Not starting...fuel issue?

[roscoFJ73]

Ok. Went out this morning after it had been sitting all night and cracked each of the injector nuts to see if there was fuel in the lines. Nothing seeped out right away. Turned the key, and on about the second rotation, they all started spewing fuel. That tells me there was fuel in the lines, and leaking down is most likely not happening.
?

I still think there is a leak there. If nothing seeped out right away,there cant be anything going into the injector.


You glow,you crank,battery gets tired cranking an engine with insufficent fuel.
Then you use ether and its starts.


Is there any seepage around the primer when you use it? (you may need to relieve some pressure so you can use it properly to see seepage)
Any seepage from the inj pump?

 

[Joe Egolf]

35 sec glow

HOLD ON THERE, I said I might try a 35 sec glow to see if my indicator would glow.I usually start up easily in the am with a 15 sec glow.Pulled my buss bar and glow plugs today all looked good to me ,they are Nippon Denso 067100 1350 8.5v 5k . Whats the 5k mean?? I will go to my buddies and test my plugs this week.

 

[Joe Egolf]

my bar and plug

PIc attached??

 

[lostmarbles]

Well I reckon this thread may help sort things out for Joe and Drew - even if we're still a bit lost as to why Greg's plugs are disintegrating. (I'm still of the belief that Greg has a glow-problem rather than a fuel problem though Rosco.)

Sorry for misinterpreting your "35 second" statement Joe - but I'm now developing a strong belief that you are indeed running the wrong glowplugs (by running 8.5V plugs like mine). (Edit 31 July - This belief was based on the "EPC's erroneous "6V listing". I now believe Joe's plugs are correct. And consequently the rest of what I said in this post can be trashed! But I'll leave it be -rather than delete it - so people can follow how our/my learning process occurred here.)

First a sidetrack ----- Joe - You say your 8.5V plugs have "ND 067100-1350 8.5V 5k" stamped on them. Well my original 8.5V plugs have "ND 067100-1171 7s" instead. And funnily enough - "7s" is exactly what was stamped on my injector bodies too. (Coincidence?) I too have no idea what the 5k and 7s mean. And I have no idea what the 1350 and 1171 mean either (different plug dimensions?).

Now for the interesting stuff - Joe - You sent me a photo of your VIN plate which enabled me to accurately search your vehicle on the EPC for the first time. There is no doubt in my mind that it lists 19850-68030 6V plugs for your Aug 1981 production BJ42RV-KC 3B-powered cruiser. So the only thing left is whether the EPC is wrong or not.

Edit 27 July 7.30pm- Post 47 of this thread seems to confirm that it is an ERROR in the EPC!

And these lower voltage plugs would indeed be inclined to assist your dash-mounted glowcontroller/indicator to "glow" (based on my knowledge of electrical theory at least).

My searching on the internet suggests that HKT146 plugs are what you should be running. But nowhere on the Internet can I see them listed as being used on a BJ42. Which explains why previous owners have probably been convinced to use others. But HKT146 plugs are indeed used in 3B engines (a BJ60 that use "superglow" for instance).

A squizz at www.karmot.com shows that the 6V HKT146 appear to have exactly the same dimensions as the HKT145 plugs that I believe you were considering buying.

I've said before that I'm reluctant to suggest experimenting with different plugs for fear that you may damage expensive/irreplaceable components like "glowcontrollers" and "glowplug relays". --- So I suggest you recheck my research yourself before deciding (or IF you decide) to try 6V plugs.




PS. My minds been ticking over....... The 7s that was stamped on both my injector bodies and glow plugs was stamped much lighter (less deep/clear) and more "roughly" than all the other stampings on my plugs and injectors. This suggest it didn't come from the plug/injector manufacturer's production tooling. Instead it could be some form of "batch identification" applied later.

PPS. The toyota EPC correctly lists 19850-68030 8.5V plugs for my July 1979 B-engined BJ40RV-KCQ

 

[lostmarbles]

Hmmmm. I'm getting carried away with glowplug stuff now. -- (Shame to have it all in this thread because Greg's title doesn't line up with "glowplug information" though.) And I hope he doesn't mind us hijacking it with stuff on B and 3B engines. But I think the stuff we're covering is useful to the owners of any diesel cruiser that uses glowplugs.

