicator-coil/controller" your bulb is getting so little voltage that it is insufficient to force enough current through your bulb to make it glow. (Ignoring the fact that the resistance wire may be coated in an insulating layer of oxide - which Drew correctly mentions.)

Let's get back to the important details though: ---- If you have one or more faulty glow plugs, your indicator-coil/controller will be passing insufficient current for it to "glow". So in your situation (with known faulty plugs) I would just start by "fitting 6 brand new 8.5V plugs and seeing how my old indicator-coil/controller responds" to this.

And did you find any more than one "disintegrated glow plug tip" on your old plugs or haven't you removed them all yet?

 

[GregFrench]

Haven't taken them out yet. I'm waiting until the new ones get here so I can still drive it. Been too busy changing the clutch master and slave and the starter.

 

[GregFrench]

Ok...the moment we have all been waiting for. I got the new plugs in and the old ones out. They are NOT PRETTY! 4 of them are wasted. 2 of them look as they should. Remember, these have only been installed since April or May!

So how does it work? Once I put the new ones in, I glowed it, and the indicator (controller) still didn't light up, but it got HOTT! I mean so hot that it melted the end of my dumbass finger when I touched it. The nuts holding it were also hot. I figured maybe the element was corroded or whatever.

So I put the new indicator/controller that came with the plugs. It also got HOTT but still didn't light up.

What's the damn deal with that?

 

[lostmarbles]

Ok...the moment we have all been waiting for. I got the new plugs in and the old ones out. They are NOT PRETTY! 4 of them are wasted. 2 of them look as they should. Remember, these have only been installed since April or May!...

Bloody hell!!

I haven't a clue what would cause that!

AFAIK a 1981 HJ47 (that has a 12V battery) should be using 8.5V plugs so the "voltage rating" appears to be OK!

I would suspect the ether-starts but then it is hard to imagine that "ether-fueled combustion-explosions" could be so powerful/hot as to cause that either.

And why would using "vegie oil" cause it?

...So how does it work? Once I put the new ones in, I glowed it, and the indicator (controller) still didn't light up, but it got HOTT! I mean so hot that it melted the end of my dumbass finger when I touched it. The nuts holding it were also hot. I figured maybe the element was corroded or whatever.

So I put the new indicator/controller that came with the plugs. It also got HOTT but still didn't light up...What's the damn deal with that?

Well I must say that I didn't think you needed a new controller. Is the controller the correct part number? (AFAIK it should be part number 28550-47040. And Henry James the 47th in this thread at post #951 supports this.)

 

[roscoFJ73]

Ok...the moment we have all been waiting for. I got the new plugs in and the old ones out. They are NOT PRETTY! 4 of them are wasted. 2 of them look as they should. Remember, these have only been installed since April or May!

So how does it work? Once I put the new ones in, I glowed it, and the indicator (controller) still didn't light up, but it got HOTT! I mean so hot that it melted the end of my dumbass finger when I touched it. The nuts holding it were also hot. I figured maybe the element was corroded or whatever.
?

Di you see rideglobally's post? He is having the same problem with the indicator getting very hot.

Ive never seen plugs do that before

 

[joel hj60]

They look like the plugs have been overheated and the tips have melted.

 

[GregFrench]

The ether was used only a few times. Hardly enough to cause this... and never glowed after I sprayed (Figured that could be REALLY bad!)

Temp gauge never rises above the halfway point.

Yes I saw Ride's post and directed him here so we could all figure this out.

Glow indicator is the correct part # and is working, but not glowing. I know it used to glow and get even hotter. Now it just gets hot so I count to 15 seconds then start it up.

Stumped doesn't even begin to describe how I feel.

 

[lostmarbles]

The ether was used only a few times. Hardly enough to cause this... and never glowed after I sprayed (Figured that could be REALLY bad!)

Temp gauge never rises above the halfway point.

Yes I saw Ride's post and directed him here so we could all figure this out.

Glow indicator is the correct part # and is working, but not glowing. I know it used to glow and get even hotter. Now it just gets hot so I count to 15 seconds then start it up.

Stumped doesn't even begin to describe how I feel.

Bad earthing could cause your "lack of glow". But if that were happening I wouldn't expect your starter to be able to turn your engine over properly because it would be having earthing problems too.

 

[amaurer]

Remeasure the voltage at your glow plugs. I think your glow controller might be shorting to ground (i.e. your dash board)... Symptoms would be that the controller gets hot as hell but doesn't glow, and voltage seen at the glowplugs will be lowered or zero.

Make sure that the isolators on the glow controller terminals are in good shape, and neither of input/output wires or the internal resistance wire touches the housing.

 

[GregFrench]

Remeasure the voltage at your glow plugs. I think your glow controller might be shorting to ground (i.e. your dash board)... Symptoms would be that the controller gets hot as hell but doesn't glow, and voltage seen at the glowplugs will be lowered or zero.

Make sure that the isolators on the glow controller terminals are in good shape, and neither of input/output wires or the internal resistance wire touches the housing.

I was thinking it could be a bad ground somewhere, too. I tested the glow controller while it was out. Pulled the wires out from under the dash and traced them up inside of the dash. Nothing is touching anywhere.
Insulators were good on both the old one and the new one. No wires or anything touching the housing.