As I said before - I suspect Greg's 2H may have a glow system similar to my B engine. And my B needs "glow" for almost every start. I'm guessing this explains why I still suspect Greg has "glow plug problems" (confirmed in my mind by his finding a disintegrated glowplug tip) yet Rosco still suspects a fuel problem. (I would suspect a fuel problem too if I thought his engine should start more readily without needing "glow".)

Now - a further sidetrack -------

You mentioned my "black caps" (elsewhere) on top of my glowplugs Joe - Well I turned them up on my lathe from black nylon rod. I would have kept the ex-factory white thingies - Except the glowplug manufacturers reduced the sizing of the electrical terminal from M5x0.8 to M4x0.7 ---- So they no longer fitted.

Here a photo of an original ex-factory plug with the original white plastic thingie:



And here are the black caps I've got now:

 

[amaurer]

Joe sent me some emails offline: he had a source tell him he should be using 6V plugs in his 3B. The EPC agrees with this, saying 6V plugs for 12V trucks and 20.5V plugs for 24V truck.

I'd believe this, but for the fact that I've physically measured just about exactly 10.5V at the busbar... I'd blow up a 6V plug for sure.

I dunno.

 

[Henry James the 47th]

Tom wrote,

"And to really confuse matters (as if I'm not already confused enough) - my search of the EPC for the "ARL market" (which I am assuming covers Australia/NZ - Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here) gives the following for 12V 3B-powered BJ4# cruisers:

19850-68030 plugs for Aug 1980 to October 1982 - 6V rating!!!!

19850-68050 (substituted with 19850-68051) for Oct 1982 to October 1984 - 6V rating again!!!!

And another listing there for the European Market gives a 19850-68030 part number plug but says it has an 8.5V rating (implying that 2 plugs can have the same Toyota Part Number but differing voltage ratings - Unless the EPC has an error and has given the wrong part number for the earlier-models 6V plugs)
(Note- My 1979 BJ40 plugs are Toyota-Part-Number 19850-68030 and definitely have the 8.5V rating)

So hell - I'm just as confused as anyone else."

Not so confusing as it appears. The 6v. plugs are the lowest voltage plugs you will find specified for a Toyota 12v. glow system. The lower the voltage, the higher the resistance - these 6v plugs glow the hottest, and heat up very quickly pretty much instantly. If they were allowed to glow for long, they would fry. They are used in trucks with Superglow.

For 24v trucks with Superglow, the plugs are 14v. For 24v. trucks without Superglow, the plugs are 19v (early B engines) or, in all later set ups, 20.5v.

Since Superglow did not appear until late 1982, the listing for 6v. plugs for BJ4# Aug 1980 to October 1982 is wrong. The other listing is also confusing me, since i can't find any listing for 12v. BJ4# trucks that used 6v and therefore Superglow. It appears to me that the only BJ4# trucks with Superglow were 24v rigs. (with 14v. plugs)

For 2H engined trucks, there are a variety of glow plug options depending upon the overall set up and whether the truck is 12v or 24v. Tapage is fine with his 10.5 volt plugs, as that is the correct voltage on 12v HJ60s.

24v. versions of HJ60 and HJ61 use 14v plugs, that is, Superglow.

HJ47's had the 2H of course, but they employed the glow controller up until October of 1982 when the systems got more complicated, a timer was introduced, and soon after along came Superglow. The pre-Superglow hj47's employ the glow controller, which is pretty much like a 7th glow plug in the system - one you can watch directly (I'm with you Tom in liking that sort of set up above the others). The correct plug voltage for HJ47's with glow controller is 8.5v.

For Hj47's with Superglow, produced 10/82~10/84, the correct voltage plugs are 6v.

The controller is set up to glow fully red after 12~15 seconds in my truck's old style set up, which is the way it was set up originally in February 1982 when my truck rolled off the assembly line.

Earlier trucks, like the HJ45 (from 4/1972 until 10/74 - after that they go to 8.5v like the 47 series), BJ40, also had glow controllers. Some of these systems were a bit slower in actual use, typically taking 30~40 seconds to glow the controller coil red.

The glow plugs for the earlier HJ45's along with BJ40 up to (7/1975) are 8v.

If your controller coil doesn't completely glow red, then part of the wire coil is burned out and you would be best replacing the unit or the wire. The wire alone can be swapped out - its called "resistance wire". There are different thicknesses with different ratings. The wire on my controller is 0.4mm thick - the wires in controllers that employ the 30~40 second glow is noticeably thinner than the one designed to glow in 12~15 seconds.

Anyhow, if the controller is not working, or has been cut out of the system by someone not getting what it does and why, the 8.5v plugs used alone would burn too hot and would likely die prematurely. The glow controller shares part of the load, so it soaks up the excess juice, simply put. You need the controller operating correctly, or, you could abandon the controller unit altogether you need to go to 10.5v. plugs and change the glow relay to a 4-wire type. Then it would make sense to get a timer as well, and a glow indicator lamp. Pretty much a stock 60 series slow glow set up.


I hope the above ramble is at least clear as...

uh, mud...

 

[lostmarbles]

Joe sent me some emails offline: he had a source tell him he should be using 6V plugs in his 3B....

Joe and me have certainly been corresponding on this topic off-line over the last 24 hours or so Drew.

...The EPC agrees with this, saying 6V plugs for 12V trucks and 20.5V plugs for 24V truck.....

Have you independantly checked what it says for your BJ42 Drew?

.....I'd believe this, but for the fact that I've physically measured just about exactly 10.5V at the busbar... I'd blow up a 6V plug for sure. ....I dunno.

I'm not sure that what you measure at the busbar should match the plug voltage. (But I can see that "common sense" might lead one to conclude that it should.)

I've been assuming that a plugs "voltage" is simply a convenient way of "rating" it. (Perhaps "6Volts would cause a 6V plug to reach 700 oC in 1 minute " for instance - plucking figures from "the top of my head".) And I could be wrong but I believe superglow systems purposely supply their plugs with "excessive voltage" to speed up the "glow time" - And I think this makes your "faster-glow" systems more prone to "component failure" from "excessive glow durations" than my old slow system. (Edit - At this point I was still under the misunderstanding that Amaurer's BJ42 had "superglow" but I now understnad that this feature seems to be confined to later model BJ42 cruisers - 1983 and 1984 models)

But if Joe and yourself are using "higher voltage ratings" than are correct for your vehicles - then any glow plug failures at all would be highly unlikely (because of the "over-rating"). Furthermore - Your glow controllers would be handling less current - so they too would be less prone to failure.

The question is - Do you believe you should be running 6V plugs? (Edit 29July - I hadn't read HJ47/Chris's post 47 when I typed this post.
And are you prepared to risk putting your glow system under more stress for the possible gains of "better-dash-glow-indication" and "faster-glow-period/better-coldstart-running".

It would be nice is other kiwi/Aussi BJ42 owners could pipe up now and tell us what voltage rating their plugs are! (Perhaps regurgitating all this into a new thread might be in order to try to sort out the "BJ42 glow saga" once and for all?

 

[amaurer]

The biggest reason I'm skeptical about the 6V plugs is because the heating power is equal to the voltage times the glow current. If the glow system in the BJ42 is indeed 6V, then the "other" 6V needs to be dropped in the glow controller, meaning the little thingie in your dash is heating up with the same wattage as all four of your glow plugs combined (because of the 6V-6V split)!! This is incredibly wasteful; the same job could be done with half the current and without what would be a burning hot object in your dashboard...

That source could just be me again because Joe and me have certainly been corresponding on this topic off-line over the last 24 hours or so Drew.

Did that just come from me too - Or have you independantly fed your VIN details into the EPC to check what it says for your BJ42 Drew?

I verified it on my own.

I'm not sure that what you measure at the busbar should match the plug voltage. (But I can see that "common sense" might lead one to conclude that it should.)

I've been assuming that a plugs "voltage" is simply a convenient way of "rating" it. (Perhaps "6Volts would cause a 6V plug to reach 700 oC in 1 minute " for instance - plucking figures from "the top of my head".)

I agree this is possible. Allow me to hand-wave a bit:

When glowing I measure ~12V at the battery, and 10.5V at my plugs. The plug resistance is too low for me to measure, and the current is too high, so we'll have to do this symbolicly: If we say the glow current is "Ig" then the controller resistance is "1.5/Ig" and the plug resistance is "10.5/Ig".