 

[amaurer]

I was thinking it could be a bad ground somewhere, too. I tested the glow controller while it was out. Pulled the wires out from under the dash and traced them up inside of the dash. Nothing is touching anywhere.
Insulators were good on both the old one and the new one. No wires or anything touching the housing.

You need to get a voltmeter man. They're like $5 in the discount bin, you can't expect to solve this problem with a test lamp. Electricity is not just an on-or-off thing. Without real measurements we're not going to be able to help you.

 

[lostmarbles]

Well I'm baffled as I've said before.

I've just tried searching MUD to find others that have had similar problems (with "burning out glow plugs") and the only clear cause I've found is people who have had their wiring tampered with - Like using a "Wilson Switch" to supply battery voltage directly to their plugs.

But I have noticed (from my search) that your glowplug problems date back a long time Greg. So I can see why you were reluctant to simply put in a new set of plugs. (You are indeed a "glow plug serial killer" -which I see from my search - is how another MUD member referred to himself).

How "original" is your wiring? Can you trust it to be "as per the wiring diagram"?

 

[GregFrench]

Yes. This is the 4th set I have had in there in 2 years. First set went bad. They were in it when I got the truck Second set was a temporary used donor set to get me through the winter. Third set I put in back in April or May, and we have all seen the pictures. 4th set was put in this week.

My glow controller not glowing anymore just started before I put in set #3 back in April. I will be checking with a voltmeter as soon as I get time.

This new set isn't working the way they usually do. I glow the normal amount of time (15-20 seconds) and it doesn't start right away. It's like they aren't getting hot enough or something.

 

[lostmarbles]

Yes. This is the 4th set I have had in there in 2 years. First set went bad. They were in it when I got the truck Second set was a temporary used donor set to get me through the winter. Third set I put in back in April or May, and we have all seen the pictures. 4th set was put in this week.

My glow controller not glowing anymore just started before I put in set #3 back in April. I will be checking with a voltmeter as soon as I get time.

This new set isn't working the way they usually do. I glow the normal amount of time (15-20 seconds) and it doesn't start right away. It's like they aren't getting hot enough or something.

Well it would sure be nice to crack this one after all this time!

Voltmeter readings could well be helpful here (as Amaurer/Drew said before). For instance I would be interested in seeing the "upstream" reading on the glow controller while you are "glowing". If it is falling measurably below 12V - it could mean the contacts within your glow plug relay are shot. (I imagine they could "burn" just like those in a "starter solenoid". After all- the plugs draw a lot of current too.)

Good luck with the ongoing investigation.

 

[GregFrench]

I am going to start at the relay, then the controller, then the busbar, then the plugs, then the ignition. Anyplace else you can think of?

Just so I am sure, I need to test ground to whatever I am testing, correct? (Like, put the black one on a good ground, and the red one on the wire connector)

 

[amaurer]

I am going to start at the relay, then the controller, then the busbar, then the plugs, then the ignition. Anyplace else you can think of?

Just so I am sure, I need to test ground to whatever I am testing, correct? (Like, put the black one on a good ground, and the red one on the wire connector)

Yes, measure versus ground for all points. I'd like to see:

Battery + (while glowing)
Glow Relay B terminal
Glow Relay G terminal
Glow controller input
Glow controller output
Busbar
Engine or glow plug body

 

[GregFrench]

And the voltage results are in....

Battery: Normal- 12.34V Glow position- 11.63V Back to normal- 12.34

Glow Relay: Left Connection- 0V- 10.88V- 0V
Center Connection- 12.32V- 10.92V- 12.32V
Right Connection- 0V- 9.53V- 0V

Glow Controller: Left Side- 10.08 Right Side- 9.38

Plugs From firewall to front: 8.89V- 8.89V- 8.83V- 8.78V- 8.78V- 8.75V (Decreasing V may be from repeated trials)

Battery after all tests were done repeatedly: 12.17V

BTW...If you ever need to do this, don't save the glow controller for last. That momma is HOTT! Still no glowing.

So now what?

 

[Tapage]

So now what?

Forget all and continue enjoying your Cruiser ..

 

[amaurer]

And the voltage results are in....

Battery: Normal- 12.34V Glow position- 11.63V Back to normal- 12.34

Glow Relay: Left Connection- 0V- 10.88V- 0V
Center Connection- 12.32V- 10.92V- 12.32V
Right Connection- 0V- 9.53V- 0V

Glow Controller: Left Side- 10.08 Right Side- 9.38

Plugs From firewall to front: 8.89V- 8.89V- 8.83V- 8.78V- 8.78V- 8.75V (Decreasing V may be from repeated trials)

Battery after all tests were done repeatedly: 12.17V

BTW...If you ever need to do this, don't save the glow controller for last. That momma is HOTT! Still no glowing.

So now what?

It looks like your glow controller is dropping less than a volt; this may be why its not glowing. You're also losing almost a full volt in the connection between the glow relay and the glow control (glow relay left connection to glow controller left side)... check that those terminals are clean and the wire is in good shape.

Take one more measurement from the - terminal of the battery to the engine, right at the base of one of the plugs.