I'm going to take a leap of faith and assume the 10.5V and 6V plugs are the same wattage, even though their operating voltage seems to be different. It can be argued if thats reasonable or not, but I think it is as the glow wattage should be an engine requirement. The power at the 10.5V plugs is 10.5*Ig, so in order maintain the same heating power with a plug designed for 6V, the current for the 6V plug would have to be 1.75*Ig, or a plug resistance of 3.42/Ig.

The point of all of this is, if I was to change my current glow plugs to the 6V flavor while keeping my glow controller the same, the total system resistance would be 4.92/Ig, or a total system current of 2.43*Ig... 2.43 times the current that my current system uses!

So, switching to a 6V plug creates the following:

Glow plug voltage: 8.31V, down from 10.5V
Glow plug heating power: 20.2*Ig Watts, up from 10.5*Ig.

Glow controller voltage: 3.64V, up from 1.5V
Glow controller heating: 8.8*Ig Watts, up from 1.5*Ig. (almost 6X increase )

The controller would heat up 6 times as fast as it does now. If mine heats up in 35 seconds, it'd now get there in 6 seconds... which sounds to me like the situation when Henry James the 45th blew up his controllers...

Bottom line: I don't think I'll try it.

 

[lostmarbles]

Wow. This is GREAT. Thankyou for lending a hand Chris.

.....The 6v. plugs are the lowest voltage plugs you will find specified for a Toyota 12v. glow system. - these 6v plugs glow the hottest, and heat up very quickly pretty much instantly. If they were allowed to glow for long, they would fry. They are used in trucks with Superglow. ...........................Since Superglow did not appear until late 1982, the listing for 6v. plugs for BJ4# Aug 1980 to October 1982 is wrong. ...

Well I guess that answers any question Joe and/or Drew may have had about trialing the 6V plugs (that I was c-a-u-t-i-o-u-s-l-y suggesting they may like to do). Your verdict is that it is indeed an error in the EPC! (And I've always found your advice to be "top-notch" Chris.)

Edit: This was the point where I finally saw that the 6V figure in the EPC was an error. - Yep - I'm pretty slow alright!!!

And the fact that my Toyota 19850-68030 plugs are definitely 8.5V supports this. (How could Toyota really give the same part number to two plugs that have different voltage ratings? If that 6V figure on the EPC is wrong - then they didn't!)

.....The lower the voltage, the higher the resistance.....

This is the only tiny bit of what you say that I dispute Chris.

If a plug with a lower "voltage rating" puts out more heat then it must use more power. Now Power (W) is found from the formula W = V x I "voltage-across-the-load" multiplied by "current-through-the-load". It is also found from the formula W = "V squared" divided by R (where R is the resistance of the load). So for the plug to develop more heat (use more power) it must have LOWER resistance (the way I see it) not HIGHER. (Higher wattage light bulbs have lower resistance in a similar way.)

.....The other listing is also confusing me, since i can't find any listing for 12v. BJ4# trucks that used 6v and therefore Superglow. It appears to me that the only BJ4# trucks with Superglow were 24v rigs. (with 14v. plugs)........

I admit I was assuming that Joe's and Drew's BJ42s were fitted with "superglow". But I guess if that was the case - they wouldn't have a dash-mounted coil-type glow indicator/controller? Is that the case Chris? (I'm very ignorant here.)

....If your controller coil doesn't completely glow red, then part of the wire coil is burned out and you would be best replacing the unit or the wire. The wire alone can be swapped out - its called "resistance wire". There are different thicknesses with different ratings. The wire on my controller is 0.4mm thick - the wires in controllers that employ the 30~40 second glow is noticeably thinner than the one designed to glow in 12~15 seconds.....

Great info again!

But how can "just part" of a glow controller coil be burnt out. Doesn't "burnt-out" imply "open-circuit". In which case no current would flow through the glowplug circuitry at all?

....Anyhow, if the controller is not working, or has been cut out of the system by someone not getting what it does and why, the 8.5v plugs used alone would burn too hot and would likely die prematurely. The glow controller shares part of the load, so it soaks up the excess juice, simply put. You need the controller operating correctly, or, you could abandon the controller unit altogether you need to go to 10.5v. plugs and change the glow relay to a 4-wire type. Then it would make sense to get a timer as well, and a glow indicator lamp. Pretty much a stock 60 series slow glow set up.....

Good stuff again!

Amaurer/Drew is using 10.5V plugs in his BJ42 and Joe is using 8.5V plugs in his BJ42 (both ex New Zealand and both are pre-Oct1982 as I understand). Assuming both vehicles are "standard exfactory" (and assuming I'm presenting their vehicle details accurately here) - in your opinion whose got the right plugs fitted? (I'm now picking that you'll say Joe is the only one that seems to be correct with his 8.5V plugs?)

 

[lostmarbles]

The biggest reason I'm skeptical about the 6V plugs is because ...........................................Bottom line: I don't think I'll try it.

I'm too lazy to go through all your calcs but at a cursory glance I see no reason at all to question your working/conclusions Drew.

And HJ47/Chris now confirms the EPC entry is an error anyway. So I shall immediately cease prodding Joe and yourself with the idea of "possibly experimenting with 6V plugs".

But

• Do you have a superglow system?
• How come Joe and yourself aren't using the same spec plugs? (Which one of you is right? )

(I know - It's none of my bloody business. But ya gotta make allowances for us foreigners. We're weird.)

 

[amaurer]

I'm too lazy to go through all your calcs but at a cursory glance I see no reason at all to question your working/conclusions Drew.

And HJ47/Chris now confirms the EPC entry is an error anyway. So I shall immediately cease prodding Joe and yourself with the idea of "possibly experimenting with 6V plugs".


But

• Do you have a superglow system?
• How come Joe and yourself aren't using the same spec plugs? (Which one of you is right? )

(I know - It's none of my bloody business. But ya gotta make allowances for us foreigners. We're weird.)

I'm interested in knowing too.

No, I don't have superglow (gee, darn). I didn't think BJ42's ever has superglow.

 

[Joe Egolf]

superglow

I don't have superglow either and I checked my plugs with my new Multimeter according to tom's procedure and they all "moved the needle" ie had a reading when tested.Tom ,you forgot to say Drew and I stole our cruisers from NZ in your last post ??? You are getting soft? I will test my glow coil with my buddy Ken tomorrow as it is pouring rain here ,sunday at 4:24 pm.

 

[lostmarbles]

I'm interested in knowing too. ..No, I don't have superglow (gee, darn). I didn't think BJ42's ever has superglow.

Actually --- No wonder I chose the name "lostmarbles" Drew. - We've had extended glowplug-wiring discussions in the past. In fact, the glow-wiring diagram I posted earlier in this thread originated mainly as a result of one that you had presented when we were discussing "unconnected terminals" on our glow plug relays. So deep-down (somewhere) I've always known you didn't have "superglow".

And I'm glad you don't resent my interference. (I like learning about cruiser things - sometimes even when the "learning" can't even be applied to my own vehicle. --- Not often though )

....you forgot to say Drew and I stole our cruisers from NZ in your last post ......

That's only because I added it in as an edit to an earlier post in this thread Joe. (I sometimes do underhanded/sneaky things like that.)

By the way, if you haven't been following his thread, HJ/Chris is undergoing "major lifestyle changes" at present (getting married in October, trapsing half across America to a new home, etc) so we are lucky he contributed here (and he may not be able to reply easily - if at all - to my latter questions).

A puzzling thing for me - and no doubt for both of you as well - is that you - Joe have the lower-voltage plugs, yet you - Drew are the one who (as I understand) sees you dash-coil glow more readily. I would expect it to be the other way around (since the lower voltage plugs have lower resistance and promote high current flow). (Edit 31 July - But this could be explained now because today Joe tells me - in a PM - that he has found one open-circuit/burntout glowplug.)

At least we've learned that the Toyota EPC is just like the Toyota workshop manuals - It CANNOT be taken as gospel.

And it seems like no BJ42 got "superglow" which I (at least) didn't know before. (Edit Sept 08 - Not true - I now understand some/all 1983 and 1984 BJ42 cruisers got superglow)


PS. Now i wonder how Greg is gettin on checking his other plugs!

 

[GregFrench]

Ok. I came home for a day before I had to leave again, and tested the voltage with my crappy little "Wal Mart Special" multimeter. The needle reads around 10v when the key is turned to Glow. Does this mean I need the 10.5v plugs?

Just read the bit about the glow controller not working causing more of a load on the plugs. This makes sense, and might be the cause of my problem. I will order the 8.5v plugs and a new glow controller and see how that works. If the plugs burn out again, I'll switch to 10.5v and see if that works.
Great thread!

 

[lostmarbles]

Ok. I came home for a day before I had to leave again, and tested the voltage with my ****py little "Wal Mart Special" multimeter....

So did you have the time to use that meter to find out how many other "burnt out" (open-circuited) plugs you have Greg? (It's a simple matter to do that with the busbar removed and with your multimeter on an "ohms setting" - even without removing them. And for such a test - a cheap/poor-quality meter is no less-effective than an expensive/high-quality one)

... The needle reads around 10v when the key is turned to Glow. Does this mean I need the 10.5v plugs?.......

(Here I'm assuming you're checking between the glowplug busbar and the earth/engineblock.)

But you had at least one burnt-out/open-circuited plug during this test didn't you Greg? If any of your plugs are burntout/open-circuited it will affect the overall current flow through your glow controller (dash indicator coil) which will change the voltage you measure at the busbar.

So the straight answer is -------- No. (And there are other reasons for saying "no" too.)

..Just read the bit about the glow controller not working causing more of a load on the plugs. .........

This is where using the "quote feature" is handy Greg. It took me a while to find out that this quote came from HJ47/Chris. I guess Chris means that if it isn't "glowing" then it won't be "dropping the voltage" much to the busbar (from the battery's 12 volts). - Which is entirely true - and explains why Drew/Amaurer is getting 10.5V at his busbar. His glow controller has dropped the battery voltage by only 1.5V. If he fitted 8.5V plugs (hint hint) - his glow controller would glow brighter and he'd probably measure 8.5V at his busbar.

(But I don't want to "put words in HJs mouth" - I'm just assuming this is what he was getting at.)

..... I will order the 8.5v plugs and a new glow controller and see how that works. If the plugs burn out again, I'll switch to 10.5v and see if that works.
Great thread!

Well. Above all - Caution is the most important thing. And

• 8.5V is what you've always been running
• 8.5V appears to be what the EPC says you should run
• HJ47 (who's a cruiser guru in my eyes) agrees

So I think the 8.5V is a wise/cautious choice Greg.

But why try to buy a new glow controller immediately? Are you sure your present one is knackered?

And - Was I right in assuming your vehicle is like mine in needing "glow" for almost every start? (Even when the engine is still quite warm. - Say 30 minutes after it was last running.) - Cos an answer to this of "No" could mean Rosco's suggestion that you also have a fuel problem could still be right.

 

[amaurer]

...and explains why Drew/Amaurer is getting 10.5V at his busbar. His glow controller has dropped the battery voltage by only 1.5V. If he fitted 8.5V plugs (hint hint) - his glow controller would glow brighter and he'd probably measure 8.5V at his busbar.

x2... I disagree only slightly about the numbers themselves, but Tom is right about the trend; using a low voltage rated plug will cause more voltage to be dropped by the controller, and the voltage seen at the plugs will fall. I don't expect that it will fall enough, however, to equal the voltage rating.

When I had a s***ty old battery I measured about 9.5V at my plugs. Switching to a bigger battery bumped that up to 10.5V. (This is due to the internal resistance of the battery, which drops some voltage too)

On my truck, I calculate that switching to a "6V" plug will cause the voltage at the plugs to fall to 8.3V. Similarly, I'd expect that using an "8.5V" plug would create actual plug voltages of 9.85V.

For your truck, measuring 10.0V on "10.5V" plug, I'd expect that you'll find about 9.38V on a 8.5V plug. I doubt that an extra 0.8V is going to blow up those plugs, in any case.

 

[lostmarbles]

x2... I disagree only slightly about the numbers themselves, but Tom is right about the trend; using a low voltage rated plug will cause more voltage to be dropped by the controller, and the voltage seen at the plugs will fall. I don't expect that it will fall enough, however, to equal the voltage rating.

When I had a ****ty old battery I measured about 9.5V at my plugs. Switching to a bigger battery bumped that up to 10.5V. (This is due to the internal resistance of the battery, which drops some voltage too)

On my truck, I calculate that switching to a "6V" plug will cause the voltage at the plugs to fall to 8.3V. Similarly, I'd expect that using an "8.5V" plug would create actual plug voltages of 9.85V.....

This is why I feel so "at ease" about talking to you and making suggestions to you Drew. You don't blindly follow what I say and instead you think everything out for yourself.

Sorry for prodding you and Joe towards 6V plugs - If you'd followed my prodding and done it - One/both of you could well have lost an expensive/irreplaceable glow controller! I blame the EPC for that .......... Yet I don't learn do I? I'm now prodding you towards 8.5V plugs . He he he. (Perhaps this is all part of a cruel plot to stop you people from stealing our kiwi cruisers?)

I think you have a sounder electrical knowledge than me and I see no reason at all to question your calculations. (They look fine - based on my limited electrical background.)

But wouldn't it be interesting to experiment to see how far off "your calculated reading" may be from "reality". - You gotta admit there are unknown variables here. For instance the resistance of the glow controller coil will actually change somewhat depending on how hot it is.

And where in the EPC does it even remotely suggest you should be running 10.5V plugs Drew? -At least the part number (19850-68030) for your vehicle on the EPC relates elsewhere (like on my plug packaging/boxes and on my plugs themselves) to 8.5V.

But then I know you have a lot on your plate at the moment - What with metal fragments in your oil. (- Sorry - I have no guesses as to what they're from and I do hope it isn't serious.)

And I do hope to post losts of stuff on my B-engine's compression readings, cylinder leakage readings, glow plug voltage measurements at some stage. (But don't hold your breath because Sandy is standing over me trying to get me back to "installing the new stove in the kitchen right now" etc etc. ----I know -----Instead - I'm sitting on the computer here )

For your truck, measuring 10.0V on "10.5V" plug, I'd expect that you'll find about 9.38V on a 8.5V plug. I doubt that an extra 0.8V is going to blow up those plugs, in any case.

But Greg already has 8.5V plugs fitted and at least one of them is stuffed. Each of those things individualy (not to mention COMBINED) makes a nonsense of your calcs this time Drew. (My fault I know - We're discussing 3 different vehicles in one thread - with many different glow plug ratings being discussed too.)


PS. It is my contention now that we should ALL be running the same plugs (Greg, Joe, Drew, and me) - That is 19850-68030 8.5V plugs - otherwise-known-as ---- HKT PT-104 plugs.

 

[amaurer]

But wouldn't it be interesting to experiment to see how far off "your calculated reading" may be from "reality". - You gotta admit there are unknown variables here. For instance the resistance of the glow controller coil will actually change somewhat depending on how hot it is.

Oh I totally agree! The biggest assumption (and I'm surprised no one called me on it) that I've made is that the 6, 8.5, and 10.5V plugs are all of equal wattage. On the one hand, this makes sense this they're all used in the same engine. Alternatively, however, why use different voltages if the heating capacity is the same? Toyota may very well have used different plugs based on the climate that the truck was sold in, or any number of [now] incomprehensible factors.

If my wattage guess is wrong then all my calculations are worth s***. I just like to banter.

Moreover, you're right that the resistance changes with temperature, on both the controller and plugs. The numbers I've been quoting are my maxima, in fact the voltage at the plug dropped by almost a volt after 25 seconds.

And where in the EPC does it even remotely suggest you should be running 10.5V plugs Drew? -At least the part number (19850-68030) for your vehicle on the EPC relates elsewhere (like on my plug packaging/boxes and on my plugs themselves) to 8.5V.

Well, um... surely you don't suggest that the previous owner of my pristine BJ42 could have done something incorrect??!?! Inconveivable!

But then I know you have a lot on your plate at the moment - What with metal fragments in your oil. (- Sorry - I have no guesses as to what they're from and I do hope it isn't serious.)

See above comment regarding the pristine condition of my engine. I'm sure those pieces were just extra.

PS. It is my contention that we should ALL be running the same plugs (Greg, Joe, Drew, and me) - That is 19850-68030 8.5V plugs - otherwise-known-as ---- HKT PT-104 plugs.

I want to agree, as my low-intensity glow controller has always been a disappointment to me. If there is a better glow to be had, I want it... I just don't want to blow up my controller, useless as it may be. Engineers are notoriously risk-adverse.

 

[lostmarbles]

.....I want to agree, as my low-intensity glow controller has always been a disappointment to me. If there is a better glow to be had, I want it... I just don't want to blow up my controller, useless as it may be. Engineers are notoriously risk-adverse....

Good reply Drew.

We don't even know whether your "previous-owner" may have fitted a different glow controller somewhere in your cruiser's life.